Alcohol?

Parent Cafe
81

<p>“Since when are booze laws and driver’s licenses the domain of the federal government?”</p>

<p>Think again. BATF is a federal agency. Federal funds can and should be revoked for states that allow laws to be flaunted. The federal government controls the laws on federal highways to some extent. </p>

<p>The point I was making was more rhetorical, but the fact is that teenage drinking is NOT cool, and parents…weak parents who want to be kids and be perceived as their children’s best friends are the clueless ones…</p>

<p>been to a dorm party lately? Know the truth.</p>

<p>And the age old argument that if you forbid it, they will come, is just a cop out.</p>

<p>The message should be clear. If you serve alcohol (and I a NOT talking about ONE glass of champagne at Christmas dinner) to minors, you are sending the WRONG message. You should be prosecuted.</p>

<p>Do you know how many kids die every year involving wrecks where alcohol is involved? How many die from drunk ADULT drivers on the road each year? How many kids at college have to be hospitalized each year for alcohol poisoning, sometimes resulting in DEATH? Look it up. The numbers are SHOCKING.</p>

<p>I drink alcohol in moderation. But I tell my kids, NOT UNTIL YOU ARE 21. And if I catch them before them, there will be SERIOUS repurcussions.</p>

<p>I can tell you HORROR stories in my community about teenage alcoholics. Most are from rich parents and many from VERY PERMISSIVE families. Its a sad sad story.</p>

<p>Drinking on most college campuses is OUT OF CONTROL and its fueled by permissive parents and those who say, “kids will be kids.”</p>

<p>Its wrong. Its against the law (if that even matters to you) and it is very dangerous and unhealthy. </p>

<p>How many kids go off to college and complain about drunken roomates “screwing all night long” while they tried to get some sleep. How many many kids go off to college and complain about endless parties in the dorm that are 7 days a week? </p>

<p>The problem as I see it, is parents and college administrators unwilling to enforce the law. A few expulsions would solve the trick.</p>

<p>I think its outrageous what some people on this board are suggesting.</p>

<p>Shameful.</p>

<p>I know nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. But a wholesale “its okay to serve booze to kids” is simply not acceptable.</p>

<p>Why dont you head on down to your local ER room some Friday night and while reading the paper and sipping your coffee take a gander at who is coming in the door…and just wait for ONE teenage car accident victim…and that ought to change your mind.</p>

82

<p>It is NOT illegal in many states. This is a decision for parents to make for their own children on a case by case basis, and it is legal to do so. In Washington state, the law clearly states the exceptions to underage drinking laws involving parental consent:</p>

<p>Underage Consumption of Alcohol
Consumption is prohibited WITH THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTION(S):
• parent/guardian presence or consent
• one or more specified religious, educational, or medical purposes</p>

<p>Underage Possession of Alcohol
Possession is prohibited WITH THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTION(S):
• parent/guardian presence and consent
• one or more specified religious, educational, or medical purposes</p>

<p>Furnishing of Alcohol to Minors
Furnishing is prohibited WITH THE FOLLOWING EXCEPTION(S):
• parent/guardian
• one or more specified religious, educational, or medical purposes</p>

83

<p>Wait- I would never allow underage drinking at my house as in a party or a bunch of kids. I thought this thread was about letting your own kid drink at your house once you are aware they are drinking at college/out on their own. The liability is huge for allowing/condoning underage drinking at your house. We all know that. Your own kid drinking wine at a family dinner, or having a beer or two when they are home on break- different story in my mind.</p>

84

<p>boy seafood kinda taking it to the extreme aren’t we? No need to jump off the deep end and point a finger at everybody else who reasonably works with their children to use moderation. </p>

<p>It’s isn’t just permissive families that have alcoholic incidents and it’s foolish to imply that a set of parents are permissive if their kids get hammered. Did you ever think that demonizing something makes it desirable? that never happens. </p>

<p>I guess if we use your go to the emergency room example we could branch out and start standing by the buffet lines and staring at what people put on thier plates, I mean afterall, they’re killing themselves. Or we could stand by someone’s couch and stare at them because they should be exercising… shouldn’t they? </p>

<p>Moderation also means trying to understand both sides to an issue and a middle ground. While you certainly can claim the “moral” high ground, you offer nothing that is helpful to parents whom are concerned and want to offer wisedom to their children. Extreme remarks really don’t provide help.</p>

85

<p>This dates back to my college days, and long before that! Many kids who were on a very tight leash in high school went wild when they got to college. My roommate was one of them. Drinking, not going to class, staying out all night… none of this was all that new to me, so I settled down right away.<br>
I wish my kid didn’t drink and “hated the taste of alcohol”. I wish his friends didn’t blackout on occasion and binge. I don’t have control over this. Repeat to myself. I don’t have control over this.</p>

86

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<p>Stop right there. No one has approved of serving anyone else than their own child. I don’t know where you’re getting this, I suggest actually reading all of the posts in this thread.</p>

<p>Also, no one has explicitly said they’ve given their child permission to drink at school. The fact that it goes on is out of you (the parents) control. It is up to your child whether they want to drink or not and how much. You won’t be there to police them, and you’re right, neither will the authorities.</p>

<p>As a college freshman, I have seen people who have problems because they don’t know their limit. I don’t know how to solve this problem, except by controlling themselves.</p>

87

<p>Ribosome - you are correct. I know that drinking goes on - I was in high school once - that is why I have allowed my D to continue hanging around with her friends. At least she has told me what is going on so we have established ground rules. As far as I can tell, she is not drinking herself - and I think I would know it, because I do wait up for her to come home.</p>

<p>I worry about the kids with super-strict parents because I know most of them wouldn’t dare tell their parents if drinking was going on because they would be afraid they wouldn’t be allowed to associate with those friends anymore. They might choose to either lie to their parents or just not call them for a ride, even if that would be the safe alternative.</p>

<p>Parents can’t be there to watch over their kids at all times, so they have to be able make decisions for themselves - and it’s more likely they will make the right decisions if they are able to have open discussions with their parents about these things.</p>

88

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<p>hmmmm… I consider myself a fairly liberal person politically. However, last year when D2 was in AP Psych, and they learned about different parenting styles (permissive, authoritative, and authoritarian), my daughter told me she had labeled me as authoritative. I told her that that was good… I didn’t want to be seen as permissive, yet I also didn’t want to be seen as rigid. </p>

<p>Again, remember, I am liberal - I have NEVER allowed/condoned/permitted drinking in my home by high schoolers. I’m sure my kids know that, were any of their high school friends to drink in my home, I’d be calling the cops on them. These kids need to know that I will not put our family or our home at risk of some lawsuit after some horrible accident just so I could be labeled cool, or their friends. </p>

<p>seafoodlover - I think you’re jumping to some enormous conclusions here. I don’t see any posts here where parents are condoning binge drinking by high schoolers. The OP was referring to a college student at home, possibly drinking with a meal or on a special occasion. No one here (us idiots) has admitted to sponsoring parties and letting their kids drink at will.</p>

89

<p>to those suggesting that parents allow curious teens to try alcohol for the first time under supervision before heading off to college, i wholeheartedly agree and thank you for your perspective!</p>

<p>my mom wanted me to see what drinking was like, so i could do it in a “safe” environment. i never took her up on her offer, and went to college having only sipped a glass of wine once. luckily, when i DID get curious about alcohol, i found a supportive group of friends who drank, and they watched over me and a friend of mine when we tried out some whiskey. i couldn’t even finish a shot because it was so foul. to this day i’ve only drunk twice in college, and never to the point of getting drunk.</p>

<p>but how common do you think that story is? my roommate was a party-type who enjoyed going out weekly and coming back well-soused. one night she and another girl decided to binge-drink next door in a birthday celebration aided by tequila. i had no desire to join them, and later got to clean up its effects. so my environment happened to turn me off to excessive drinking, but would that be the case of all students?</p>

<p>your kids are going to go away to college, and they are going to be exposed to drinking. my other roommate was given a bottle of champagne to celebrate her acceptance into a sorority, which was kept in the room fridge. the first roommate kept shotglasses as desk decorations. in high school i was an abstainer, but even i got a little curious in college. it’s not hard to find yourself a first experience with alcohol.</p>

<p>would you rather your kid’s first experience be in a frat-party, binge-drinking type environment, or at home where someone’s watching over them? i was lucky to have friends willing to “supervise” my first foray (which turned out to be a mild buzz and then sheer disgust at what i was drinking). it could just as easily have been the birthday tequila party next door, or anything less savory.</p>

<p>point is: you can’t control your kid’s first experience if you aren’t there. you can if it’s at home. send a message about responsible drinking and they’ll be likely to follow it if they know what alcohol is and does. </p>

<p>i don’t agree with the “drinking under 21 is illegal and that’s that.” not only is it incorrect (unless you live in a state that explicitly bans it in the home), but it’s blind. even the most law-abiding teen will be surrounded by law-breakers in the dorms. so why not take the legal opportunity of teaching them how to drink responsibly? failing to do so is a bigger risk than being afraid of condoning breaking the law, when you wouldn’t be breaking the law in the first place.</p>

90

<p>For seafoodlover:</p>

<p>As far as the legality, lets be serious. Bringing up the BATF is ridiculous, they have nothing whatsoever to do with drinking laws, thats shipping and manufacturing. Federal highway funds are only revoked if a state actually changes its drinking age to 18, not if they have lenient drinking laws concerning parental supervision and what not. For you to say that parents who allow children to drink in their supervision are trying to be “cool” is ridiculous. Of all the parents I know who allow drinking in their homes amongst their children and friends, none of them are trying to be cool. Their reasoning is when they were 18 it was perfectly legal so as long as it remains contained in their own basement they see no reason why their children can indulge in what they did when they were kids. They’re actually THINKING, and not just mindlessly obeying every single law. The government needs to get out of people’s homes concerning things like this.</p>

91

<p>And to say that the “forbid it they will come” argument is a cop out is absolutely ridiculous. Among the kids I know who get out of control in their drinking, just about every single one of them has stricter parents. Not a single one whos parents are lenient ever gets out of control. They recognize they’ve been given some responsibility and are respectful of that.</p>

92

<p>Dear seafoodlover…</p>

<p>Yes, underage drinking can be extremely dangerous, and yes I would believe all your “horror stories”…</p>

<p>However, your claims are based on only underage drinking… What about drunk parents/grandpas… what about the drunk adults who commit violence or drive a car…</p>

<p>I am too lazy to get any statistics, but there are PLENTY MORE adults who do more damage by drinking than teenagers. One example would be my uncle who got run over by a drunk adult riding his motorcycle. My uncle can no longer move his legs or arms. That’s one out of a million examples out there.</p>

<p>You mentioned:
“Its wrong. Its against the law (if that even matters to you) and it is very dangerous and unhealthy.”
However you said that you drink moderately.</p>

<p>If its so darn bad, why do YOU drink? And why do all legal ages drink? Why don’t we just make alcohol illegal? No… that does not make any sense.</p>

<p>The thing is… one day your kids will drink when they reach 21 (If they don’t drink, good for them). Now, at 21, they will be in college. In college, their first drink will be with the crazy college kids that you claim… Most likely, they will get drunk out of their minds and do stupid things…</p>

<p>I think the best solution to all this is to teach your kids how to drink when they are under your supervision (Unless they choose not to with their own will).</p>

<p>A bad habit can go for years and years, and sometimes throughout your entire life. Drinking is no exception.</p>

93

<p>This thread highlights the very strange attitude that American culture has towards alcohol. Having spent several years living in Europe, I’m convinced that most of our problems with alcohol and teens are related to the fact that we’re so strict about it. Of course, drunk driving and over consumption of alcohol are horrible things… but we should be promoting the responsible consumption of alcohol and not allowing it to be portrayed as something that’s evil in any amount. Elsewhere in the world it is, and always has been, a part of culture. Until quite recently in history, acoholic beverages (especially beers and wine) were about the only thing one could drink without getting lots of nasty diseases. </p>

<p>My European friends often comment:</p>

<p>“Let me get this straight… you Americans will give an 18 year old automatic weapons and ship them of to a warzone to die for their country, but they can’t have a beer?” </p>

<p>In most states, an 18 year old can walk into a store and buy a shotgun, but they can’t go to a bar. It really is quite stupid when you think about it.</p>

94

<p>Ben: Your comments are pretty much my experience. To add to our mix, my family has a history of alcoholism going back several generations. As a result, it’s been very important to me to bring my children up to think critically about alcohol and to make careful and informed decisions about it. That doesn’t include hysterical lectures about how underaged drinking is evil and “shameful”, but thoughtful ongoing dialogue about why people drink, how and when to say no, how to handle it when others are drunk, and all kinds of related topics. So we’ve talked about everything from how drunk people can’t meaningfully consent to pretty much anything, to how making drinks stronger doesn’t make them better, how to serve great mocktails, and lots of things in between. </p>

<p>And for all that, I’m still not considered a “permissive” parent in the larger context of my community – I’m the freaky conservative one, here in California!</p>

95

<p>I have a history of alcoholism in my family. Both of my parents have 3 alcoholic brothers but are not alcoholics themselves. They began offering me wine coolers and beer when I was about 12. My mom was raised in England and Spain in pubs and she figured that drinking laws were stupid and I was going to drink either way. Neither of my parents really drink. I’ve never seen my father drunk and my mom drinks a glass of wine a day for her cholesterol and very rarely drinks more. Either way, they’ve always offered me alcohol and it has never been a taboo issue in my house. As a result, I’ve NEVER been drunk nor do I find any appeal in drinking. Some of my friends drink and their reason is usually to rebel. I honestly see no point in it. Since most of my cousins are English, I talk to them alot about issues like this. Since it is relatively legal to drink in England, they have the same thing and most of their friends don’t ever get drunk, rather they drink a beer once a week at the most. </p>

<p>So personally, I think American drinking laws are stupid and actually drive more teens to drink. So give your son a glass of wine. Who cares??</p>

96

<p>Some random thoughts…</p>

<p>-Addiction is a disease. Making sure that drinking is not “taboo” in your home will not prevent someone whose brain is wired for addiction from getting it. If your parents showed you a great example of moderate drinking, and if you then were able to replicate that, good for you (you didn’t inherit the disease of alcoholism - you are blessed). There are many alcoholics and drug addicts who grew up in homes where no one partook in mood-altering substances (the disease was inherited). It is a dopamine thing, not a good parenting thing.</p>

<p>-I have heard of parents being arrested for serving underaged kids in their homes, although I think it was other people’s children (and I bet it depends on state law).</p>

<p>-Whether or not you decide to allow underaged children to sample acohol or not, they WILL access (on their own) whatever you have in your home if 1) they want to and 2) it is there. That means that if you don’t want your children to drink in your home, don’t keep alcohol there (unless it is in an unbelievably secure spot). Worse than your own children accessing it would be their friends (before getting behind the wheel of a car to drive home).</p>

<p>-NEVER underestimate the ability of bright children to outsmart parents (if they choose to).</p>

<p>-Personally, I think children should see their parents model a very close following of the law. There are enough opportunities for them to sample alcohol before college, and they can learn moderation from watching their parents’ behavior. </p>

<p>Approximately 1 in 10 people will struggle with a form of substance addiction in their lifetime. I think parents need to factor in their family histories when making the decision about whether or not to allow children to sample alcohol at home. I’m not sure what the right answer would be, though, as perhaps it would be better to discover such a problem before going off to college.</p>

97

<p>My husband was a police officer for years in a a large city and at a state college. He can tell you strict parents don’t make kids drink, they drink because they want too or they aren’t strong enough to say “No”. He has seen many families allow drinking and disastrous results. Saying not being able to do something at home causes you to act differently outside is not true at all.
I recently started working with a young girl about 24, who had “cool” parents, they drank, smoked pot on occasion, “anything went” but kind and fun in other ways. She is now strictly organic, doesn’t drink or smoke anything and wont raise her kids that way. She started to get into trouble and realized she didn’t have any real moral examples in her life. She realized that wanting to seem cool to her friends and giving them a beer at a party was immature on their part. </p>

<p>There are no easy answers but you must stress that the young man and woman on TV or in the paper CAN be them, they can also lose their life, kill someone, lose their licence, go to jail, get into other trouble, etc.</p>

98

<p>Is there some magical event that happens the very moment a person turns 21 that makes them better equipped to handle alcohol than before?</p>

<p>I don’t think so. I think it really just depends on the personality of your child and if you think they would benefit from an earlier introduction to alcohol in a less intense environment than college. </p>

<p>And of course as the poster above said, it’s important to stress that drinking alcohol and doing anything can have dire consequences. However, I think it’s more effective to stress this at home where there is a larger chance the kid will listen if you let them try alcohol. I’m a freshman, and when freshmen are first introduced to the drinking culture at most colleges, the last thing on their mind will be that one lecture mommy and daddy gave weeks/months ago.</p>

99

<p>Is there some magical event that happens the very moment a person turns 21 that makes them better equipped to handle alcohol than before?</p>

<p>I don’t think so. I think it really just depends on the personality of your child and if you think they would benefit from an earlier introduction to alcohol in a less intense environment than college. </p>

<p>And of course as the poster above said, it’s important to stress that drinking alcohol and doing anything can have dire consequences. However, I think it’s more effective to stress this at home where there is a larger chance the kid will listen if you let them try alcohol. I’m a freshman, and when freshmen are first introduced to the drinking culture at most colleges, the last thing on their mind will be that one lecture mommy and daddy gave weeks/months ago.</p>

100

<p>I think what parents must remember is that their kids will be exposed to lots of alcohol (and those that drink heavily) in college whether the parents like it or not. If parents take a super strict hard line on the issue then it’s almost certain that the kids will want to experiment on their own (and likely with some poor initial choices). However, if parents are more realistic and have realistic discussions with their kids, those kids are much more likely to make better decisions when, at college, someone drops a bucket of alcohol before them. From my own personal experience, I know that those with the super strict dictator style parents tend to behave quite poorly outside the home (although the parents seem to think they’re angels!)… little do they know what’s actually going on ;-)</p>