<p>There isn’t a “magical event” (^) that happens when a person turns 21, but there is evidence that</p>
<p>1) The brains of young people are still very formative until around 25 years old (the closer you get to your mid-twenties, the better your decision-making will be).</p>
<p>2) If children get very involved with alcohol at a very young age, they have a statistically better chance of becoming an alcoholic later in life.</p>
<p>Anecdotes are not evidence.</p>
<p>We actually have statistical evidence on the relationship between early drinking, alcohol provided by others at early ages, and heavy drinking/alcoholism by age 20, and there is really no comparison. Those who start drinking/have first drink at age 18 and above are more than three times less likely to become heavy drinkers or experience future alcoholism. And the majority of the early drinkers get their alcohol from family members. There are recent (2007) studies in both the American Journal of Public Health and the Journal of the American Medical Association confirming this finding. </p>
<p>Now, let’s remember: in every family, the chance of one of two parents (in a two-parent family) being an alcoholic and/or problem drinker is roughly 1 in 8. In a single-parent family, it might be a little higher. Alcoholism is at least partially genetic, and providing even small amounts of alcohol to someone with a genetic tendency at an early age is just asking for trouble. Ironically, of course, those with alcoholic tendencies tend 1) to like the taste; and 2) hold their liquor well, which is precisely why parents tend to feel comfortable providing alcohol to the kids.</p>
<p>The LAW in every state is 21. Disrespect for the LAW on this thread is shocking.</p>
<p>Training kids to become “drinkers” is repugnant.</p>
<p>You can throw rocks at me all day long. I dont care. Its wrong and its illegal.</p>
<p>I can tell you that MOST college administrators are struggling with this issue of underage drinking and abusive drinking even from kids who are 21. Its a serious problem resulting in death and mayhem EVERY single year.</p>
<p>Date rapes, promiscuity, drunk driving, accidents, alcohol poisoning, felony arrests, on and on…the list is almost endless the trouble that is caused by alcohol and teenage drinking.</p>
<p>Some people think college is about sports and parties. That is sad and tragic and a mockery of higher education. Thank goodness SOME schools are trying to put a stop to it. But when parents undermine their efforts by serving it at home, its wrong beyond words. I am NOT saying this is an absolutist rule, and that ONE glass of champagne or wine at Christmas supper or Thanksgiving supper is wrong. I am talking about a carte blanche availability of alcohol to their kids, who go around then and inform their friends “my parents are cool and let me drink…” </p>
<p>Parents abdicating their parental responsibility and trying to be best friends with their kids. Its a pandemic problem in our society.</p>
<p>You can hoot and hollar and whine all you want. Its illegal and its wrong.</p>
<p>I am done here. Have a nice day.</p>
<p>spideygirl,</p>
<p>I too would dispute those comments. The US has one of (if not the) highest drinking age of any major western country… do we have signifigantly lower instances of alcohol related problems? No not really. In many other parts of the world one can start drinking in public at 16 or 18 (and in most these countries the laws pertain to ‘public’ drinking and the purchase of alcohol… serving a 14 year old a small glass of wine with dinner is perfectly legal and considered normal outside the US). </p>
<p>It’s the hyped up paranoid attitude towards alcohol in the US that tends to cause many of the problems it seeks to prevent. As mentioned before, why does our society think that 18 is old enough to buy and own a gun but not to have a beer?</p>
<p>It is utterly ridiculous to send 18 year olds to war but forbid them to drink a beer.</p>
<p>“I too would dispute those comments. The US has one of (if not the) highest drinking age of any major western country… do we have signifigantly lower instances of alcohol related problems? No not really. In many other parts of the world one can start drinking in public at 16 or 18 (and in most these countries the laws pertain to ‘public’ drinking and the purchase of alcohol… serving a 14 year old a small glass of wine with dinner is perfectly legal and considered normal outside the US).”</p>
<p>Actually, yes. Denmark, France, Germany, Sweden, England, Poland, Russia, Czech Republic, Belgium all have much higher rates of alcohol consumption, and much higher rates of liver cancer and cirrhosis, heart problems related to heavy alcohol use, higher rates of alcoholism, and higher alcohol-induced death rates. (They have lower rates of drunk driving incidents, as many fewer drive.) It’s not much of an argument for earlier access.</p>
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<p>Is there some magical event that happens when a person turns 16 that makes them more capable of getting a drivers’ license? Or at 18 when a person could legally purchase (and/or view P##n)?..</p>
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<p>I’m not so shocked anymore. I used to be. It’s common now to disobey the law. We have come as a society to a mindset that “if we don’t like the law, it doesn’t apply to us” and that’s very sad. I see it here, I see it on high school baseball websites, I see it in many places. It’s sad, but I am no longer shocked by it.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why people feel the need to put alcohol into their systems at any age. It has been proven to alter your mind (yes even that little bit) and it can cause irrational choices and can alter lives very quickly. I just don’t understand why people flock to the alcohol.</p>
<p>seafoodlover,</p>
<p>Even you are commenting that the occasional serving of a small quantity in the home is OK… however you then go on to take a very hard line the other way. This is simply an unrealistic approach. In regards to the law, as has been mentioned other times in most states it’s perfectly legal to serve someone under 21 small quantities of alcohol in their own home. </p>
<p>I hardly think that most people on this forum are suggesting that parents should have a fully stocked liquor cabnet and say to their kids “there you go, get yourself smashed.” Instead, they’re supporting the idea that parents should take a realistic approach towards the issue and teach their children that alcohol is something that is a part of a healthy lifestyle but must be respected. Whereas moderate smoking is certainly bad for you, it’s widely accepted (and there are many supporting studies) that show moderate responsible alcohol consumption is very good for you (both the compounds in some drinks such as wine and the low level of alcohol itself, a natural blood thinner).</p>
<p>One doesn’t need to try and be ‘best friends with their kids’ to take a responsible and realistic approach to such tough issues. I think most people would agree that those who take a dictator style approach to parenting more often than not fail to form any meaningful influence on their children outside the home. Whereas when the childen see their parents as a source of wisdom and advice (and not someone who’s always just saying what they can’t do) are much more likely to get the information they need, and have it sink in, to make responsible decisions when the time comes.</p>
<p>“I think most people would agree that those who take a dictator style approach to parenting more often than not fail to form any meaningful influence on their children outside the home.”</p>
<p>Don’t have a clue as to what you mean by dictatorial style. The vast majority of kids who are abstainers had parents who were as well. (that number has grown significantly in the past three decades).</p>
<p>By dictatorial I mean those who take a line like “alcohol is evil, don’t touch it ever, if you do I’ll disown you.” Even if that statistic is true, it’s irrelivent to the point as that dosen’t mean their parents took the previous line. Many/most people that choose to not drink alcohol (for personal, medical or religious reasons) come to that conclusions after considering all the facts for themselves… not because their parents forced them to.</p>
<p>I think I asked a question earlier that nobody has answered - what actions have other parents taken when their teens have been caught drinking while out with their friends (I’m talking about 15-17 year old teens)? My friends and I have very different views, so I am just curious about how I should handle this, should the need arise.</p>
<p>I’m sure I have said this before, but I would never provide alcohol to my D’s friends. Since I know that some of her friends drink, I just want to have a plan in case she decides to give it a try. I lean towards viewing it as a learning experience - but I don’t really want it to seem as if I am giving her my tacit approval either. My biggest concern is that I don’t want her to be afraid to call me if she needs me, and that is why I would be hesitant to be overly strict. If she thinks I won’t let her hang out with those friends anymore, or that she will be severely grounded, she may not call me and end up putting herself in a more dangerous position. OTOH, I don’t want her to think that it is just fine for a 15 year old to hang out drinking every weekend.</p>
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<p>Rocks? OK, here are a few.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Nice use of the slippery slope fallacy - so disrespecting one law will collapse the rule of law? Nice try - you probably go over the speed limit occasionally without batting an eye about it.</p></li>
<li><p>Thanks for the ad hominem - calling me repugnant? Onto the issues that are actually relevant…</p></li>
<li><p>Obeying the law isn’t an a priori imperative - some laws are unjust - under your interpretation you would HAVE to obey these laws at those time periods, or it would be, to use your term, “shocking”
a) Jim Crow laws that enforced segregation up to the mid-20th century
b) help the Nazis round up Jews during the Holocaust (Nuremberg Laws)
c) etc.; historical progress has consisted of civil rights groups standing up against unjust laws</p></li>
<li><p>There’s no unique reason why 21 is a magical age; look at Europe - they’ve got fewer alcohol problems with an 18 drinking age. </p></li>
<li><p>All your rambling concludes in two arguments: “wrong” and “illegal”. For “wrong”, where’s your basis? As for “illegal”, see above.</p></li>
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<p>Good for you, but how is that relevant with regards to the issue of 18 vs 21? The existence of problems even with a strict drinking age only proves that a more lenient one is needed to counteract the “forbidden fruit” effect.</p>
<p>You have a nice day as well.</p>
<p>LIMOMOF2, I would just keep a close eye on everything. You must stress she can always call you but please let her know, more than once, the many complications of drinking and smoking and responsibility. Maybe with a police officer as my husband, my sister an ER nurse and having another relative working at a college, I see and hear way too much. I also have a good friend who’s very smart daughter started hanging out with a nice, smart young man that drank occasionally and smoked. Within a year, they grew closer, she started to drink more, smoke and her grades dropped. She barely graduated and now is in CC for a couple of years. She deeply regrets the bad decisions drinking and “pushing the envelope” in other ways caused her not to care about many things. I’m not saying of course that would happen to your daughter but it always is a good idea to keep on eye on things. My girlfriend was rebellious as a youth under tight guard but letting it down didn’t help her with her daughter either. I think just good communication and firm rules is the best you can do.</p>
<p>I agree, good communication is key. If you just yell a lot, she’ll probably keep doing it anyway, but you won’t find out about it. If you have a good line of communication open she’s much more likely to make better decisions in the future. Furthermore, even if she does make a poor decision she’s then much more likely to talk to you about it and, if necessary, call you if she’s in trouble. It’s all a learning process and, unfortunetly, sometimes kids need to make mistakes along the way. However, if those mistakes can be used as a lesson rather than a means to drive parent and child apart then the net result is positive.</p>
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<p>Well, this makes me feel so much better about all those 18-year olds who are out fighting our wars (read sarcasm). There seems to be some sort of illogical rationale if 18 year olds can buy weapons, enlist in the military, etc., but can’t be trusted to drink alcohol. Of course, I could say the same thing about almost any age… there’s always going to be people engaging in those activites who aren’t doing so responsibly.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input Debruns. I agree that good communication is key - and I think we do ok with that. So far, things seem to be ok with D - her grades are still excellent and she is fully engaged in all her sports and other ECs. She and her BF have been together for 8 months, so I don’t think he encourages her to drink (he doesn’t smoke or do drugs, thankfully). I know D doesn’t enjoy the taste of alcohol as I have let her have sips of wine and mixed drinks on occasion, but I was just thinking that as she becomes more comfortable being around people who are drinking, she might become curious and want to give it a try. I’m sure you have heard some scary stories - I have as well - I just want to do what is best for D in the long run.</p>
<p>rocketman - thanks to you as well. I agree with everything you said, which is why I let D still hang out with friends who drink. I think we do communicate pretty well - she’s the one who told me about her friends drinking - and she did that without knowing how I would react. I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it (if I find out she has been drinking) - but I am pretty sure I will not be too hard on her so as to keep the lines of communication open. Some of my friends are incredibly strict and have made dire threats if their kids are caught drinking - I just would just be afraid of that backfiring on me.</p>
<p>The fact that she came to you to talk about it shows that you already do have good lines of communication so that’s an excellent sign.</p>
<p>“Some of my friends are incredibly strict and have made dire threats if their kids are caught drinking - I just would just be afraid of that backfiring on me.”</p>
<p>This is often the easier approach to take, but it almost never works. In these cases the kids usually still get up to no good, but the parents are left out of the loop and don’t find out (until something really bad happens). There was a family down the street who took this approach with their son on all issues and they seemed to think they just had a little gem. That was until he started doing drugs, failing classes and slashing car tires in the neighborhood. They learned the hard way.</p>
<p>LIMOMOF2-</p>
<p>If I knew there were going to be 17 year olds drinking at an activity, I wouldn’t let my 15 year old attend. Period. To me this is a very different issue than my original question about my almost 21 year old. Some questions come to mind: Where is this drinking taking place? Where is the adult supervision? Who is keeping these kids from getting behind the wheel of a car? Who is buying/supplying the alcohol?</p>
<p>You like the boyfriend, and trust him. I’d have a heart-to-heart letting him know that you don’t object to him at all, and that you trust him, but he can’t take your 15 year old daughter to events where 17 year olds are drinking. There are other places and things to do, and they need to find them.</p>
<p>Just my opinion - YMMV.</p>
<p>"Maybe with a police officer as my husband, my sister an ER nurse and having another relative working at a college, I see and hear way too much. "</p>
<p>Or possibly too much of a small segment of society? No offense intended. But extremes are called extremes for a reason, because they aren’t part of the norm.</p>