A question about religious beliefs & church-going

Parent Cafe
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<p>That’s pretty much exactly how I feel about it. If I don’t go, I’m the selfish immature daughter that breaks her parents’ hearts so she can sleep in a bit, and if I do go, I’m a doormat and I have no will of my own and I always do exactly what everyone else wants me to do regardless of how I feel about it because I’m afraid of confrontation and I can’t stand up for myself. I wish I could make my parents not care whether or not I go, or at least understand the reasons why I don’t want to go, but I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. I imagine my mother will be calling me as well I’m 45 and married and live 1,000 miles away, asking me if I’ve found a church yet. She already asks me if it would make a difference if I would go to such-and-such church that has younger members, or a ‘contemporary’ service, or electric blue paint on the walls, or whatever…completely missing the point. Maybe they’re missing the point willfully. I don’t know.</p>

<p>Still not going this year. I’ll be hanging around the kitchen making dinner instead, so we can eat in the mid-afternoon sometime and I can get back to school at a decent hour, otherwise we’d be eating at normal dinner time and I wouldn’t get back to school until night. I think that setup sounds perfectly fair to me. I went to church solely to please my parents for years (without them ever bothering to care how I felt about it), and I’ve decided to take a bit of a break, and I don’t see why I should continue when it is always about their wishes and how they feel, and never a thought to how I feel about it. Seems very selfish of them, to me. Maybe I’ll decide to please them and go next year, or maybe I’ll live too far away…who knows. </p>

<p>Few other notes…I don’t particularly care if someone thinks I’m going to hell or not, I was just rather insulted and surprised that my parents would actually tell me that I am, because it is essentially like telling me that I’m evil. If they actually told me they thought all atheists were evil, horrible people I wouldn’t be surprised, though. For instance, we know a couple that recently broke up their engagement over religious differences, and my mother always describes it as the evil, uncaring atheist who broke the good little Christian girl’s heart. I am female, I am still in college but graduating this year, and I don’t get to choose whether I go home for Easter or not…I tried going home on Saturday once specifically to avoid the argument and mess, and that resulted my father going and taking the license plates off of my car so I couldn’t drive it anywhere. Don’t particularly want to find out what they’d do if I called them up and told them I just wasn’t coming home, but it would probably involve more seizing of what’s supposed to be my property and/or breaking things.</p>

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<p>Okay now you’re making it sound as if your parents are crazy. You’re 22 and you’re graduating in a couple of months? So do what they want until May, then find a job and an apartment and get the heck out of there. (Start looking now.)</p>

<p>Once you’re out, just lie to avoid religious events and religious discussions. (No consequences to that for you–in terms of hell, I mean. :))</p>

<p>Frankly, I wonder if you just want to use this thread to find support for your atheism, with a little Christian-bashing thrown in. :)</p>

<p>Also, it’s perfectly normal and even healthy to question the way you’ve been raised at your age. If you’re beating yourself up about it and feeling guilty about it on some level–don’t. You have a right to believe whatever you want. Just get out of the house as soon as you can.</p>

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<p>BDB - I’ll apologize upfront, that I have not carefully read this entire thread. To be honest, I got bored. BDB, you are simply trying to pick a fight. Your parents are who they are & apparently church is incredibly important to them. Your rejection of even Easter service is a rejection of them, their beliefs & their lifestyle. </p>

<p>You want to be an atheist? Fine, be one. Just don’t expect your mother to embrace you with open arms and don’t expect her to welcome you home for a holiday, because to HER attending church is part of it. ANd puh-leeze, don’t act like the martyr, pouting at home as you pretend to be preparing dinner (which is at an inconvenient time for YOU?!?! Puh-leeze. Try coordinating numerous in-law’s schedules as well as work schedules of any family member is a nurse or police officer & has the holiday shift)</p>

<p>Trust me, if you happily went to church with your parents, she might still find something to fight about - your choice of study, your choice of career, your choice of a potential spouse - or the lack of all the previous choices. </p>

<p>Have you tried being a respectful, mature adult in your response, or do you resort to the screaming 12 yr old who was once dragged to church? Apolite “thank you, but I don’t feel comfortable attending right now.” Is a mature response to your mother’s request/demand for church attendance. Ask her to pray for you. Agree that you understand tha is how she feels…but don’t say anything about how you feel. Don’t get emotional, don’t try to argue your case, don’t give her anything to fight with.</p>

<p>Me? I grew up Catholic, was dragged many a morning to Mass as a teen, lied many a time as a 20-something. I am currently a practicing Catholic & married to a Lutheran. When we visit his parents, WE GO TO CHURCH WITH THEM. For the simple reason that it makes his mother happy. To her it means her son loves her, she did a wonderful job raising him & everyone else in their church can see it. We happen to have 3 daughters, and I made darn sure when they were little they wore the frilliest holiday dresses to Christmas & Easter services just so Grandma could show off. I also get to drag my children to TWO different churchs on the holidays…It gets a little tricky, trying to attend BOTH Catholic & Lutheran services, trying to explain to my kids & my IL’s that they’re NOT the same.</p>

<p>In a nutshell, I guess I am trying to say that part of growing up IS having differences of opinions with your parents (& your ILs) but dealing with it respectfully - whether they respect your opinion or not!</p>

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<p>I am in my 50s and I still go to church with my parents when I visit them and it is for one reason only - they are in their 80s and I enjoy pleasing them more than I enjoy whatever else I could be doing for those few hours. I never go to church otherwise and neither does my teenage daughter, but she has learned a hymn to sing this Easter Sunday at their church. She sees it as a gift to them. She is 17 and has never complained about going to church with them and, believe me, she would rather sleep in too. Why does she go when there is nothing for her there personally? I asked her once if she minded going, and she said she doesn’t because the alternative is that the next time that she is in church with them it will be one of their funerals. When I am sitting in that church at those funerals in the all too near future, I will cherish every Sunday that I begrudgedly went there with them. It will be a source of comfort to me that they found so much comfort there. Hypocritical - hell yes, but I’ll take it because I don’t like the alternative.</p>

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<p>This is known as “all or nothing” or “catastrophic” thinking. It is dysfunctional. It doesn’t help you grow as a person. Regardless of the specifics, I guarantee that there are shades of gray here that you aren’t considering. This kind of thought can easily lead to generalized anxiety symptoms. I don’t know what to recommend, if anything, but I can say for sure that you’d be happier if you didn’t see things as such dramatic choices between Scylla and Charybdis.</p>

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<p>^^ … for me this is sometimes true and sometimes false. When I was about 25 I went through a personal development exercise that really helped me understand my conflict with my Mom over religion in HS. I was asked to rank about 20 values … all good values … but to apply my ranking to them. My #1 value was honesty … ultimately I found this so powerful I asked my Mom to do the same and her #1 value was family (BTW my #2 value was family). </p>

<p>If someone is conflicted across numerous issues I’d agree with you … if someone is conflicted about their parent asking them to bend on their #1 value … I do not find it dysfunctional at all. I mentioned earlier as I finished up HS I tried to find the grey and follow my parents wishes while I lived at home … this almost always worked … but there were 2 instances where I couldn’t bend because doing so would run counter to my core person. While some might call that dysfunctional I guess that leads me to this question … isn’t there a line your parents could ask yo uto cross that you would not? For me going to church is over that line … for others it may be gray or minor or pleasing your parents … for me it was one of the most hypocritical things I could do at the time. Your mileage may vary.</p>

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<p>Am I the only one on this forum who likes to go to church?</p>

<p>I’m heavily involved in my church–notably I’m in the choir and am there for every event, not just the Sunday morning services (I’ve got a two hour Maunday Thursday one coming up). I also participate in a Bible study at my school which is loosely connected to the church. Besides the choir, I also am in the instrumental ensemble and the bell choir. Since I have no music department at my school it gives me a chance to still participate in music (which I felt was good stress relief) plus lets me use it to serve God. I’ve also met some great people in the church and they have helped me in my faith.</p>

<p>In the choir we have a term for a group of church members. They are called “C and E’s”. These are the folks who come only on Christmas and Easter. A person who is a “C and E” comes because he thinks it is the “proper thing to do”, not because he actually cares about the religious significance holiday. The guy is the one who cares more about egg dye or mistletoe than about Jesus–aka putting the world before the Word. That’s a no-no in practically any church (not just Christian churches either; other religions would probably frown against the Ramadan Fairy or something placing a higher priority over the actual purpose of the holiday–does a Ramadan Fairy even exist?).</p>

<p>What puzzles me is why so many people defy church and even religion between ages 17-30. I know a guy who used to be a devout Catholic and then decided one day he was going to abandon it and try to make up his own philosophies. I know another guy who was heavily involved and decided religion was “pointless”. He is now a “C and E” mostly because his parents expect him to go then. I even know someone who only is Catholic in the sense that she can use it to look innocent by saying she’s a “good little Catholic girl” even though she too has sort of become a “C and E” (though she attends regularly when not at school).</p>

<p>Why do people just abandon their faith when they go to college?!?</p>

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<p>To the above poster: </p>

<p>People learn to think for themselves and outgrow the religions and dogmas preached. Some discover the limits of any/every religion, the bigotry, the boredom… You enjoy and fit in with your social club and probably have been thoroughly brainwashed to believe what you have been told is correct. Another group rebels, questions and returns to the comforts of belonging to a Sunday social club. Being in your choir puts you in the “in” group, you would never allow people like me who can’t carry a tune but love to sing to join your group. Also, you would never allow a person like me to point out all the errors in your Bible study interpretations. Your minister would not appreciate my pointing out his/her errors, also. Sounds harsh, but be thankful there are honest people who refuse to be hypocrites and attend churches they disagree with. If there were only one correct way to believe in a god there would not be so many different contradictory religions. Some of us dislike the ways man defines god and places limits on the god… Look at the mirror image, flip to the other side of the coin, step outside your box, examine from the opposing viewpoint…your church fills your needs, it does not fill everyone’s. Your parents chose your church because it made them feel good, you go because it makes you feel good. </p>

<p>Was that a long enough sermon for you? PS, when it comes to matters of faith/belief logic and rational thought fall by the wayside. Using the above coin flip et al, I am just as disturbed by your thinking as you are by mine… Study the sociology of religion someday.</p>

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<p>Wis75, you said:

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<p>I must tell you that I welcome into my choir with open arms ANYONE who desires to participate in the music ministry at my church. There are several who, in fact, are not very “good” singers and quite often are not on pitch. Fact is, though, that every single Sunday when we sing, things go way better than they should, given our individual limitiations. We work hard to prepare and then see an opportunity to let God work through us and the results are truly amazing.</p>

<p>And as for “allowing” someone to “point out errors in bible studies”, any church and pastor would WELCOME someone with honest questions. Debates and discussions serve to further define what we know and believe about our faith. You are pretty arrogant, though, to take the attitude that you could point out errors with regards to anyone’s faith. Just as I would be arrogant to say I could point out errors in anyone’s faith that is different than mine. </p>

<p>Our church welcomes with open arms anyone who would come to learn and to worship. People should not come to church thinking they already have all the answers…it is NOT a social club, but a place of worship and learning and which seeks to serve others in the community who have needs.</p>

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<p>cmm … as mentioned earlier late teens early twenties is when a lot of people decide for themselves if the beliefs/options/examples their parents have shown them work for them or do not. This string has focussed on people turning away from religion at this time … but, to a degree, I believe that focus is driven by the OP who is in that situation. This is also a time when some young adults move towards religion/spirituality that their parents have shunned. For example, a lot of born again Christians are making religion a larger part of their life than they were shown in their upbringing. In my family both my sister and I moved away from my parents religious teachings … I moved away from religion … my sister moved towards a more community and spiritual based form of practice than my parents … we both moved from my parents model; one away and one closer to God.</p>

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I must say that statement sounds a bit judgmental to me. Perhaps as you look down on that person from the choir loft, a thought like “hey, so-and-so is here … let’s make him feel really welcome” instead of “he’s only thinking about eggs or missletoe” would be more of an incentive for “C and E’s” to come to church. Just a thought.</p>

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<p>Splashmom, I abosolutely agree with you about making people feel welcomed.</p>

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<p>Same with love.</p>

<p>I find that lacking the grace of one, the self-styled ‘genius’ tends to lack the grace of the other. Neither of the two transcendent impulses, love and faith, endures such a bloviating blowhard, gladly.</p>

<p>There are errors in all things human, it is all too common and commonplace; but blessed is the blowhard, lacking the common decency and possessed of a heap of “honesty,” he will gladly point the finger and chortle in the expectant face of love and the solemn hopes of others.</p>

<p>And yet the “rational libertine,” liberated from the traditions, customs and beliefs of all that lived and died before them, tends to be possessed of more ‘scatological’ dogma than a mullah or rabbi: and in this, of course, they will be no hypocrite.</p>

<p>To the op,
Your parents have issues, we all do, from your screed above I would presume spiritual maturity to be one of them; yours, however, involve common and simple maturity. Thankfully, you have plenty of years ahead of you to grow out of your jejune morass. I would not, however, put good money on that one.</p>

<p>As a poster above noted, one should hope your honesty does not preclude your visiting the last church service your parents attend in this life.</p>

<p>.</p>

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<p>Family–bless 'em. Can’t live with em and can’t live without em.</p>

<p>Interesting thread. Many of us have had similar situations with extended family or friends. Religion, uniquely, seems to arouse strong feelings among people who love each other and know how to push each other’s buttons.</p>

<p>Having known a good many people like the OP’s parents (or mom in particular) I would sooner put money on <em>her</em> future maturity than on her parents’ eventual “spiritual maturity.” They seem set in their ways and very sure of having truth in a box, whereas the OP is young and will probably grow in many ways as soon as she is able to be on her own.</p>

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<p>I have another reason that kids abandon going to church when they’re in college - they would rather sleep in. Like many teenagers and twenty somethings my son prefers to stay up until the early hours and sleep in. He can’t do that during the week do to work or classes so reasons that Saturday and Sunday are catch-up-on-sleep days. Once you start doing that it’s harder to make a point of going to church, especially if it means driving somewhere by yourself. The one church of our religion in his area is a ten minute drive. I’m hoping that he will go this Sunday for Easter. Not going to church doesn’t mean that he does not believe. It means that he doesn’t go to church. The church is just a building but faith is something inside of you. If it wasn’t for the fact that I teach Sunday School, I would choose to sleep in a few more Sundays too.</p>

<p>To the op, I would certainly not try to talk my kids into going to church with me if they were not willing, I know I would prefer a flat out explanation for their reasons instead of excuses. Maybe your church has a late service, but for me I can easily get a ham dinner on the table by 3:00 even after getting home from Church at noon. My guess is that your Mom is going to tell you the same thing, especially with you helping her. Thanksgiving and turkey, stuffing, that’s another story. Ham dinner is easy.</p>

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<p>Kathiep, almost all Churches that attract college students have afternoon services avaiable, which are by far the most heavily attended.</p>

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<p>corranged, that makes sense, but as you can see: <a href=“http://web.roanoke.edu/x1385.xml[/url]”>http://web.roanoke.edu/x1385.xml&lt;/a&gt; the majority of services at churches closest to my son’s college is 11:00 am. In our town (and we are the closest town to at least one college) the churches also don’t have afternoon services. I like that idea though. I can’t say I ever investigated the times of church services when we visited any college to say what’s normal. Are you speaking from personal experience in your particular area perhaps?</p>

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<p>Yeah, my D’s college church has services at 5pm, followed by a pot-luck dinner. Free non-college food…a bonus.</p>

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<p>OP and other younger people reading/responding to this thread- as you can see there are a lot of good points made and many diverse opinions. Every person is unique and what works for each individual is different. By now you have realized there is no magic formula for being a mature adult- legal ages of 18 or 21 do not mean you have arrived, or should have arrived, at being the person you will be the rest of your life. BTW, no age does…</p>

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<p>Kathiep, this is from what I know of service times at The University of Chicago, Notre Dame, and random other schools I’ve heard about. I know that at Chicago and ND, the most popular services tend to be the 5:00 ones. I think it’s definitely a good idea. I know that service times are conventionally in the morning, but I can’t think of a reason why a church wouldn’t serve its members by holding a Mass at the time most convenient for the people who want to go.</p>