Been admitted off Syracuse for College of VPA today!
10 Likes
My kid was on six waitlists and has been admitted to four so far. We need quite a bit of aid. He received merit from three of the four, plus financial aid from all. No loci written to any.
8 Likes
Which schools?
1 Like
How many wait lists is your child on? I think the probability of getting off a waitlist is very dependent on the school. As @ProudDramaMama points out, her child got off three but not the top school on the list even though it was that school which received the most effort to show interest.
1 Like
Marist (was surprise waitlist - stats above range), Emerson, Syracuse (Maxwell), and Brandeis. The major applied to was either political science or political communications.
4 Likes
I neglected to mention that we are very much a need family. The school my son has been waiting on is need blind for admissions but need aware for the waitlist. Iāve seen several kids get admitted to that school, but I have yet to see one who was applying for need. So I can only conclude that that is a potential factor.
As far as his admits to the other schools, we found them to be varying degrees of confounding, TBH. Heās a wonderful kid and strong student butāwithout his sportāhe doesnāt bring anything āspecialā to the table. We are from a rarer state, but still New England; I donāt think it was geographical, but who knows?
I think another factor may be counselor intervention? My son goes to a large public school so this did not factor in for him. However, my daughter went to a very elite prep school with intensive college counselingāand I can only assume strong relationships with colleges. Their waitlist admits seem astronomical.
I think all of this is just another reminder that while we are technically the consumers, that is not how the system actually works. In most cases, there is very little transparency to the process. I suspect there IS ārhyme and reasonāābut only to the colleges.
7 Likes
It is likely that some collegesā waitlists are ranked. At colleges where admission is done by rank order of some admissions formula (e.g. GPA or GPA + SAT/ACT based) within majors or divisions, it is likely that the waitlist for each major or division at that college is ranked by that same admissions formula.
3 Likes
The mere fact that the CDS asks the question of whether a collegeās waitlist is ranked implies that some must rank. They donāt all answer this question, though.
5 Likes
Our neighbor got off the NC State waitlist for business this week (5/19). We only knew because the āNC State Boundā yard sign suddenly replaced the other college-bound yard sign, and then my son was able to confirm with her about the change.
5 Likes
Thanks for the thoughtful answer! Everything you say makes sense to me.
My kid goes to a very elite prep school, too, and I didnāt know until a day or two ago that some counselors sometimes call and advocate for kids on waitlists. So my daughter asked her counselor if she could do this for her, please please please, but got an opaque non-answer. (Unclear if they just arenāt at liberty to say? or if my kid as a full financial aid student is at the bottom of the priorities list? or the counselor has just moved on at this point?) Sheās got a very unusual life story of resilience and overcoming huge challenges, and has won one national award as well as a special writing honor at her boarding schoolā¦sheās a campus leader and two-sport varsity athleteā¦ but her outcomes this admissions cycle were excruciatingly brutal. Sheās the kid the colleges say they want in many regards. I just wish this one school sheās waiting on would accept her off the waitlist.
6 Likes
Doubt itās the financial aid issue ā I can only speculate (so not worth much!) but perhaps the prep school knows for some reason that it would be futile, so doesnāt want use up a favor with the AO. I donāt think thereās any harm in your daughter asking the college counselor why they wonāt advocate.
3 Likes
A few thoughts. You didnāt say if your D asked the counselor to call one school or all the schools where sheās on the waitlist (and you donāt have to answer here.) IMO itās ok to ask to do this for the top choice school, but not more.
Secondly, many colleges wonāt accept counselor advocacy calls due to equity/access issues (e.g., schools where students have dedicated college counselors would have an advantage.) Swarthmore and USC are examples of schools that wonāt accept counselor advocacy calls. Some HSs also have a policy where the counselors wonāt make advocacy calls.
Iām sorry to hear this, and hope she has committed to an option that is affordable and that she is excited about.
7 Likes
My guess is that the formula may be a complex algorithm. I doubt that academic stats are given great weight, since the waitlist applicants are already deemed qualified.
1 Like
(Sorry I donāt think I responded directly, but this is for @BonackerNY.)
I wonder if itās the same school, LOL. In any case, I will say that in general I think the admissions outcomes for āeliteā schools are getting worseāthe competition is just so intense and theyāre all competing against each other for the same spaces at the same 10-12 T20 schools.
I know my daughterās counselor worked very hard to encourage students to consider alternativesābecause they have wonderful things to offer but also because outcomes are so challengingābut the mindset is hard to change, especially when youāre immersed in it. My daughter graduated in 2023, but even back when she was in 8th grade we were told that the reason to attend was not to improve her chances of getting into a better college, but rather for the experience sheād have while there. Many outstanding peers of my daughter had āpoorā outcomes, and many have also since transferred āup.ā I use the quotes because I have mixed feelings about rankings, outdated ideas about āgoodā colleges, etc. All that being said, the kids who seemed to do the best were the ones who were irrefutably academically brilliant, sports recruits, and those who shined in some other very specific way.
As far as the counselorās non-answer, thatās unfortunate. At this point, the very best things we can do for these students stuck in limbo is be direct with themāespecially their trusted advocates! This is purely conjecture (but based on having watched the process pretty closely for a few years now), but I suspect they are limited in terms of how many students theyāll go to bat for and and why. I think the relationships with colleges and college admissions officers are regarded as quite precious so college counselors may be wary of overstepping or pulling too many strings in a way that bounces back on the school in the future. My guess is that when a string IS pulled, it has a high likelihood of working out for the studentāwhether because of the counselorās understanding of their strong chances, the weight of the counselorās pull, or a combination of both.
Iām sorry your daughter is struggling; I think her counselor owes her an honest response regardless.
5 Likes
Thanks again for another amazing reply!! I think youāre absolutely correct that the most prestigious schools can have almost a negative impact on kidsā outcomes ā ? I mean, unless the student is really at the top of the heap academically. Colleges donāt want to be privileging kids from academically privileged backgrounds, IMHO. And I understand that.
My kid was only waitlisted one place, so she was only asking for one phone call. Maybe the counselor did call and found out bad news; or maybe she already knew calling wasnāt worth it; or, who knows, maybe sheād already called this school on behalf of someone elseās kid!
My daughter may have fallen between the cracks, in that elements of her application were rockstar, but her sophomore/junior GPA had some issues (going from straight As in public school to an uphill battle back up to high honors at definitely one of the hardest high schools in America). Weāre genuinely low, low income and so my kid went hunting for financial-aid and applied a million places and was rejected a million placesā¦ my best guess is that the rockstar elements of application maybe caused the less-selective schools to āyield protectā her, while the highly selective schools cut her out because she isnāt op 10 percent of her class GPA-wise. She got into ONE college with enough financial aid to attend; I mean that literally, Iām not just a middle-income mom crying poor here. That one school she is left with isnāt a place she wanted to go, but a last-minute panic application.
She is really doing her best to be grateful and glad for what she does have. A bird in hand. āLearn to love the school that loves you.ā But man itās been rough.
So now sheās still on the waitlist at this one great collegeā¦ a place she loves ā¦ itās a great match ā¦ andā¦ I just donāt know. I keep wondering why some kids get multiple calls and some get none. My kid sent a great LOCI, honors updates, a āvery strongā recommendation from a teacher who used to teach at that collegeā¦ andā¦ I dunno ā¦
13 Likes
Thank you so much for the insights!!! (My kid was only waitlisted at one school, so was only looking for one call.)
2 Likes
I think the āwho knowsā might be somethingā¦ our school is pretty open about who they might have some sway with, and which schools where the relationship just isnāt there, but I could see a vague answer when they already used up the string they have to pull, specially given the timing. Still, itās disappointing. Our CC was upfront about the process as soon as results were out āif you really want to go there I will advocateā
2 Likes
I expect the reason why some kids are getting off multiple waitlists is because they put themselves on several waitlists so their odds may be better than a student hoping to hear back from one. Some schools also go to their waitlists a lot more than others as well so wondering why some kids get off multiple waitlists is sort of missing the mark because the rate of getting off a waitlist varies with the college just like the rate of admission varies with the college. I think @ProudDramaMama mentioned that her child also did not hear back from their top choice even with lociās sent in etc. You are basically in the same position as she is because even though her child has been accepted from the waitlist of multiple schools, there is a school that both your children rank as top that has not yet materialized though it still might as they havenāt closed the waitlist yet for either of your children unlike some schools. Unfortunately, getting off the waitlist at some schools is virtually impossible as there are so many kids that are waitlisted and sometimes very few spots. I think Berkeley last year only had 44 kids accepted off the waitlist but had offered over 15k waitlist spots so the rate of getting off can actually be a lot lower rate than the rate of admission. Given this, the best one can do is encourage the student to love the school they are slated to go to and find all the positives they look forward to. That way they can be excited about their college experience regardless of where they go and if they do get off the waitist then even better! Hoping both your child and @ProudDramaMamaās child hear good news from the schools you are still hoping to hear from!
6 Likes
I agree, itās certainly, logically true that you are gonna have a better chance of getting off a waitlist if you are on three or four, rather than just on one. But, still, why would some kids get off two or three out of those, say, four waitlists? Statistically? It still doesnāt add up to me. There are thousands of kids on these waitlists, but some kids hit bingo repeatedly. I think we must infer that despite the whole āthere IS NO LISTā and āitās not rankedā insistence by most colleges, they must indeed be internally ranking kids according to strength (academic strength that is recognizable across a variety of schools).
Anyway, my kid couldnāt āput herselfā on more than one waitlist ā¦ because she was only offered the one.
2 Likes
Well, many schools do assign quantitative measures to applications thru the reading process, and of course some have internally created GPAs, like the UCs and CSUs.
So, when going to the waitlist they might first pull apps of the students that fit their immediate need and pick from that pool. First cut may include factors like gender, major, and financial need if the FA budget is maxed out. Then from the set of apps that fit what they are looking for, I would expect many schools look at the various quantitative scores they gave the academic piece of the app followed by the scores of the other pieces of the app. Soā¦thatās not really ranked (because the entire waitlist pool isnāt stacked up in order of academic strength or re-calculated GPA), yet quantitative measures do come into play. I am sure there is significant variability in how schools choose waitlisted students.
5 Likes