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<p>Nothing’s sexier than poop and puke! Oh baby, show me that hot vomit! Yeah yeah!</p>
<p>CF: What I find interesting is that you (and yes, you personally, in view of what you had to say previously about sororities and fraternities) have chosen to be the village crier about Greeks. In no way do I think that the behavior represented here is acceptable. But I do think that you have an unhealthy obsession with Greeks. There are people everywhere who behave badly. Perhaps you view your job in life as the bearer or bad behavior. Something tells me however that you dislike people of certain groups that you considered “elitist” or “privileged”. </p>
<p>JHS: Again, yes some hits will have to be taken by those of any group, be it fraternal or social or political. I find it fascinating (in a sort of looking at a python sort of way) that there are people make it their hobby to find the bad behavior and news in a certain group of people, be they Greek, Zionists, old or young people, or pet lovers.</p>
<p>Having read the reports now, I have to say if I was the owner of any of those buildings, I would be hauling sorority asses into small claims court and suing them for full damages.</p>
<p>And speaking of a disregard for personal rights, I noticed in one of the articles it mentioned that frat boys were trying to tear the clothes/steal the money of the female bartender.</p>
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<p>This is an excellent point. (It must be, because it has occurred to me a number of times! 
) When I was in college and through my early 30s, we drank, we did drugs, and we had sex. We NEVER relieved ourselves in public, had sex in public, or threw up all over a building. Heck, at parties people were still modest enough to retire to the bathroom to do coke! I am truly astounded at the level of binge drinking that goes on now, and at the behavior that is apparently accepted.</p>
<p>You’re right, ellebud. I don’t like sororities and fraternities. I think many are bastions of spoiled, nasty, privileged, entitled drunks, as they were at my school. But I didn’t make up these three stories from Ohio, and those spoiled, nasty, privileged, entitled drunks from Ohio are doing nothing to disprove my beliefs.</p>
<p>I absolutely never said that you made up those horrific stories. Unfortunately (and here we agree to a point) there are far too many stories of people (all ages and backgrounds) who do things that the majority of us find appalling and socially, if not morally, unacceptable. </p>
<p>But we part ways when we blame the Greek system (and you are assuming that all participants are/were Greeks) for bad behavior. These kids were pigs before these incidents. And without intervention, they will continue to be scum.</p>
<p>A relative of mine has a sorority girl at CU. She was in the leadership of the sorority and helped with the parties for a year. She told her mother that she lived in fear that she would be held legally responsible for the “going ons” at these parties. It was routine that she called ambulances and taxis for the drunken kids. Her Chapter was one of the houses mentioned in this Thread. </p>
<p>I have a two kids: one was in the Greek system and one choose not to pledge. That being said, I do believe that this behavior is common now and has been winked and tolerated way way too much. It shows entitlement, selfish and bad behavior.</p>
<p>So when a group of sorority women get together and do something good, like fundraising for a worthwhile cause, that’s because of the sorority and they otherwise would not have done it, but when they get together and misbehave as these Ohio women did, it has nothing to do with their group?</p>
<p>thats funny, because the pi beta phis are the tamest sorority at the college in my town</p>
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<p>No, it reflects the caliber of the women in sorority #1 (who would have gone and done something worthwhile regardless – the sorority just gives them the “structure” to do so, but without it, they might have joined or formed another philanthropic group) and the caliber of the women in sorority #2 (who sound like a bunch of piggish drunks, and would be piggish drunks if they’d just gone out in a group to a bar or restaurant, except you wouldn’t have known about it because it wasn’t a specific organization exhibiting bad behavior).</p>
<p>^^^
What Pizzagirl said.</p>
<p>According to CF, specific ethnicity is necessary for wrong doing to follow:</p>
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<p>Whatever that is, sorghum, it appears very out of context. If you have a point to make to CF, I’m sure you can make it so that the rest of us can understand it too.</p>
<p>I don’t know … I’m thinking about all those women behaving badly I’ve seen on my television set recently, or read about on Television Without Pity. The Bridezillas, Real Housewives, groupies who grasp after has-beens, etc. - a majority of whom couldn’t have gotten into any college I know of, let alone a sorority. I was not Greek and can’t say I admire the selection process. But I can’t buy the argument that young women in Greek organizations are predisposed to disgusting behavior, any more than women who are not in Greek organizations.</p>
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<p>Or he’s a Phillies fan…zing</p>
<p>:::ducks to avoid incoming fire:::</p>
<p>Hey, don’t distort the facts, garland! That Phillies fan was NOT a spoiled, entitled, snotty frat member who didn’t care where he was vomiting! He cared! He stuck his finger down his throat and aimed! (He happened to hit a little girl, too, but that was just unavoidable collateral damage, just like with drone attacks in northwestern Pakistan.) That’s why he was being charged with criminal (i.e., intentional) assault. </p>
<p>Furthermore he, at least, apologized once he sobered up. At his sentencing hearing. And he is going to face a little more personal responsibility than forgoing next year’s formal. So he represents a somewhat different class of belligerent, sociopathic lowlife, who seems morally superior to Ohio sorority girls in almost every respect. (Which is a stunning indication of how low those girls have gotten, since he is just stomach-turning.)</p>
<p>By the way, I don’t think we can get away with making the distinction Pizzagirl made earlier between the philanthropic-project sorority girls and the puke-and-destroy sorority girls. Obviously, there isn’t complete identity between the two groups, but I have to assume that there is substantial, substantial overlap. I’m sure that these three Miami sororities have lots of good works to their credit.</p>
<p>JHS–you are right! The headline itself made it clear that much, um, thought was involved here. I stand totally corrected! The ick factor kept me from reading too closely.</p>
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<p>This is a rather simplistic view, I think. Although there are “overall” good and bad people, it’s not like humans are split along a dichotomy of “disrespectful alcohol sopped vomiter vs angelic, philanthropic paragon.” The people slopping alcohol over dance floors and having sex in the kitchen sink could also have been doing charity. I mean, really, you think that these frats/sororities just HAPPENED to choose so many people who were ALREADY this disrespectful? I don’t see how that’s possible, unless the current members put “must be willing to defecate in public” on their applications.</p>
<p>Wealth and social status might play a minor role, but I don’t think they’re the main culprit either.</p>
<p>The danger of sororities and fraternities is . . . the very “fraternity” that makes them attractive. Everyone is considered a good friend, a “brother”, which makes everyone feel safe. Good in some instances, not good when it comes to binge drinking (due to risk of alcohol poisoning if nothing else.) Then there is the peer pressure to conform to the group, not rock the boat, not “rat out” your brothers/sisters. We saw that on the thread about the kids arrest for cocaine, didn’t we? The very first reaction from a lot of people was that the kid who turned them in had “betrayed” his fraternity “brothers” and that his actions were mean and unjustified. </p>
<p>Well, maybe they were, maybe they were. But I’ll say this . . . I’ll bet a lot of kids would react the exact same way to a fraternity brother being turned in for date rape, for vandalism, for theft . . . as long as the victim was someone outside the fraternity. Because, when all your friends belong to such a close-knit group, you risk losing everything, all of them, if you “turn traitor”.</p>
<p>When I see the incidents like the ones in the linked news articles, yeah, my first reaction is “what a bunch of horrible, disrespectful kids.” But they didn’t become disrespectful in a vaccuum. They’re feeding off each other, they’re encouraging each other, they’re egging each other on. What would’ve been horrifying to them a few years ago (really, do you think these girls grew up peeing in sinks?) is now normal and acceptable because their group of friends, who matter to them far more than some museum director or lake cabin owner or the rest of society, act like it is. Anyone who thinks their child “couldn’t” end up being one of those unruly louts is fooling themselves. Yes, they could. It takes incredible strength to break out of group dynamics and most people can’t.</p>
<p>I’m not saying other college students are angels; sure, there are non-Greek members who vomit, are disrespectful, binge drink, etc. It’s kind of “expected” these days, which is just sad. But they have more ebb and flow and no Official Group of Brotherly Solidarity to affiliate to, which gives them far more leeway and less peer pressure when it comes to quietly dropping the friends/cliques who they feel are going “too far.”</p>
<p>Seems to me that boys ib the dorm were just as bad as the frats</p>
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<p>That was Cardinal Fang’s opening post. I think his gratuitous reference to ‘white people’ is racist and he should have been called on it long ago. If, say, some black or some Asian people do something obnoxious, I don’t think a “way to go, black [Asian] people” would be allowed to pass without comment. Even allowing the assumption that all involved in the reported incident were in fact ‘white’.</p>