<p>This site has some good information and some powerful pictures. Perhaps you can look at it together. <a href=“http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2004/10/alcohol_overdos.html[/url]”>http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2004/10/alcohol_overdos.html</a></p>
<p>Boy, this parenting thing doesn’t get any easier does it. Please don’t feel alone, many of us have walked in your shoes. You have gotten some great advice here. Good luck.</p>
<p>Yes, none of us including the OP know how serious the D’s problems are. We do know that she got drunk enough the other night that she could have died of asphixiation if she had inhaled her vomit. </p>
<p>That is the reason to get advice from a professional. She may or may not be exhibiting behavior that indicates that she has a serious problem with alcohol – a problem that could kill her. Her parents’ choice is to hope that things are OK or seek professional guidance so that if things aren’t OK, she’ll get some help.</p>
<p>In a few weeks, the daughter will have moved away to college, and her parents won’t be in a position to be aware of any problems she may have. Consequently, since they have seen problems now, they need to get professional advice now while they can. If she’s OK, they will not have harmed her by talking to a mental health professional or physician. She’ll at least know how dangerous what she did was, and how alarmed her parents were. If she’s not OK, her parents will have done what they could to get her help that could save her life.</p>
<p>This past year my D has been allowed to go to parties where alcohol is served. I asked her yesterday whether kids often threw up because they are so drunk at those parties. She said that it has happened to most of her friends, but often only once. Most of them felt so sick afterwards that they stayed away from alcohol for quite some time (not forever). She said it’s just too messy, headache next day, be the “it girl” is just not worth it. </p>
<p>Many people on this board is speaking out of concern and from their personal experiences. Some parents have had bad experience with their own children on this issue, and want to make sure the experience is not repeated for other parents. But one must not always take things to the extreme. We have all done it when we were younger. I got so sick from drinking some sweet wine when I was 20 that I have never ever got drunk again. This could very well be the case for this young person, but it may be more than that. I think the parents may want to determine how well they know their child. If they are not certain, then it may be worth to enlist professional help. We all have a different relationship with our kids (even in the same family), but I think paretns can try to work this out first without necessary getting professionals (or third party) involved. </p>
<p>Just a side note - Ever since our D is 16, we have offered her wine at home. The first time she got a bit drunk was in Italy with us. She had such a hang over the next day, she never had more than a glass or two after that. Alcohol is not a big deal in our house, but we do talk about the danger of being drunk in public. The interesting thing is that our D does not like the alcohol her friends serve (cheap booze), she would rather drink our wine/champagne.</p>
<p>It appears to be a lot of trust between OP and her daughter, or she would not have called to be picked up. Use it well. If you seek help from thrid party, be very involved. Sometimes kids may think by sending them to a third party, you are pushing them away or punishing them. Many of my D’s friends have therapist to help them with various issues. Their parents are generally very busy, high power people that don’t have the time to talk to their kids. I would try to have a heart to heart with her first. If it’s serious, I would also consider not sending her away to school this fall. But this could also be a simple rite of passage.</p>
<p>“It appears to be a lot of trust between OP and her daughter, or she would not have called to be picked up. Use it well. If you seek help from thrid party, be very involved. Sometimes kids may think by sending them to a third party, you are pushing them away or punishing them. Many of my D’s friends have therapist to help them with various issues.”</p>
<p>I know many people whose kids go to therapists. What I’ve seen is that the most involved parents care enough to seek professional help when it appears that their kids need it. Getting a person therapy for possible emotional problems is like taking them to a doctor if they have possible medical problems. It’s not punishment nor does it indicate that something is wrong with the parent-child relationship.</p>
<p>Parents and their kids can be close, but that doesn’t mean that the son or daughter would be comfortable talking to their parent about everything that bothers them. Things ranging from having been molested, to date rape, to having tried an illegal drug to being concerned to being concerned about some potentially serious mental health symptoms – all could be things that a young person might feel comfortable sharing with a professional, but not their parents. Even if a person talks to their parents about problems like the serious ones that I listed, the parent isn’t going to have the skills to be able to solve those problems any more than a parent would be able to solve their offspring’s serious medical problem.</p>
<p>When I worked in a college counseling center as a therapist, for instance, I remember an undegrad who came in for counseling because she was concerned that she kept waking up in bed with guys she didn’t remember meeting. She was drinking to the point of alcoholic blackouts (periods in which one is awake, but later has no awareness of what has been going on), a sign of alcoholism. I was able to tell her this, and direct her to some places where she could get help. I doubt that this is the type of things that she would have told her parents no matter how close she was to them.</p>
<p>Some parents I know virtually forced their young adult daughter to see a professional because of behavior changes in the young woman. After a long evaluation, including times in which the young woman was very hostile to her parents, it ended up that the young woman had a brain tumor. Fortunately, it was benign and easily removed. The young woman now will be going to grad school this fall. However if the parents hadn’t cared enough to intervene despite their daughters literal rage at them, the young woman might have been left with permanent brain damage.</p>
<p>I do want to point out that the OP can seek professional advice without bringing her daughter. The OP is concerned about her daughter – and with very good reason. It would be wise for her to get professional advice, not just rely on well meaning people on this message board.</p>
<p>“Disappointment in the choices that one makes does not mean disappointment in the person - and can be a good thing if approached correctly - it also can involve the matters of trust between people as well.”</p>
<p>We know that. And if the d. doesn’t have a serious drinking problem but merely made an occasional mistake, she might realize that, too. If, however, she does have a more serious problem, she may be less capable of making that distinction. (And she is a TEENAGER!) </p>
<p>Again, there are occasional drinkers who will never get into problems other than an occasional throw-up or hangover, and will outgrow it. There are drinkers who will end up with an acute problem - such as an auto accident or blackouts (and, not to be flippant, an occasional rape - there is no such thing as “date rape”, as some 70% of rape victims of all kinds know and/or have previous relationships with their attackers) - but who will also age out of it. And there are some who, without any acute incidents, will develop lifelong difficulties as a result of early drinking. It is very difficult for most parents to suss out the differences. That’s what professionals are for.</p>
<p>Calling to be picked up is a really good thing. It could also be a cry for help. Is she prepared for an alcohol-infused environment in a couple of weeks? Maybe - but you should find out.</p>
<p>Surfette…you’re young. You haven’t seen what most of the parents have seen. You don’t know which one of your friends or siblings will struggle with drugs and alcohol. </p>
<p>This wasn’t an incident of social drinking. This was an incident in which the mother was worried the daughter may have poisoned herself. The OP has every right to ‘geek’ out.</p>
<p>FYI, the above is an episode of extreme binge drinking. If that’s what you were up to during your ‘party’ phase, surfette, then it’s a minor miracle that you quit at the first sign of disappointment from your parents. In my observation, repeat binge drinkers are often unable to break the habit–until they have major therapy or a life change that connects them to something more positive.</p>
<p>One fantastic similiarity you have to the OPs D–you both talk to your parents and accept their concerns.</p>
<p>“In my observation, repeat binge drinkers are often unable to break the habit–until they have major therapy or a life change that connects them to something more positive.”</p>
<p>In my observation that is poppycock. Much has been said but there is no evidence that binge drinking in college leads to a life of heavy drinking. For most it is a right of passage that most also grow out of well before they hit 30. Excessive overreaction rarely leads to solving the problem.</p>
<p>You are both right and wrong. There is no direct connection between binge drinking in college (note - college, not high school or earlier) and later alcohol dependence. However, there IS a very clear, well-documented link between college “repeat” binge drinking (3 or 4 times in a two-week period) or “heavy drinking” (two or more drinks nearly daily) and alcohol dependence. The evidence is pretty overwhelming.</p>
<p>For more on the data regarding early drinking and outcomes, you can go to my own report:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dshs.wa.gov/dasa/services/OPPLR/2006trendsrpt.shtml[/url]”>http://www.dshs.wa.gov/dasa/services/OPPLR/2006trendsrpt.shtml</a></p>
<p>Click the section on Underage Drinking.</p>
<p>Could it be that your observations are poppycock? </p>
<p>When it comes to teen binge drinking–adn I should have qualified that statement although this thread is about a pre-college teen duh–I believe the evidence is overwhelming that repeat binge drinking is directly linked to alcoholism.</p>
<p>This from a woman whose non-drinking father was president of his fraternity and his Big 10 Fraternity council, whose non-alcoholic husband was a very happy frat boy at a big frat school and who raised two sons in a country with an 18 year old drinking age. I’m not afraid of alcohol.</p>
<p>However, I have seen a number of teen binge drinkers and druggies go off the rails and I stick by my words of advice. Consider yourself lucky if you haven’t watched a well-loved suburban 14 year old go from casual pot to dropping acid every day–inside a six month time frame.</p>
<p>“well before they hit 30” so they binge until they are what 27? and that is not a problem?</p>
<p>okey dokey</p>
<p>The young kids at work often like to hit the Happy Hours post work. So yes some of them do continue to have a few Friday after work every so often. So long as they don’t drive home, no biggie. It’s what YPs in NY, Chicago, Boston etc do until they meet Mr/Ms Right. I don’t think they are drinking till the puke anymore but they probably have enough to be over the limit for driving. A couple of today’s popular cocktails will do that.</p>
<p>it’s very frustrating to hear people saying that just because the OP’s daughter has gotten drunk a few times, she may have a serious problem with alcohol.
of course she MAY have a problem. but anyone COULD have an alcohol problem. it is not right to assume that because a teenager has had a little too much to drink, she has a drinking problem. i think that as she gets older, continuously drinking too much would show a drinking problem. teens who are just starting to experiment with alcohol don’t have the understanding that adults (and even students who have been drinking longer) about what their tolerance is.</p>
<p>i think that taking her to a counselor or therapist will likely result in a diagnosis of “she’s a teenager and she’s experimenting with something that most teenagers do eventually.”</p>
<p>I agree with oldfort. No matter what you might hear, high school kids who drink honestly don’t throw up that often. It usually takes quite a bit of alcohol for this to happen and 99% of the time the person who does throw up chooses not to drink alcohol for quite a while after that. The OPs daughter suffered a traumatizing situation…and felt bad about it. I highly doubt that she is going to be heading out to another party anytime soon. </p>
<p>And now I was just wondering how many of you folks got really intoxicated and threw up when you were younger…and then seeked counseling. Because I still believe that idea is absurd.</p>
<p>“it’s very frustrating to hear people saying that just because the OP’s daughter has gotten drunk a few times, she may have a serious problem with alcohol.
of course she MAY have a problem. but anyone COULD have an alcohol problem. it is not right to assume that because a teenager has had a little too much to drink, she has a drinking problem. i think that as she gets older, continuously drinking too much would show a drinking problem. teens who are just starting to experiment with alcohol don’t have the understanding that adults (and even students who have been drinking longer) about what their tolerance is.”</p>
<p>We don’t know how much she has been drinking, other than at least once she was CAUGHT while driving and drinking, and once she was so drunk her mom was so worried about potential alcohol poisoning that she stayed up all night and wrote a long post to a list of anonymous strangers asking for help. It is possible that these are her only two “experiments” with alcohol. Since I work in the field, I can tell that is highly, even extremely, unlikely, but it is possible. </p>
<p>A diagnosis from a professional who says “she’s a teenager and she’s experimenting with something that most teenagers do eventually” would be wonderful news, wouldn’t it? And very reassuring. A different diagnosis might provide the OP with the help she asked for by posting to this list. </p>
<p>“a little too much to drink, she has a drinking problem”</p>
<p>Her mother has already determined she has a “drinking problem”. She was caught drinking while driving, and was so sick (from “a little too much”) that her mother feared alcohol poisoning.</p>
<p>Now I have never met the OP and she could be exaggerating. I have met the daughter and it could be the only two times she has ever drunk in her life. I have no other information about either of them. But what I do have is the data (I do this for a living), and am in an excellent position to assess the odds. </p>
<p>“It usually takes quite a bit of alcohol for this to happen and 99% of the time the person who does throw up chooses not to drink alcohol for quite a while after that. The OPs daughter suffered a traumatizing situation…and felt bad about it. I highly doubt that she is going to be heading out to another party anytime soon.”</p>
<p>I have absolutely no clue where you got that idea.</p>
<p>My brother and BIL should have had counselling as teens and didn’t. Maybe counselling wouldn’t have worked–but maybe it would have led them to get diagnosed for the chronic, genetic depression they suffered as pre-teens and adults. They both have lifelong drug and alcohol addictions.</p>
<p>surfette, as incredible as it seems, I don’t believe you know any teens who are driven to repeat binge drinking. How wonderful for you. However, such teens exist, my dear. You’ll have to take our word for it.</p>
<p>As much as most adults here will not agree with this opinion, I define alcohol abuse as not being able to refrain from drinking when one has been told their behavior is putting them or others at risk, but can’t stop. It doesn’t matter if it’s once a week or once a month… if someone knows their behavior while drinking is dangerous, then they need to abstain. If they can’t abstain, despite being told how their actions effect others, then they have a problem.</p>
<p>This is probably the one area of my life where I live by hard and fast rules… there just isn’t any excuse for drinking and driving - there’s too much data showing the dire consequences of it. If this were my daughter, I’d be living on pins and needles, although I give her great credit for the courage to call her parents when she was in over her head this last time. I’d say one more incident, and I’d label her as someone with a drinking problem. No excuses - she’s sacrificing her own safety and the safety of others because she can’t stay away from alcohol.</p>
<p>I used to work in the alcohol rehabilitation field, and was involved in the treatment of more than 1,000 alcoholics and theri families, and I agree with Mini.</p>
<p>I’m a college student, not a parent, so take this as you will, but:</p>
<p>didn’t the OP post a few months ago about her D struggling to deal with a breakup/unhealthy relationship? I would be concerned that her drinking episodes might be a sign of her relying on alcohol as a coping mechanism. I think seeing a counselor both in response to her relationship struggles and these two lapses in judgment might be a good idea. Sure, teens sometimes lack understanding and experience with alcohol and get in over their heads, and maybe that is all there is to it (as Surfette suggests). But maybe a professional’s opinion could be helpful in determining what’s behind all this.</p>
<p>Due to srcameron’s insightful post, I looked at the OP’s back posts. Those posts indicate the OP has had a history of at least a year of having very justifiable concerns about her daughter and her daughter’s friends. The OP’s concerns were so great at one point that she put her daughter in therapy, but her daughter refused to talk to the therapist.</p>
<p>So, my advice to the OP is to get yourself into therapy with a therapist who is very familiar with issues related to concerns about adolescents. The therapist can help you decide what to do about your daugher including whether she is mature and stable enough to go away to college right now. It could be that your daughter’s alarming behavior is a cry for help because in her heart, your D realizes that she’s too emotionally fragile to leave home right now.</p>
<p>From what you’ve posted here and elsewhere, it seems your sister’s advice to you consistently is that you should close your eyes to potentially serious problems. Instead of relying on her advice, which sounds well meaning but misguided, I think you’d be better off getting professional advice.</p>
<p>We tend to forget the self medication aspect of over drinking, or even drinking, some people do pills, some drink</p>