Advice for a High School Freshman

I really want to go to a good college I’m particularly interested in going in Quant and double majoring in CS+Finance in UPenn. I am looking for some advice on what else I should do. Here are my stats so far and what I will be doing in the summer that I have planned out.

So currently I have all A’s and believe that I have a good shot of getting a WGPA of 4.6 or above.

I am doing some ECS

  • Science Olympiad (Good shot of making Captain my Junior year)
  • Computer Science Club (Good shot of becoming an officer IDK abt becoming President)
  • Math League (Good Shot of becoming president my junior year)
  • Investment Club (Good shot of becoming an officer IDK abt becoming President)
  • Robotics Club
  • STEM Academy

Awards:

  • AIME Qualifier (Was a point off from JMO so hopefully will make next year)
  • USACO Gold Qualifier

This summer:

  • I am doing a Marketing Internship in June
  • I am also doing a Real estate investor internship in July
  • I am also studying for SAT as I am probably going to take it in December.
  • I will try to get PVSA

Next Summer:

  • I hope to get into prestigious summer programs such as PROMYS and ROSS (Don’t necessarily only have to be math-related)

Junior year Summer:

  • I want to join a research program in my state which is the new jersey governor’s school research program. I will publish a paper in the program. I think I have a very good shot of getting in.

Other Things I will probably do:

  • F=ma/USNCO/USABO prep so I can take in 10th grade

I would really appreciate any advice I can get! BTW if this makes a difference I am an Asian Male from a middle income family and my school usually only gets around 3 ivy league admissions each year.

A finance major will not help for Quant. And Wharton is not the first place quant firms look.

I suggest you do some kind of community service and/or sport.

Alternatively, you could go all in on math/CS to increase your long term odds of getting into quant or similar even if it reduces your odds of getting into an Ivy.

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Seeing how few quant jobs there are, and how impossibly hard they are to get, let’s say you can’t get one … what would the “next job on the list” be for you?

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Tagging @hebegebe, our quant expert.
(Thanks in advance).

Just curious since I know nothing about quant, which universities should this student be considering? Where are some of the first places quant firms will look? Thanks.

I strongly suggest really studying and reflecting on this classic advice from MIT:

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There are two primary roles for undergrads.

The first is in quant trading which requires exceptional math skills, with most hires having degrees in math heavy subjects like math, statistics, physics, or electrical engineering. No finance knowledge is required. The primary target colleges here are MIT, Harvard, Princeton and Stanford, with MIT having a clear lead over the rest. Secondary targets include other colleges known for math such as UChicago and Columbia. You will also find smatterings of quant traders at top firms from other colleges including Brown and Cornell. Less selective trading firms, such as Virtu, will consider grads from top-40 colleges.

The other role is software engineering which looks for CS students that can write code that is bug free and has high performance. There is a definite advantage here in coming from MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, or CMU. But because there is an online coding test given that identifies promising students, students from other colleges can also be considered.

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I note that advice I linked from MIT is really applicable to any highly selective holistic review college. But for the reasons given in the post above, it is certainly no less relevant to anyone interested in a quant career.

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You are a high school student just finishing their freshman year. Continue to be your personal best.

Try to enjoy being a high school student and not just focusing on colleges. At this point, you have plenty of time for that search.

You have insufficient data now to even guess whether you will be a candidate for UPenn. UPenn is reinstating the requirement for the SAT or ACT, and you don’t have that score…or a junior year GPA.

My free advice…you need to find an affordable college, that you like, where you know you will have a great chance of being accepted. It sounds like you are a strong student but that doesn’t guarantee acceptance to elite colleges. So finding a couple of sure things that you like should be the first colleges you identify for your application list.

@hebegebe has given you some great suggestions…most of which are reaches for just about everyone who applies.

It’s fine to apply to reach schools…but a good application list includes both sure things and target schools, as well as reaches. So…find those targets and sure things also. My opinion.

You should also have a conversation with your parents about what they can and will pay annually for your undergrad college years. Some of the suggested colleges are at or near $90,000 a year now. Yes, they give need based aid..but you need to qualify for it as the college calculates.

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One thing I wish more parents and kids realized is the process of finding great Likelies and Targets can be a lot of work, but it can also be a lot of fun!

Like the “top” Reaches for any given kid might be kinda obvious. Which is fine, but not that interesting.

But then if finances allow, you might have a lot more choice of Likelies and Targets. So it gets really personal. What do you really care about? What sort of four-year experience do you really want?

And a lot of kids evolve their thinking during such a process, sometimes right through post-offer visits and a final decision. Part of that is they may get some surprisingly good financial offers, bonuses in the form of honors and such, and so on. But they may also just learn more about themselves and colleges and careers.

And in fact, it is more common than some realize that by the end of all that, a kid may have gotten into a once-cherished Reach, and they choose a Target or Likely offer instead. Because they now have the sophisticated understanding necessary to make such a choice.

So picking some “good for X” Reaches is often easy, but not really all that rewarding. In contrast, identifying your top “good for ME” Likelies and Targets? That’s the fun part, and sometimes surprisingly rewarding.

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You do NOT need to be president or leader of every club you are in.

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MIT is the stereotypical place - however it should be notes that quant firsm aren’t as picky as IB companies are - the big filter isn’t getting into a target school, but passing the interviews. A qualified applicant can land a position from great but not tippy top schools like NYU, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, etc. but keep in mind it’s an extremely unlikely possibility even among MIT students.

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Math is another potential major to consider. There are fortunately quite a few very good careers that are possible with a degree in mathematics. Quantitative analysis is one of them, but there are lots more as well. A lot of things in this world only work because someone did the math to make sure that they were going to work, and a lot of fields include experts who realize that they need some very strong math smarts to help them get their work done.

In terms of extracurricular activities, I have perhaps three recommendations. First of all, be genuine. Be yourself. Don’t do things just to get them on your resume, instead do what is right for you. If you get into a leadership position, remember that leadership is not about getting your way. Instead leadership is about listening and making the activity better for everyone. A good leader makes their entire team happier and more productive. Also, ECs are definitely NOT about getting the longest list. Instead, you want a moderate length list of activities that you do very well. I think that you will find this advice to be compatible with what you will read in the very good MIT “applying sideways” blog.

The advice of “do what is right for you and do it well” is that my family has done, and it has lead the 4 of us to 8 different very good universities (one each for a bachelor’s and a different one each for a graduate degree), and some of these have been high ranked (one was MIT). This advice is good in general and for any highly ranked school, and not just for MIT. However, what each one of us did was very different. We each just did what was right for us.

Why are you planning on taking the SAT as a sophomore in high school?

At least MIT, Stanford, and some (if not all) of the Ivy League schools do not admit by major. Your chances of getting admitted do not change based on your intended major. At least for MIT if you are admitted, and if you choose to attend, then MIT uses your intended major to help to match you to a freshman year advisor. Then at the end of your freshman year you get to pick any major that you want.

I do understand that this is different for some universities and might for example be different for any specialized business programs. I am not sure about Penn for example (I never considered going there as a math major, but possibly just because I didn’t think of it).

One thing that comes to mind whenever I hear a high school student, particularly a freshman, who is interested in a highly stressful career such as quantitative analysis: Be careful what you wish for because you might get it. Quantitative analysis is a very stressful career that requires long hours.

This makes me think of a friend of mine who graduated with a degree in math from MIT, went to Harvard Law School, graduated and passed the bar. He then went to work for a prestigious New York law firm, and lasted exactly one week. He could not stand the pressure and the competitive atmosphere. He fortunately had graduated with no debt and could afford to go back to university and get a master’s degree in a different but somewhat related field, and ended up with a good career in a different and less stressful field.

The other thing that comes to mind is that you should be careful about jumping ahead in general, and particularly jumping ahead in math classes. In mathematics, what you are learning now is based to a very large degree on what you were learning last year and the year before, and what you are going to be learning next year will depend upon what you are learning now. You want to learn each part very well. You need to understand the concepts very well and specifically do not just memorize formulae. The focus should be on a thorough and complete and solid understanding of the basics and the concepts. If you do this, then it should all fit together very well and high school mathematics, including anything on the SAT, can be relatively straightforward for someone who is strong in math.

When the time comes to apply to universities, then keep an open mind, make sure that you apply to safeties, look for schools that are a good fit for you, and keep your budget in mind. There are a lot of very good universities in the US. As one example…

… if you are from New Jersey then Rutgers is a very good university. I have known a lot of Rutgers graduates and they have all made the university look very good. The first three Rutgers graduates who I met were three graduate students, in a subfield of applied math, at Stanford. They were strong students who did well in the program.

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This. I can’t emphasize this enough.

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Lot of life can be missed living for the next thing and not the thing you are doing right now.

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I didn’t mean to suggest that the major would affect his chances, but rather that focusing primarily on math/CS competitions could lead to a less compelling overall application for Ivies, which tend to also value leadership, community service, regular jobs, etc.

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