<p>I actually saw more than one racist/potentially anti-religious comment on this thread. I ignored them because of the context of stupidity or incendiary possibilities. But here goes: CF assumes that all Greeks are white/wealthy/entitled. Depending on the campus this is either totally untrue or a gradation of truth. In addition there are all Black, Asian and Latino GLOs. If one didn’t have pictures and/or the name of a GLO, there are some who assume that everyone is white. That is, in and of itself, racist.</p>
<p>As for some who dislike GLOs because when they were in college…what 25plus years ago…they weren’t wanted, didn’t fit in, didn’t get a bid…Get over it. You are supposed to be an adult, capable of change and evolution. </p>
<p>…but then again, perhaps the grudge goes back to high school where you didn’t get voted into student government.</p>
<p>College binge drinking is, on average, a white activity; colleges with fewer whites also have less binge drinking. Sorority members and fraternity members are richer, whiter and more prone to binge drinking than other college students.</p>
<p>Some whiter-than-sour-cream sorority girls drunkenly vandalizing an Underground Railroad Museum brings white privilege to mind. A group of black college students who vandalized a museum would have been considerably more likely to be arrested.</p>
<p>I make no such assumption. Sororities and fraternities are whiter and richer than average. This is a fact. Sorority members and fraternity members binge drink more than other students, either because sororities and fraternities preferentially select for binge drinkers, or because sororities and fraternities encourage binge drinking, or a combination of those two. That is also a fact.</p>
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<p>You know nothing of my life. Keep your armchair psychology to yourself.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, you insist upon making generalizations based on statistics carefully selected to support your own preconceptions and prejudices.</p>
<p>You statement that these kids were “entitled” has no factual support. Your statement that they were “spoiled” has no factual support. Your statement that they were “privileged” has no factual support. It is not even clear how many of them were actually from Ohio. I think we will all agree that their behavior, at least, was indeed “nasty.”</p>
<p>As far as I can see, you are hoist on your own petard when someone chooses to make assumptions about YOU based on your behavior here.</p>
<p>And BTW, my son, who is a fraternity member, is not spoiled, nasty, privileged, or entitled. I assume that like many college students and many of us adults he may drink too much occasionally, but I would not call him “a drunk.” And I’m getting g-d sick and tired of your gratuitous insults.</p>
<p>That is a fact, sans citation(s) from credible sources, does not make something a fact. “That is a fact” sans citations puts your contention rather in line with the parental, “It is true because I say so.”</p>
<p>Human beings act in inappropriate ways, drink too much, and destroy public property: Ever hear of jails? They are not filled merely with privileged Greeks (yes, I can hear CF saying that is because rich parents bought out the system.)</p>
<p>I will be happy to keep my socalled armchair psychology to myself save for the fact that the observation is very much based in truth. If one is the same person 25 years after any event…sorry issues.</p>
<p>Greek life is not for everyone, for many reasons that can include other interests, time commitments, and yes, lack of funds for extras. But, since the majority of our nation’s leaders were Greek (government and business) there might be something there of worth.</p>
<p>Black college students had there own out of control party for a decade before the city of Atlanta ended it. Partying out of control is not just a white Greek thing.</p>
<p>So how do I explain a Yalie who never joined a fraternity but managed to get drunk and fool around with multiple partners at a scale apparently far higher than I, as a bona fide sorority girl, was able to? I was drunk maybe twice in college, never to any point of vomiting or needing people to attend to me, and was only with two men, both of whom were serious, long-standing boyfriends (one of whom I married). Right back atcha, JHS :-)</p>
<p>You and I must have different interpretations of the word entitled, Consolation. For me, a student who thinks he or she is allowed to vomit and pee on museum artifacts, who screeches and cries when responsible adults try to remove him or her from a venue because he/she is drunk and out of control, who berates and attacks a bus driver for refusing to allow drunk, vomiting passengers on his bus, who uses a sink for a toilet, who smashes someone else’s vases and knocks over someone else’s statue, is exhibiting the very art and essence of entitled: entitled not to follow normal social rules that other, lesser people must follow.</p>
<p>This survey article about college drinking (a survey article is an article that summarizes the current state of knowledge in a field) reports that students in fraternities/sororities take up binge drinking more than other students, and binge more than other students:</p>
<p>Consolation and Pizzagirl: I believe that CF belongs to the group who holds the thought process of, “I know what I know, don’t confuse me with the facts.”</p>
<p>CF: As far as your cites go, do you read them? Students living off campus away from their parents AND …well, that covers just about all college age kids. I think that random cites from articles that were printed when? with what bias? with what intent? have little credibility. </p>
<p>I think that deflection is a wonderful thing: It keeps one from answering directly, understanding their own prejudices, and keeping their prejudices intact without the need for self examination. None of us has a perfect life. Our children, as did we, will or won’t succeed based on their effort and the challenges that are presented to them. But to make oneself feel better about their past, their children’s future(s) by denigrating a part of life that one either doesn’t understand nor is a part of, is just wrong.</p>
<p>I have never pretended to be opposed to college kids getting drunk or fooling around. If anything, one of the things I have learned in my old age is that there are actual college kids who don’t like to get drunk and fool around – I didn’t used to know any of that sort. The behavior in these recent stories goes well beyond that! My friends and I tried our best not to vomit on other people’s things, and were successful close to 100% of the time, and we never urinated on historical artifacts, threatened bus drivers, or got it on before an audience. And I’m talking about boys! </p>
<p>There is something horrifying about these stories of sorority debauchery out of Miami (Ohio) that really suggests some sort of collective zombiehood. I start with the assumption that these are probably really nice, social, totally presentable, intelligent girls – girls I would probably like if I met them. Girls I would have a hard time distinguishing from the young, upright (except with the serious and long-standing) Pizzagirl. Girls who are right there on the front lines of the Panhellenic Blood Drive or whatever. I don’t believe that there are Good Sororities and Evil Sororities out there, or good kids and evil kids. Overwhelmingly, there are good kids. But some social structure is making it possible for these good kids to do some evil things, and right now their sorority membership is looking like a natural candidate.</p>
<p>Does that make all sororities evil? Of course not! Do I doubt the goody-goodiness of Pizzagirl’s sorority? Only a little. My sister was a Tri-Delt at the same time, and picked up some nasty habits it took her a decade or so to shake. But on the whole, it was a positive thing for her. (And this particular sister happens to be maybe a little evil, so for all I know Tri-Delt restrained her.)</p>
<p>(To clear up one nasty implication, though: While I admit to fooling around with more than two people in college, none of whom could be called a serious and long-standing girlfriend except for one I had broken up with more than a year before, I was never, ever, anything even remotely like a player. I wanted to be In Love, and usually was. If they were not serious and long-standing girlfriends it was because I was too immature to be a serious and long-standing boyfriend, but most of the time we were both doing our best to move in that direction. The only blemish on my Nice Guy status was the ex-girlfriend, but I was 18, and I learned from the experience and didn’t repeat it.)</p>
<p>I cited recent papers from the Harvard School of Public Health’s College Alcohol Study. As far as I can tell, this is the most highly regarded scholarship in the field.</p>
<p>I think that’s a fair point that the social structure impacts it somehow, but plenty of college age kids manage to get drunk and do obnoxious things as well without formalized structures around them. </p>
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<p>I didn’t say goody-goody. Of course some girls drank to excess, and slept around, and whatever. Besides, LINYMOM was far wilder than I was. She’ll have to supply you with the juicier stories.</p>
<p>Wow! back in my sorority days - several decades ago - we were reprimanded by some sort of official sorority manners police for smoking, eating or drinking while walking. Obviously this was long before Starbucks. </p>
<p>Ok, so I read About Cas. Sorry, but this is an extremely limited study with the last of the studies conducted in 2001. In addition, the study included 140 schools, not withstanding the question of whether each school was included for every year of study.</p>
<p>The headline of the study didn’t read, "Binge Drinking and the Greek System:, but rather it seems, a general question about binge drinking, which is, in any case not a good thing.</p>
<p>The cretins who caused the damage deserve to be punished, just as a high school dropout, senator, CEO, or a movie star must be held accountable. But, again, to assume that all the party goers were: Greek, binge drinking, and personally responsible is wrong.</p>
<p>But I do find that some people, who didn’t get the golden ticket whether it was to a school, GLO, job, or a perceived life that they feel/felt that they deserve banal and limited. And, when one sticks their neck out and makes sweeping assumptions about the lives of a group of people (all rich, spoiled white kids in the OP’s estimation) the readers and responders will armchair quarterback the emotional, intellectual, and factual material provided. Sorry.</p>
<p>How odd to call set of surveys of 14,000 students at 140 colleges in 40 different states extremely limited. Such surveys are generally regarded as extremely large. And note that the heaviest drinking schools were re-surveyed in 2005.</p>
<p>I’m with CF here. The CAS is a pretty reputable source of data, and it is not unusual for large studies like this to have some lag time in reporting outcomes. This is not my area of expertise, but I believe that the initial findings from these studies were the impetus for increases in alcohol education and awareness programs on campuses. Speaking for my own college sorority, they have had such a program in place since the mid- to late-90’s, I believe. </p>
<p>My son will be a college freshman this fall and must take an on-line alcohol awareness course before school starts. Never had that back in my day.</p>
<p>A number of us have commented that in our wilder days we and our contemporaries indulged in booze, drugs, and sex, and never engaged in the disgusting behaviors described in the original article.</p>
<p>It is also true that high school kids are now regularly treated for alcohol poisoning. High school students are not members of fraternities and sororities.</p>
<p>Maybe it all dates back to the invention of jello shots, I dunno. What I DO know is that a) all fraternity chapters and all fraternity members are not the same, b) tremendous amounts of binge drinking go on at schools with no Greek organizations at all, and b) CF gives evidence of having some kind of personal stake in this that I do not understand.</p>
<p>And by the way, CF, any time you want to apologize for vilifying my kid and the kids of many other posters, just go right ahead.</p>
<p>Has college life changed since the 70s and the 80s? Yes. Has college life changed in 9 years? Probably. Let’s add all this to the data and maybe, for better or worse, we will have a different set of kids to draw conclusions about.</p>
<p>And yes, CF has never revealed what and why the hatred for GLOs and everything about them. And CF, we know that you are perfect, as is your judgement. Too bad that in your world that you can’t apologize for defaming our children. I don’t recall anyone defaming, judging or slandering your child(ren).</p>
<p>Based upon her original post and other threads, I agree that CF is likely a racist and has an abnormal pre-occupation with Greek-hating. I suggest she seek professional help.</p>
<p>Regarding the behavior cited: I have witnessed nearly identical behavior in high school students in our community. I once threw a birthday party for my D, invitation only (to mostly high-achieving students, as those were the ones she generally found herself associated with), with a warning that parents would be present and no alcohol was permitted. A fight broke out among the boys, a bottle of Capt. Morgan was smashed in our foyer, a boy whom I ordered off our property all but said the f-word to me, someone threw food on my ceiling and the outside of my house, and the next morning I found cans and bottles strewn throughout the neighborhood which I picked up.</p>
<p>For some reason, it did not shock me. I think we underestimate young peoples’ needs to act like animals. Seriously. However, it should be planned in a way that no one else’s property is damaged in the process and safety is protected.</p>
<p>When I was in college in the 70s, binge drinking, vomiting, public urination, sex in the closet and vandalism occurred with memorable frequency.</p>