<p>From all accounts, ZG is a great girl who has veered off path, not a rebellious, out of control kid who has forced her family into a last resort situation. Mom60 is right that it’s a good idea to keep the ultimate goal in mind and figure out the best way to achieve the goal. Time will help.</p>
<p>In the past year, ZG has lost her health, her intended career path, her academic confidence, her dream school, her independence and even her purse. That is a lot for an 18 year old, or anyone, to handle. I don’t know if adding losing her home and family life is in her best interest at this time, and I would be reluctant to make that decision until consulting with a family counselor. I really think the success of the tough love approach is dependent on the child’s personality and emotional makeup. I would hate to see ZG pushed to the point where she feels she has nothing left to lose.</p>
<p>Every family is different and no one else can truly know how they would react in your place, but I might suggest postponing a decision until you, your H and D all attend a few counseling sessions together. It will help you all better understand each other and figure out where your family goes from here. </p>
<p>Best wishes, you’re not alone. Many of us have kids who have made bad choices. It seems devastating at the time, but we all get through it. Your family was strong before this and it can be strong after, keep your faith.</p>
<p>Take a look at the story of LPGA player Morgan Pressel. She lives with her Grandparents. Maybe not “you’re out” maybe “it would better for you to live with grandparents for a while.”</p>
<p>It took me years to repair the damage when my exwife tossed our son out. I’m only to the point where they can be civil in the same room. His only sin was “hating her boyfriend.”</p>
<p>The insight and suggestions are most appreciated. Lots to think about. The reason we think it might come to an ultimatum isn’t our choice, but because I’m not sure she’s going to be willing to make any changes right now, and the behavior is both illegal and dangerous. I would do anything to make this right, but she has to work with us.</p>
<p>Yes, there’s an important difference between “you’re out” and “maybe you should stay at grandma’s until we both cool off”. My mother – who later in life loved her mother to pieces, and ultimately became the acknowledged head of a huge extended-family clan of cousins – had enough conflict with her mother while she was in high school that she spent significant time living with one of her aunts (who happened to live two houses away). Obviously, there was no irreparable breach there (although it was another decade before they were close). Years later, the daughter of one of her cousins lived in my mother’s house for six months during her senior year of high school, because her family had gotten a little crazy and she wanted peace and quiet. Extended families can be great for diffusing tension that way.</p>
<p>On the other hand, obviously you can’t just dump your illegal, dangerous problems on your mother. (That worked really really badly for the heroin addict I mentioned above, who had to be kicked out of her grandmother’s house, too.)</p>
<p>I don’t want to pry at all, but logic and experience suggests that maybe this involves drugs. If so, I think you’ll find, if you poke around, that lots and lots of people have to deal with these issues, and that things generally work out OK after some bad patches.</p>
<p>I am new to these forums and in reading these posts it is evident that you are highly regarded and respected amongst most of the posters. I know this must be devastating for you and your husband and I am not suggesting I know the answer. Not knowing the situation it is difficult to really offer pertinent advice. But some questions come to mind. Have you fully envisioned the impact of your ultimatum? Will any of it backfire in the future? and will your other children be affected?
It is good that you have time and space to put between now and when your D gets home to put perspective on the whole situation. This is definitely difficult. Best wishes and my prayers.</p>
<p>JHS, I’m very worried about that very thing with regard to my mother. The only reason I’m considering it is that my mother is warm and patient, but is the toughest person I know and my daughter can’t manipulate or play on her emotions because there’s nothing she hasn’t seen or heard twenty times before. The rules are the rules and my daughter knows that. There’s also no car there, which is the biggest concern that I have right now. I’d prefer she stay at home and work things out, but some of the behavior is so unacceptable that I have to draw the line in the sand that she can’t do those things and live in my house.</p>
<p>Milkandsugar, thanks for the kind words and it’s nice to meet you.</p>
<p>zoosermom- is the car in your name? If it is you have ultimate control over who drives it and when. One of the best things we did with our family member was keep the car in our name. It became one of the areas that my spouse set a boundary on.
His boundary was For my own peace of mind and the safety of innocent people if I perceive you are a danger to yourself or others I will take possession of the car. With this boundary it is not about punishment. It is about a parent not being willing to put a vehicle in the hands of someone who might not use it with care.</p>
<p>The car is in my name, as is the insurance. I do not have to let her drive it, but i think she might storm out to my mother’s house if I take the keys. I am taking the keys.</p>
<p>You are not thinking clearly Zmom. Have you ever lived in a house where a young, troubled teenager is ‘kicked’ out? There is so much trauma for everyone in the house, especially the younger siblings. It is horrible. It is not a ‘loving’ solution. Do you think your younger children will trust you in the same way if you ‘kick’ her out? They won’t. Your ‘unconditional love’ will forever be in question.</p>
<p>The issue must be drugs. Is she dropping acid every day? That’s what one friend found her 14 year old doing. That, for me, is Defcon level 5, ie move the child to therapeutic boarding school.</p>
<p>If your DEFCON is lower than dropping acid every day, then please please get some advice. A child reaching to drugs is a child who is self-medicating. </p>
<p>Why is she self-medicating? Are there mental issues you cannot see? Did she pick up an addiction during her illness? Is there addictive behavior in the family? My heart goes out to you but you CAN help her work her way back to health.</p>
<p>FOLTS- yes, you can work together through substance issues, but the person has to be ready to change. From junior high kids with cigarettes, HS kids having a beer on the weekend, to dropping acid and requiring intervention, there are many variations, but the primary point is that the person who is caught must be ready to change and willing to play by the family’s rules. If not, she may have to have some space- not the whole “kicked out” thing, but she may choose to live elsewhere if she cannot abide by the rules. Not sure about alcohol, but you can get drug testing kits to give randomly and ensure the rules are being followed.</p>
<p>Our fingers are crossed for you ZM, that things work out well and sooner not later!</p>
<p>Lots of wonderful, thoughtful, insightful advice. My thoughts are with your family.</p>
<p>I urge you to be careful with the younger siblings, too. If it’s a private matter and your younger kids don’t know and don’t need to know what’s happening with the oldest, that’s fine, but you should talk to them about what’s going on, even if you don’t want to let them know the actual situation.</p>
<p>FOLTS - zmom made it clear she does not wish to discuss the specifics of the transgressions. She just wants advice on when to talk to her daughter. It is not up to us to judge what standards they have set in their house for their children. How do you not know that she is not in fear for her younger children, and might feel more safe if their she was in a different environment? I wouldn’t necessarily jump to the conclusion that it’s drugs. There are plenty of other actions and behaviors non-drug related that could create an unsafe environment. She has been very receptive to the insight offered here, without feeling the need to justify her decision. For you to insinuate the daughter is self-medicating is beyond any useful purpose here (even if it is what she is doing). As I said in my earlier post, I suspect zmom will have various reactions on the contiuum of feelings over the next few days, and she needs to be reflective of all her feelings, and come up with a plan that is appropriate for her family for this situation.</p>
<p>zm, I think your thread has generated so many responses because it resonates with all of us. If we haven’t been there, we know that we might be there some day. You seem to be a caring, compassionate, thoughtful, devoted mom who only wants the best for your family. Please ignore the input from those few who scold you. You don’t need to explain or justify anything. I wish you, your daughter, and the rest of your family well. You will get through this horribly difficult time. Take care.</p>
<p>for other people reading this, FLOTS does bring up a valid point in that kids may choose to self-medicate in college for depression and other issues, so it is something of which we all should be aware. It is also not a bad thing for the thread to cover a few things that may apply to the general public, though not to Zooser family.</p>
<p>FOLTS is a single poster, so perhaps a regular poster who has dealt with something very painful and wanting to share and warn, yet not reveal too much info! I love that we can learn so much about the good and bad in life by reading the wonderful sharing of so many other people on CC, though in posting little tidbits it is easy to come across as flip or judgmental at times.</p>
<p>Hopefully ZM is taking little pieces of every one’s stories to aid her in coming to the right conclusion for her family</p>
<p>I am definitely taking everyone’s insight and experience for careful consideration. A lot of it has been quite helpful. If not for all of you, I might have lashed out this morning, which would have been very bad from such a distance. FOLTS has a very good point about self-medicating and I think that can involve other behaviors as well. Under the circumstances, it wouldn’t be too surprising because she has taken a lot of blows this year. I took no offense at FOLTS’ post, but I didn’t want to provide false information because it isn’t drugs.</p>
<p>ON the sibling thing, I think kids know a lot more than they let on and it is probably better to include them in some of the conversations, otherwise they can sense the tension and the problems and may imagine something far worse than reality.</p>
<p>Editing for age appropriateness of course, but letting the siblings know what is going on for their own sake.</p>