RVM, my mom and I have had our ups and downs over our lives, but one thing I have always thought she did well was to find ways that she could live with to include herself. I don’t know if this would be possible for you, but when my sister’s kids were christened, there was a party and my mom asked if she could be involved in the planning of the party and went with my sister to visit restaurants, choose the menus, and mom actually ended up being the one who provided the cakes for these occasions. It was a way for her to be included without religion. For some Christian celebrations, the party can be very inclusive and non religious.
She believes that it would be worse for her grandchildren to be non-Jews than to be Jews. That’s what “inferior” means: worse.
To be clear, I think it’s perfectly understandable that she would feel that way. She wants to preserve her religious culture because she thinks it’s worth preserving. If she had had the misfortune to have been born into a cult of axe murderers, she wouldn’t want that culture to be preserved in her grandchildren, but because she was born into what she regards as a good and valuable culture, she wants to preserve it.
I gotta say, though, if you are worrying about what religion your grandchildren will be when your sons marry their perfectly nice girlfriends, count your blessings. And realize that in bringing up your children in your religion, you did your part, and now you don’t get a say in the grandchildren that you will be so lucky to have.
@Embracethemess Many of my friends at my D’s bat mitzvahs were not Jewish. As a matter of fact, a few were honored with candles when my D’s were lighting the candles on their bat mitzvah cakes. A bat mitzvah is a celebration of a Jewish girl becoming an adult. The celebration focuses on the bat mitzvah girl’s beliefs, not those attending the ceremony.
I have attended Christenings, wakes, wedding that included masses and many multicultural holiday celebrations over the years. But still I do not feel comfortable attending Christmas or Easter dinners on the actual days of Christmas or Easter. I feel that my attendance on the day of the actual religious holiday has more significance than attending a holiday party on another day. I would view partaking in a celebration on the actual holiday as participating in a celebration of the birth of / or the sacrifice of Christ. So I would prefer to not attend, since it does not align with my personal beliefs.
RVM is not saying that another religion is worse than hers. Maybe that it would be worse for her if her grandchildren weren’t Jewish, but again, that’s not the same thing.
I look very forward to seeing if some of the posters here ever complain about or want a say in anything their adult children do. Because either that’s never allowed or it’s not allowed if what the parent opines isn’t quite the thing.
I think it’s clear RVM is exploring this and listening. Some are asking her to give up notions that, in themselves, are part of her identity, including continuity. That’s formidable and would be for any of us. It’s asking a person to shift her own core.
Some people do have instant transformations. “Oh, yeah, of course.” This is deeper. We can give her that space, with respect. We could all learn from this.
I truly appreciate just about all of the responses, most if which have been mature and thoughtful. It gives me plenty to consider.
For those of you who are hung up on the idea that I feel Judaism is superior to all other religions ( which is emphatically not my position) feel free to make a substitution and see if that changes your mindset.
Maybe I am a devout Catholic, and want my children to marry practicing Catholics. Maybe my family is Indian and I want my children to marry those of Indian descent and carry on those customs and practices. It’s more about the issue of continuity and shared heritage than anything else.
This.
I’m actually not all that observant. I was raised in a Kosher household, but do not keep Kosher myself. We celebrate the major holidays, enjoy Jewish food (brisket anyone?), appreciate Jewish humor and music. It highlights many aspects of my life. Being Jewish, regardless of how observant I might or might not be, is at the core of my very being. It is a huge part of my identity. It is my touchstone. And that’s really all I want to pass down to my grandchildren. I realize I can find flexibility on the details - it’s the sense of identity and connection that I value most and that is where I need to focus my efforts.
Not that it really matters, but I didn’t grow up that observant - I actually took on a lot more after I started dating my boyfriend, and now my parents are concerned I’m with someone too Jewish. So it goes!
Fine. Here’s the substitution I’ll make. Instead of worrying about the religion of your potential grandchildren, imagine that you realize that your sons will never date, never marry, never live independently, never give you grandchildren at all. If non-Jewish grandchildren are “heartbreaking,” then what is no daughters-in-law and no grandchildren?
CardinalFang, CC is a self-selecting group of VERY involved parents. There are threads of parents worryig about pretty much everything under the sun from what is, charitably, nonsense, to life-altering crises and everything in between. My suspicion is that rockvillemom is proactively worrying and that when the time comes, Everyone will act with love and it all will be fine. Never perfect, because what is? But really fine. It just amuses me in a seriously twisted way for any parent on CC to be told to butt out because, this is the CC parents group and the closest any of us get to butting out is to discuss our kids here. Every. Single. Day. For years and years.
I have no idea. For anyone who has a problem or a concern in their life, there is always someone with a more serious issue. Is that how you approach anyone who shares their pain with you? Is it a competition? I have a friend who lost his son at age 10 in a freak accident. I certainly have the sensitivity to not share this conversation with him, knowing he will never see his son grow up or marry. But if I want to air out my concern and have a conversation, that is my perogative. Lots of wedding related threads on cc, with issues that might seem trivial to others but are very important to those involved. Do you post on all of those as well to point out to them that their concerns are silly because they could have offspring who are unable to marry and live independently? I’m just not sure what that accomplishes.
I’d like to see some perspective. Yes, having a non-Jewish grandchild would be disappointing to you, and I understand your (hypothetical) disappointment. But “heartbreaking”?
In any case, I’m good. Issue explored, opinions noted. I have a better sense of what is most important. I want our Jewish heritage to be a positive factor in my sons’ lives and in their families - not a divisive one. If I keep that in mind when situations arise, I think I will make good decisions.
Thank you all.
She’s entitled to her feelings, whatever they may be. In this instance, they are quite strong. I don’t think that “heartbreaking” is an inappropriate word. It seems to be an accurate description of how she feels.
Parents have so much less control over outcomes than we frequently like to believe.
Sometimes it helps me to put it all in perspective, and I think CF and other parents posting here sometimes help me to do that.
Rockvillemom: I admire you trying to figure all this out in such a thoughtful and loving manner.
Good point. We can’t control our initial emotional reactions. We can only control what we do, not what we feel initially.
Well, speaking of disappointed, I am disappointed at the turn this thread has taken since last evening. It was a cordial, respectful discussion of a sensitive issue. I was a bit surprised to see it bulldozed.
Which is why it’s great to have an outlet apart from our families to hash things out. I am confident that I will do the same as my D’s wedding comes closer, and I am sorry if it offends anyone but I will be looking for the perspective of mothers, more than fathers, children or guests.
I agree that everyone is entitled to their feelings, but it’s when you start treating grandkids differently because of decisions that are outside of their control that I personally draw a line.
Kids aren’t stupid. They know when grandma views them as not as perfect as their cousins. They notice when grandma isn’t at their events but they are at their cousins’. Many kids will internalize that and think they did something to upset. They blame themselves.
If your children worry that grandkids of a different religion are going to be a source of friction and divisiveness in the family, they may choose not to have children at all. I doubt if that is what the OP wants.