Yep. I tried to find the form so I could list exactly what was on it, but it’s not online anymore. I do recall that they asked for basic info like first-semester GPA and campus activities (maybe high school, but certainly college). There was also a place for recommendations (if applicable—they weren’t for my daughter because she didn’t have any). And a copy of her school ID, I think.
“Isn’t it true that one has to complete an application for the rush process, and the application is somewhat similar to a college application? Listing GPA, interests, previous activities, etc?”
Yes, but at an elite school it won’t matter, since everyone in the freshman presumably had an excellent GPA, extracurriculars, etc. The applications help insofar if you know that Susie Q from Seattle loves skiing and is into science, you make sure that Sherry B in your house who is also from Seattle and likes to ski gets a chance to talk to Susie and establish common ground. Because the goal is to FIND NEW FRIENDS so the goal is to make the girls comfortable and look for common bonds and go from there. It’s only the jealous haters who think it’s all about “how many people can I reject based on their tacky shoes.”
Frankly, if you can’t see the difference between a trained, professional college admissions officer deciding who would be a good, qualified fit to the school’s student body and a bunch of 20-year-olds deciding who it would be fun to hang out with, then further discussion on this matter is pointless.
“Members of an organization using arbitrary social criteria to see who “fits” as members of their organization.”
What’s so arbitrary about “I click with you, or I don’t”? I use that exact same criteria in real life to form friendships.
Let’s make a real-life analogy.
You rent an apartment in a building. The building has several amenities one of which (lets say a swimming pool) is not open to all the tenants (regardless of how much rent they pay) but only a sub group who belong to a “pool committee.” The pool committee is self-selecting and only those who “click” with the other pool committee members may join. The accepted pool committee members pay dues to maintain the pool, but if you’re rejected by the pool committee, you can’t swim in the pool even if you’re willing to pay the dues.
If you lived in this building, would you be ok with this?
I’m just asking for info that supports your argument. If you can’t provide that, I guess you’re right.
I still haven’t heard anything about the similarities between the admissions process at restrictive country clubs and GLO recruitment.
I also hope that people realize that more than a few of those “trained professional college admission officers” actually were 21-year-old college kids making rush decisions for their GLOs just six months before.
If there were 10 other pools in similar buildings and you could join any one of those pool committees? Yes, I’d be fine with it. There is no cost to me until I join the pool, and in fact the members might invite me to some of their parties at the pool just to be friendly. There is nothing special about THAT pool (and you don’t move into the building with the pool until you join that pool) If you decide you don’t like swimming, you don’t have to join any pool and can just enjoy all the other amenities in the area (at the college) like the library or the gym or the French club.
Oh and look, there are pools just for men too!
Life is already like this. There is already a “cool kids” clique who were going to go to certain nightclubs and hang around and do other cool things that they were never going to invite me to. There were certain people that I could pine all the day long that I wanted to be friends with and they were just not going to ever “accept” or be interested in me. Why, it works that way in real life! So I have a choice - I can turn myself into something I’m not to please them - or I can go off and find a group of people who are more congruent with me.
The better analogy is - your neighbor has a pool. He invites his friends over, which includes some of your neighbors, but not you. Was he obligated to invite you to his pool party?
Btw, for all the “they don’t invite us over” angst, I ask - have you been inviting the non-Greeks to YOUR events, or just out for a cup of coffee or a pizza or a movie or whatever? Or is the “obligation” only one way?
Is the problem that Greek life is undesirable, or is the problem that it is too desirable?
It’s what I said above. A self-selecting membership based on arbitrary social criteria. Frankly fraternities present an additional problem which is the question of “entitlement” (and I use that word with caution). Every student who shows up at school is basically entitled to share in the totality of the undergraduate experience - the only exception being those things that take specialized skills or talents (sports teams or singing groups for example). The notion that because someone doesn’t happen to “click” with a bunch of upperclassmen who are making a snap judgement as to their “acceptability” should not be a reason to be denied from participation.
Once you get out of college and into the real world, you’ll have plenty of opportunities to only hang around “your kind” of people – college should be the time to broaden your horizons and expose yourself to the variety of what’s out there. Joining an “exclusive” organization is the antithesis of what an undergraduate experience should be about.
Nope, that’s not the same at all.
You’re missing the point that every student is entitled to enjoy the totality of the undergraduate experience, much like every tenant in the building should be allowed to use the pool.
Or my very good friend’s book club. I’d love to be in her book club. I haven’t been invited to her book club even though I’ve placed some not-so-subtle hints. Probably because they’re an established group and don’t need any new members. I’m sure there are other book clubs I could join but that one just seems so cool and plus my friend is in it.
That doesn’t mean that they’re elitist or exclusionary. I still love my friend. I even like other members of her book club who I’m acquainted with. It doesn’t make me resent book clubs in general or that book club in particular. Heck, if I wanted a book club that badly, I could form my own.
By the way, this is a true story. So, Heather, if you’re reading this… :-c
Ah, the old “separate but equal” argument.
Didn’t work back in the day, doesn’t work now.
“and a bunch of 20-year-olds deciding who it would be fun to hang out with”
Coming from a school known for theater, there were a bunch of quirky, gothy, angsty theater majors dressed all in black who decided they all wanted to hang around another, go to improv stuff, discuss plays I never heard of and not hang around the likes of perky preppy pink and green Econ major me. Was that all right of them to do so? They were a bunch of 20 yo deciding who they wanted to hang with. What’s the diff?
So because there are acapella groups and debate teams on my daughter’s campus, she should be able to join any one of them if she wants. In spite of the fact that she’s tone-deaf and stutters?
@EllieMom : No. As I said above:
Soze, you are off base. My horizons were EXPANDED because I joined Greek life and formed friendships with girls I wouldn’t have otherwise met if I’d stayed in the “safe zone” of my dorm. Girls from all over, all different backgrounds and ethnicities, majors, political leanings, etc.
Do you just indiscriminately invite anyone along to anything you do socially? Do you not click with some people and not click with others? What’s the difference? Are all of your friends’ friends yours too?
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“You’re missing the point that every student is entitled to enjoy the totality of the undergraduate experience, much like every tenant in the building should be allowed to use the pool.”
The tenant in the building not using the pool doesn’t make sense. Presumably the tenant paid for the pool in the rent. You didn’t pay for the use of a Greek house in your tuition/room/board.
Am I “entitled” to go to the movies with my classmates Jane, Mary and Sue even though they consider me a tiresome bore? Are they obligated to include me when they go out to dinner? Mary is inviting Jane and Sue to her parents’ house in Florida over spring break. Am I entitled to invite myself too? People are entitled to form friendships, soze, and not include others in their activities.
One advantage I found in joining a sorority (where not everyone was exactly the same) is that I was exposed to more opportunities with people I probably never would have met living in a dorm with 20 people on the same floor or in an apartment with 3-4 other people. There were 50 of us living in the sorority house and we changed rooms 3 times a year, so met and lived with a wide variety of personalities, majors, interests. Everyone isn’t best friends. Everyone doesn’t have the same interests. I do remember the 50 or so people I was with in the house, but don’t remember (or stay in contact with) the 20 who were on my floor of the dorm.
Right now I’m ‘senior sitting’ for my sorority sister’s MIL while she and her husband take a weekend away. I was her maid of honor and she is my daughter’s godmother. While we were in the college, we weren’t particularly close friends. She’s 2 years older than me and we had different interests as college kids. We would not have lived in the dorm together (only freshmen live in the dorms) and we never had a class together. We became friends after college, but definitely because we are members of the same sorority (her post college roommate was in my pledge class so we kept running into each other).
At schools with 1500 students, maybe sororities and fraternities aren’t necessary to form groups of students with similar interests, but at bigger schools they seem to be a staple that isn’t going away, and in fact at most schools are growing in popularity. Why would the students at Yale and Harvard want to add sororities in the last few years if they didn’t feel they would add to the college experience? If Yale and Harvard were providing all the social opportunities needed, why add Greeks?
Exactly. I just spent last weekend at the home of a sorority sister who lives in a different city. I would not have met her at all if I had just stuck to my dorm (a small one) or my major (even smaller).