<p>Also dmd77, someday I wish someone would explain to me why atheists care if others might think they’re going to hell, if they don’t believe in it themselves.</p>
<p>Well, I can understand that, HS. The common perception is that “bad” people go to Hell, so parents or others telling someone that they think that person is going to Hell is tantamount to saying you are a bad person/a failure/worthless/whatever.</p>
<p>Hereshoping: I have no idea what the answer to your question is: I was trying to address why the OP’s parents might be extremely concerned about the child’s failure to maintain their religious values.</p>
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<p>HH,</p>
<p>An analogy that comes to mind is Ann Coulter calling Edwards a “■■■■■■.” It may be untrue and he may not care if she thinks that, but it is still insulting and rude on most levels.</p>
<p>The anger and general attitude of the original poster reminds me a great deal of my dad. </p>
<p>He was also raised that going to church was just what you did and he grew to resent and hate it as a young man, largely because he saw professing Christians doing bad things (and I don’t personally know ANY Christians who claim perfection). Consequently, I never saw my dad set foot in a church until my wedding, and then it was with great reluctance.</p>
<p>Fast forward a good many years: my dad devleoped severe health issues and was in early stages of Alzheimer’s and had to move near us. He has always loved music and I am a music director, so we took him to a church service that was entirely musical. He asked after that to go again…I assumed he just did not understand (due to the Alzheimers) that this would be a normal service with preaching and everything. He still insisted.</p>
<p>My dad then went to church with us every single Sunday until he was no longer able to do so. We had many conversations which made it clear to me that he had always maintained his faith…even while disdaining church attendance and being quite vocal to me when I was growning up about his absolute refusal to go to a church. In his later years he found his faith to be a comfort and I felt blessed to at last have my dad with me in church.</p>
<p>So I guess I am pretty much in the opposite situation from the OP: I was raised by parents who refused to take me to church and I always wanted that sort of family. I have to believe that the parents of the OP (imperfect though we all are) are hurting and sad for their child. They may not have done the right thing to encourage her in her faith, but they did try, IMO.</p>
<p>HH, I know I am not going to hell, however, I find it annoying and hurtful that many believe I will, seeing me as a sinner, a bad person, evil or whatever for not having the same faith, and feeling the need to “fix” me</p>
<p>It is like judging without knowing, and that is not really what Jesus taught, from my recollection</p>
<p>As for the OP, the isses are much deeper than going to church a couple of times a year- there is a bit of hatred there, maybe justified, maybe not, but the few hours on a Sunday are just a symptom, not the cause</p>
<p>CGM, see the thing is nobody is (or should be!) about judging anyone else when it comes to faith issues. And the judgemental attitudes you speak of kept me away from organized religion (take after my dad!) for many years.</p>
<p>Then I began to understand that, though attempts to persuade others to your beliefs are, more often than not, at best counterproductive, they usually come from a true desire to “help” someone you care about. Put it this way: if I had a great treasure or a wonderful secret gift that could benefit many, wouldn’t it be awful to keep it to myself? I truly believe that is the motivation behind most people’s (usually awkward and often, unfortunately, dowright misplaced…) attempts to coerce someone into a belief system like their own.</p>
<p>It is hard to be single in your 20’s, your only ties are to parents with whom you are never on equal footing- you can be the most competent adult until you go home and get treated like a child…people tend to revert to old habits/behaviors, adult children are expected to do as their parents do; a stranger would not face the same. Not all parents are ideal- I remember my sister telling me her husband laid down the law regarding our father when he visited, at that time I had no husband to rescue me and assert that my rules went in my home; it is worse when you visit your parents’ home. I would not accuse someone of immaturity because they are in conflict over their parents, sometimes it’s a no win situation.</p>
<p>I didn’t call him immature because he is in conflict with his parents; happens all the time. I called him immature because he refuses to deal with the conflict in a mature and rational manner.</p>
<p>“CGM, see the thing is nobody is (or should be!) about judging anyone else when it comes to faith issues.”</p>
<p>Oh please, people judge other people on all kinds of issues all the time. What kind of school did you go to? How much money do you make? Do you kids behave? Do your dogs behave? What colors do you wear? How tight are your clothes? Do you wear too much makeup? What church do you worship at? How often? Just look at any presidential election!</p>
<p>to the OP … </p>
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<p>I haven’t read the whole string but I believe I can understand your position as I faced the same situation in HS with virtually the same progression as you have faced. For me, I felt like a hypocrit if I went to my family’s church while not believing in what was being done and said … that is how my religious beliefs evolved and tore at me when I attended church. So I felt horrible about myself if I went (for being a hypocrit) and horrible about myself if I didn’t go (for being a terrible kid) … it is not fun. </p>
<p>In general I tried to go along with my parent’s wishes until I went off to college … and this pretty much worked except for 2 situations … and this is one of those situations. My religious beliefs had evolved to a point where I was sure of my position and, in this case, decided I would deal with the consequences of disapppointing my parents to be true to my beliefs.</p>
<p>I am not advocating not going … but I am advocating picking your spots to rebel against your parents carefully and only when/if the situation really chews at the core of who you believe you are (or are becoming). If this is one of those situation then maybe the issue should be forced; if not maybe you can hang on to college.</p>
<p>3togo- great post! Succinct and it fit my situation at that age.</p>
<p>dmd77: I did not say that people do not judge others. I said, in regards to faith issues in general and specifically in regards to Christianity, judgment of others’ faith or “spiritual status”, if you will, is not up to anyone else.</p>
<p>There have been several on this thread who have complained about Christians judging them and my point is that Christians are not supposed to do that. This is not to say that it can happen (and, unfortunately does), but that this behavior is not part of Christian doctrine.</p>
<p>Churchmusicmom: true, Christianity does advocate “judge not, lest we be judged” but I believe the idea is more honored in the breach.</p>
<p>OP, this athiest wishes she could have just one more chance to go to church with my beloved, and very devout, grandmother. My presence at her side meant so much to her precisely because she believed and she knew I didn’t. </p>
<p>Go to Easter/Xmas service with your folks. You’ll feel good about it in another 20,30, or 40 years… Trust me on this.</p>
<p>One more chance often turns into 100… You won’t feel good about suffering through yet another boring church event. Going to church is the price you currently have to pay to be able to enjoy getting together with the relatives. Hopefully you can work out that compromise for the next church holiday. All the maturity in the world will not help you deal with the immmaturity of your parents in a satisfactory manner. I wouldn’t worry about needing to be “mature”. Eventually you will be able to minimize the importance of family and therefore all the anxiety it produces. It is hard to be different than your parents, they are still in the process of letting go of you and allowing you to be your own person. As you are still in the same process. It does get better.</p>
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<p>Not sure when I have ever seen a sadder prediction than this.</p>
<p>In order to be independent you can’t let your parents views remain guilt producing- compare to a small child for whom siblings and parents are the world, fast forward to a married couple- neither spouse can let their siblings or parents take precedence over their present life with a person not related to those people. A single individual also has to prioritize for themselves, not the wishes of their childhood nuclear family. It’s a good, mature thing. It’s about putting things in perspective, letting go of the past and creating the adult relationships. It is often harder for parents to realize their unmarried children have a life separate from them. Think about two different meanings of family- nuclear and all the other relations; and think about expectations regarding each- the nuclear family is most important, even if it is a family of one, hence the lessening of importance of others, even if you don’t have spouse and kids as a reason to not do things. The OP is still young enough that I’m not sure her parents accord her adult status in choosing her family activities. So much for not being longwinded.</p>
<p>My personal experience is much like yours, BlahDeBlah, so I can certainly sympathize with you. I grew up in a Southern Baptist family and I was in church every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night whether I wanted to be there or not. I had no choice. I attended a private Christian school where we had a Bible class every single day. I can’t say I didn’t enjoy the occasional service or youth group activity, but when I left for college, I was finally able to control my own life. I slept late on Sunday mornings, caught up on homework Sunday nights and stayed involved in many activities that kept me busy throughout the rest of the week. Today I am 45-years-old, have been married for 22 years and have an 18-year-old daughter; yet my mother still asks, “Honey, have y’all found a church yet?” Her life revolves around church, and if that’s what she wants, I’m on board with that … for her. I am totally disinterested. When I visit my parents on weekends, I leave to go home when they leave for church on Sunday mornings. Personally, I don’t do church on Easter or Christmas, either, as IMHO, it is hypocritical to go then if I am not going to go during the year. For the first 18 years of my life, religion was drilled into my head … I believed what I was told to believe. Today, I don’t know what I believe and that’s okay with me. I know I lead a nice, decent life and that’s good enough for me. I do hope your parents will respect your wishes. If you’re not totally opposed to attending church with them on special occasions, I say go for it … if you’re comfortable … at least for now. Once you’re out and truly on your own, do your own thing and be happy.</p>
<p>I realize, WIS, that I was taking your statement somewhat out of context when I quoted it and of course I understand that children grow up and make lives on their own. However, I do maintain it would be the height of sadness to me personally if my family and their importance to me (and I speak of my own parents, siblings, and extended family as well as my own children) were to be “minimized” so that I could somehow perceive myself as more independent. I don’t think that individuals should have to alienate their family, even given dramatic differences in values and traditions, in order to remain true to themselves. </p>
<p>Of course, neither I nor anyone else here (except the OP) knows exactly what is going on with that particular family. I can only speak of my own.</p>