<p>Wait: you say your daughter hasn’t been right since she got sick? Have you considered the possibility that there is some kind of mental effect to the illness? 19 is a common age for many mental illnesses–bipolar disorder, depression, schizophrenia–to make their first appearance.</p>
<p>This stands out to me:</p>
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<p>I know in the past, you’ve discussed your eldest as your best friend, and particularly how close you are. My impression has always been that she is someone with a ton of good sense, and rather sunny-tempered. This sounds like such a lot of change in a person over a rather short time, after a particularly stressful year (illness, academic challenges, transfer home.) Could it be some kind of cry for help, perhaps something where professional advice might be useful?</p>
<p>Of course this is an anonymous discussion board, but this does strike me as so at odds from the Zoosergirl we’ve gotten to know through your postings.</p>
<p>Much hugs and prayers to you both.</p>
<p>No, it wasn’t mental illness. She had mono with some major complications, surgery, then a monstrous reaction to some of the medication that exacerbated a life-long GI problem. Unfortunately, she then used our sympathy and worry to take advantage and we are stupid. She’s been horribly ill, but that doesn’t give her a free pass for whatever else she wants to do, if that makes any sense.</p>
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Without a doubt that’s the case and we should have been way on top of this much earlier, instead of patting her head and saying “poor baby, life is so tough for you.” We’re working on finding a professional right now.
My husband theorizes that she’s very, very angry about all the misfortune that has befallen her recently (she was actually purse-snatched on Saturday, but that’s another story) and doesn’t know how to deal with that because she’s never had (a) misfortune or (b) real anger in her life.</p>
<p>Having suffered through a heartbreaking discovery several years ago involving my older S, 24, I have empathy for you. My advice is for you and your H to see a family counselor before your D comes home. Having the opportunity to get some feedback from a professional may help you with your painful situation.</p>
<p>Can anyone die from a broken heart? Probably. As a result of learning about what my older S was doing, I ended up in the hospital with chest pains. Medical tests revealed that I have a heart murmer, something that never had been noticed before. I am convinced that learning about my S’s actions broke my heart.</p>
<p>Fortunately now, about 4 years later, it seems that older S is back on a good track. I hope that things work out for your D, too. I know several successful, ethical adults who were wild when they were young, but turned their lives around. This includes some college professors and ministers.</p>
<p>I had the exact impression af ZG that garland had. This stage in life can be so tough. Also, your H might be right. ZG has had such a rough road this year.</p>
<p>It sounds like being able to live with your mother is probably a good way to help get the situation/your daughter back to a position that everyone isn’t so emotional about it. It would be one thing if you were kicking her out in the street. But, this is kind of a half-way house situation, and hopefully she’ll be able to get things turned around.</p>
<p>Your H’s theory sounds like it probably has merit. Good luck on finding a professional to help you sort things out…we’ll be thinking of you.</p>
<p>zm, alot of us have been there. My 2 level headed, high achieving, normally great kids each have done things we would never have dreamed them capable of.</p>
<p>I firmly agree with whoever said put pen to paper to gather your thoughts, and I’d take it one step further. Write her a letter, and give it to her when she returns. This will allow you to present the issues logically, factually, without the emotion of verbal exchange initially. Cite past issues, promises made, guidelines stipulated. It also allows you to edit and compose your thoughts. Make sure you and H are OF THE SAME MIND. Kids know when to play one parent off against another. </p>
<p>For the confrontation, meeting, (call it what you will), shut off the cell phomes, take the landlines off the hook, and involve the younger sibs if and how you see fit. Let her read the letter. Twice. Then open the discussion.</p>
<p>I’ve had to use this method once with each of my kids, s & d. We’re fairly liberal parents, and always treated them as adults provided they behave as such. </p>
<p>Life is a learning curve and everyone will make mistakes, some serious with major potential repercussions. I allow for mistakes, and will allow enough room for freedom, and errors in judgement. However, once caught, and forewarned, I will give no quarter for a repeat offense. Offenses involving life, limb, legal or devastating financial consequences are not tolerated. My kids know that I will follow through on whatever I say will be the consequence of a second major offense. </p>
<p>At 19, kids are spreading their wings. Hey, we all did. Alot of us engaged in behaviors that were questionable. Some of us got caught, some didn’t. Some got smart, or were lucky. We all know a few who just never made it.</p>
<p>My two know the level of behavior that will result in them finding alternate living arrangements. If you choose to go that route, be clear about it, but do not hold it over her head like the sword of Damacles.</p>
<p>You have my best wishes for a most positive outcome.</p>
<p>"I firmly agree with whoever said put pen to paper to gather your thoughts, and I’d take it one step further. Write her a letter, and give it to her when she returns. This will allow you to present the issues logically, factually, without the emotion of verbal exchange initially. Cite past issues, promises made, guidelines stipulated. It also allows you to edit and compose your thoughts. Make sure you and H are OF THE SAME MIND. Kids know when to play one parent off against another. "</p>
<p>Excellent idea. After lots of thought, and after talking with a counselor, H, younger S and I wrote older S a letter that affirmed our love as well as our concerns about older S’s behavior. Older S’s response was to not communicate with us for a long, long time (Older S lived far away). However, eventually, he did start communicating with us again, apparently also developed empathy for our concerns, and from what we noticed when we visited him a few months ago – appears to have straightened out his life. </p>
<p>For me, the most difficult part of all of this was my being worried about older S and my also obsessively going over S’s childhood to figure what I must have done wrong. It took a long, long, time before I stopped blaming myself, and realized that S was responsible for his own poor choices. Therapy helped a great deal.</p>
<p>ZM, you have my deepest sympathy. Good luck to your family. Consultation with a professional is a wise idea, and I’m glad to see that it is in the plans.</p>
<p>To answer the question, “Can anyone die from a broken heart?”:</p>
<p>[BROKEN</a> HEART SYNDROME: REAL, POTENTIALLY DEADLY BUT RECOVERY QUICK](<a href=“http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2005/02_10_05.html]BROKEN”>“BROKEN HEART” SYNDROME: REAL, POTENTIALLY DEADLY BUT RECOVERY QUICK)</p>
<p>Apparently, broken hearts do cause real pain.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, I really feel for you. What an awful thing to have to go through.</p>
<p>I feel very dubious about “tough love” solutions, except as a last resort. I’ve never come close to using them, but I’ve never been put to that kind of challenge, either. I know lots of people will testify to their working, including here. I haven’t seen them work, except in the most extreme of situations (heroin addicted child stealing from everyone in the family to maintain her habit). And even then, it was a huge, huge gamble that the parents would never have taken if anything else had worked.</p>
<p>Don’t do anything just because you threatened to do it before. That’s actually a terrible reason to do anything, unless you had really thought it through when you made the threat. Recognize, also, that your relationship with your daughter is in a period of rapid change. A year ago, you were more or less completely in charge. A very few years from now, things will be exactly the opposite: she will be in charge, and you will be a suitor for favors (time, attention, access to grandchildren). Don’t throw your weight around now unless you are prepared for her to do it back to you with a vengeance in the not-so-distant future.</p>
<p>Also, as violadad said, make certain you and your husband really, truly agree. That may be a lot more difficult than it sounds, because the tendency is to paper over disagreements. I know that there’s nothing like a conflict between my wife and my child to drive a wedge between me and my wife, if I don’t agree with her 100%.</p>
<p>Thank you again. The male perspective is priceless as I am not one! I’m going to wait a day and then create a private situation in which I listedn to everything my husband has to say. I’m not sure I would have thought of that without your excellent counsel.</p>
<p>I agree about being together with your spouse before talking to your DD. You may not initially agree, so be patient with each other as you sort out your shock, anger, fear, frustrations, etc. Try not to blame each other!</p>
<p>Also, on the tough love, I think you can take a tough love attitude in terms of rules, yet present it in a reasonable way, not mean and tough, when talking with your child.</p>
<p>They are adults, they have the right to make any choice they want, we as parents have the right to choose to support those choices or not- no anger or hostility, not even judgment, just reality. You may live here if you abide by our rules, if you want to make your own choices contrary to our rules, we still love you, but you need to take on the “pink slip” to your life and have your own place to do your own thing. No screaming, just don’t want behaviour XYZ under my roof, but would love to see you when you want to stop by.</p>
<p>Tough love is one of those strange situations – balancing the “tough” and the “love.” Somehow it sounds so easy, but I don’t believe it is. I’ve known parents who claimed they were using tough love when there was absolutely no love evident. And I’ve known situations where a bit of toughness was desperately needed.</p>
<p>In the end, after you talk with your H, you need to go with your gut. It seems like up to this point you have made some excellent parenting decisions and raised a nice kid. No need to second guess yourself now. If your mom can give you a breather, and put some distance into the situation, then go for it! </p>
<p>On the other hand, perhaps when you talk to your H, the two of you will come up with some other consequences or plan that allows you to follow up on your ultimatum in a way that addresses the problem without adding to it.</p>
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<p>Well, that’s what Nanny 911 would say. Those nannies are very good at setting boundaries, following through with the prescribed punishment, explaining why they are doing what they are doing and doing it all with love. I’d watch an episode or two before you daughter comes home.</p>
<p>I’m not a “tough love” fan either, because I have too often seen the result of authoritarian parenting (not saying you are, at all, ZM–just commenting). I also don’t think ultimatums and prescribed punishments are all that they are cracked up to be. </p>
<p>But it also depends on the temperament of the kid. I would not be apt to punish so severely a child who has been primarily good and decent, as yours has. On the other hand, if her action was one that was illegal or threatened the safety of the rest of the family, toughness might come into play.</p>
<p>I so agree with JHS though; you really need to try to think ahead to the future and decide if the punitive action now is worth the potential losses later. I have so often seen it play out badly, that I am just offering my caution and sympathies.</p>
<p>Good luck to you, ZM. You have always seemed like a great mother to me.</p>
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<p>I agree that the punishment must fit the crime.</p>
<p>I think we all may have different images of “tough love” In some cases, tough is what tough for the parent to do to their kid yet is really enforcing a standard that the kid needs to abide by.</p>
<p>I am not a fan of the “you’re dead to me” tough love; maybe if you’re dealing with serious drug addiction and enabling, but in most situations involving young adults trying to make choices and some how making mistakes, it is still tough for a parent to send their teen to the young adult equivalent of a timeout :D</p>
<p>I am not sure what happened at ZM’s home, but have seen my kids friends do things like get pregnant, sneak out of the house at night in HS, get caught drinking in HS at HS events, flunk classes or just not apply themselves going on the 8 year plan, experiment with substances, move back home as adults and stay (yuck-35!), and just generally not “get a life” and not making great choices. </p>
<p>I have seen different versions of “help” form parents and the ones who did not set some sort of standard of behaviour did not really help their kids- pregnant girl having #2, 35 year old who moved home still home with mom at nearly 40, etc. Other parents did set some rules, some standards and most of those kids seem to be finding their way back to a path to success.</p>
<p>zoosermom- Take this time that your D is away as a gift of time to really come to some understanding of what you and your husband want and the best way to go about it in talking about it with your Daughter.
I was given some great advice when I was so angry and upset with one of my children.
First- say what you mean and mean what you say but don’t say it mean.You want to be able to communicate in a clear, direct and positive manner.
Second- write out a list of your concerns about her behavior. Give examples and list how those behaviors made you feel. For example. When you lie. Like the time when you blank. I felt angry, sad hurt. etc.
Third- List some appreciations- For example- When you hang out with your brother. Like the time blank. I feel happy, proud and hopeful.
Forth- Set some boundaries- Setting a boundary lets other people know what is and is not acceptable treatment for you. Setting a boundary is not about forcing another to do what we want them to do by using threats, rules and punishment nor is a boundary about controlling another. Boundary setting is more about the realization that you have no control over another person’s behavior but you do have control over how you will respond.
The most important thing about a boundary is to not set one that both you and your spouse can’t keep. A few examples of boundaries-
Here is one I used with a mentally ill relative- If I perceive you are isolating yourself and falling into depression I will tell you. I will offer to assist you in getting help.
Another boundary example that might apply to you- For my protection and the protection om our family. if you engage in unhealthy behaviors. I will ask you to leave our home and assist you in finding a safe place to live.
I would also try to be clear what is your ultimate goal. Do you want your D to get help or do you feel that what has been done is to large and can not be healed. From your posts in the past I get the feeling that you are a caring family and your ultimate goal is a healed family. Just be careful what you say doesn’t push your D away from her family and any source that would be able to support her if she wanted to make changes in her life.</p>
<p>Something in one of these posts about ultimatums rang a bell for me. My parents often defined their requirements in terms of ultimatums. As a consequence, I could not wait to leave their home, and spent very little time there after age 18, even though I would have never dreamed of defying their rules while I was in their house. It just was not a pleasant place to be.</p>
<p>That said, as a parent, I would not want to chase out a child who wants to stay in the parental home. I am assuming for the sake of discussion only that you may dealing with an issue that is illegal or in your opinion highly dangerous for other reasons. I think that even in the case of illegality, there are many ways to deal with it to come out with a desired result, short of putting her out of the house.</p>