What happens if your children marry in your faith but the grandchildren develop philosophical/religious beliefs that are different from yours? Are you going to pressure them to adopt your beliefs? What happens if they don’t? I used to know a couple who ignored the existence of their grandchildren due to religious differences between them and their children, and I don’t consider that sort of behavior a ringing endorsement for their religion.
I can understand teaching our children about our religious beliefs. But aren’t adult children ever allowed to fully own their sense of self, even if it means they might embrace ideals different than our own? It’s interesting to me that we can condemn helicoptering in one thread but seriously discuss controlling our children’s philisophical beliefs to the point of influencing their choice of life partner in another.
Where does this “allow” come from? I don’t recall anyone saying anything about allowing or not allowing a marriage or controlling their adult children, just expressing personal disappointment/hurt/upset. Those aren’t the same things. Having feelings or opinions about the actions and choices of people we are close to is actually normal and part of being close. It’s when one adult takes action against the wishes of another that there is a problem.
I would like to circle back to the OP, whose point of view I understand much better now. @rockvillemom, your angst about the future of your lineage is real, to you, no matter what any of the rest of us say. But what I hope you have heard here is that it is important for you to also examine this from the side of the person marrying into your family. Any “wedge” you allow your own views to create with girlfriends, your future DIL’s, their families, or your grandkids is hurtful to them and will cause you to be cast in a different light than if you allow yourself to embrace whatever outcome results from a mixed relationship or marriage. The conflict you are feeling in your heart is yours alone to resolve, and should therefore not be placed upon your son or the person your son loves (or will love), and certainly not upon the grandchildren. It is good that you are examining your feelings, and hopefully this thread has helped. Perhaps an open family discussion, not directed towards your S’s current relationship, would be enlightening and beneficial, as I feel this one has been for many of us.
If a grandparent wants his/her grandchildren to be raised in their faith (or to maybe choose it later as an adult), the worst thing he/she can do is be grumpy, rude, or unsupportive while the grandchildren are growing up. What kind of model for your faith are you if you’re not a loving Grand?
Throughout all this, what strikes me is how precious these “identities” are to many, but how many then adapt them (the rules, expectations, customs, tenets, etc,) to their own personal preferences, anyway, sometimes even diluting them. In theory, at least, if you want to be a purist, you don’t do this.
How many of you truly strictly adhere? I sincerely don’t want to point fingers, but remember the time I babysat for a big family going to church on Saturday night, so the adults could play golf on Sunday. I was younger and confused how that works, when they consider Sunday the Sabbath.
I plan to be the best mother-in-law and the best grandparent I can possibly be - regardless of the religious situation. I believe I have a good relationship with the current gf - although it is quite low-key right now.
@Embracethemess - I agree with you. I think I will keep these feelings to myself. It’s not my place to interject my angst on this into my son 's relationship. Especially when they are far from marriage.
It’s been helpful to air this out and see the wide range of responses. Thank you for listening and sharing your experiences.
Well written, post #242, embracethemess. I also agree with what you wrote and I also agree with rockville mom on being the best mother-in-law & future grandparent we can be for our children. The same way we try to be the best mother to them as well. It certainly is a learning process and as far as I know parenthood doesn’t come with a manual or a learner’s permit!
I’m from a different country where many people are not religious. (or rather enjoy different religious celebrations on a whim because they are fun and/or pretty or just because.)
It was quite a culture shock when I came to America. It’s such a big scientifically advanced country I didn’t expect that so many people are very religious!! It just didn’t match up in my mind - hugely advanced technology, medicine and science… and the world of God. Very very interesting.
^^Lookingforward —"throughout all this, what strikes me is how precious these “identities are to many”
I think you hit the nail on the head. The attachment to identity is so human, and it should be precious. It is unique in its power to influence our view of other people who don’t share the same identity. If your identity has been attacked or was once targeted for extinction, it brings the conversation to a whole other level. I don’t know what’s its like to have the burden of extending my culture/religion to the next generation, and to feel unfaithful or un-filial if I fail to do so. I cannot imagine having the heft of history on my shoulders, which is what I think many Jews must feel. I apologize if others have viewed my other posts as lacking appreciation for that distinction. I think I would feel very sad about assimilation if genocide was a part of my people’s past. It would seem that assimilation is self-inflicted genocide – one that you have power to prevent by your choices. I can understand the passions behind some of the posts on this thread.
I’m fortunate that I can embrace assimilation as a positive. I think of my flexible identity as a uniquely American phenomenon, something I cherish. To borrow from Barack Obama, no where else on earth is my story even possible. My daughter struggles with being biracial in part because she does not look Asian and strangers rarely suspect it. In this respect, its like being a white Jew physically blending in with WASPs. Her brother on the other hand, does look Asian and doesn’t need to call attention to it. My daughter overcompensates by trying to be more Asian than her brother, bless her heart. She’s a member of the Daughters of the American Revolution via her dad’s side of the family, as is her cousin who is also bi-racial. My ex-husband likes to joke that his family came to America as Swiss and then became Chinese, a twist on the “I think I’m turning Japanese.” LOL. We used to live in the race-sensitive south so this joke drew interesting reactions.
I think every generation gets less and less overtly prejudiced in all sorts of ways.
@chocchipcookie
It is extremely bigoted. Race is a social construct. The color of your skin does not determine your character or your views. So to say that skin color determines “likemindedness” is extremely bigoted. Is the black child adopted into a white home less “likeminded” than the white child adopted into a black home? Once you start getting into what makes someone “likeminded” you begin to toe the line of being racist and prejudiced. That is very literally taking the color of someone’s skin and judging and assuming the content of their character, their views, their political leanings, their habits, and their religion when you know nothing about them.
Who are you to assume what someone upbringing is based on the color of their skin? You. Do. Not. Know. That by definition is stereotyping.
There are many people of color that I in no way relate to when they speak of experiences associated with being of color. There are white people out there who I relate to better than some people of color. Most differences in “likemindedness” change along socioeconomic lines rather than social constructed race lines. Most of the time, I can better relate to an upper middle class white person from a wealthy suburb over a low income minority person from the projects.
This is especially personal for me as someone who has only been involved with white men. Despite having different levels of pigmentation in our skin, we came from similar backgrounds and were likeminded.
Despite being of color and from a liberal state, I find myself on the political right when it comes to a lot of issues.
It’s cliché, but don’t judge a book by its cover. You are assuming you know someone’s mind, personality, character, upbringing, and background by simply looking at their skin and the reality is, there is no way you could know that.
This even applies to religion. There is tremendous variation in the beliefs of people who claim to subscribe to the same religion. You will never know that unless you dig deeper and actually get to know the person. There are people out there who call themselves Christians and yet support homosexuality. There are people who call themselves Jewish and yet don’t observe the rules that come with eating and cooking Kosher. There are Muslim women who do not cover their faces. Whether it’s religion or race, you will not know the person unless you sit down and get to know the person and throw out your assumptions.
Many Jewish leaders worry about intermarriage decreasing the Jewish population further and that the biggest threat to our very existence is now the actions/decisions of the current generation.
This viewpoint seems very heavy with guilt for assimilation - but there is truth in it also.
" claim to subscribe to the same religion. You will never know that unless you dig deeper and actually get to know the person. There are people out there who call themselves Christians and yet support homosexuality. There are people who call themselves Jewish and yet don’t observe the rules that com"
What point do you think you are making about Christians and homosexuality? It is certainly not the same point as Jewish people breaking dietary laws, so what is it?
I never ever would have taken such an extreme position. Not allowing the daughter’s non-Jewish spouse in their home sounds crazy to me. The responses make so much sense and I hope this man softened his approach.
I went back to re-read my posts. Not one post that I wrote involved any discussion about color of skin except to say that my first cousin married a Black man, and what a nice guy he is. And he’s not Jewish. That’s it! I hope you feel better after your rant, because I in no way even discussed color or race as my issue or my reason, along with Rockville mom’s to begin this thread. You may want to explore your own insecurities about that subject that you feel so passionate about.
Rockville mom: Great link to Forward’s article, thanks, I printed it out to read through it a few times! The article makes some great points. Better to embrace your children’s spouses than to alienate. And to teach them about your customs, holidays and family traditions.
It’s literally just saying that you want your children to find likeminded spouses. No more, no less. I don’t mean to speak for chocchipcookie but she obviously didn’t mean “immediately judge everyone, everyone stick to dating within your race, and also, all black people are _____.” Obviously the point is that once the getting-to-know-you has begun and un-likeminded-ness is established, THEN there may be concern. I grew up as a conservative Jew while my boyfriend is orthodox and there are definitely some issues where we have differing beliefs. Also, we are different races - it DOES come with tensions. His “skin pigment” DOES come with its own sets of values and beliefs and customs. Not everyone with his race, but with him, it IS true.
Really, this is not a thread about race and religion? Please refer to the title of the thread for clarification on this and the article in the OP.
Second, there are no insecurities. You said religion AND people. Not just religion, so it was necessary for me to address both to highlight that you were condoning bigotry with regards to your view on interracial and interreligion relationships.
