<p>Your data is obviously flawed Hawkette.</p>
<p>concoll,
As Columbia does not make its CDS available to the public, I used the USNWR data which is for the prior year. That is why it is asterisked. I don’t yet have confirmation of its 2009-10 number. Your speculation could be accurate. We have to wait for confirmation following its disclosure to places like USNWR, collegedata, etc. As you probably know, collegeboard does not provide this data point, but your point about the 25/75 is likely accurate. </p>
<p>As for Dartmouth, they changed their reporting this year on their CDS as they stopped reporting the ACT depth percentage. The number that I showed for them is their latest available number (2008-09) for % of students reporting an ACT score of 30+. Below are their two CDS reports.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~oir/pdfs/cds2009_2010_final.pdf[/url]”>This Page Has Moved;
<p><a href=“This Page Has Moved”>This Page Has Moved;
<p>For all of these schools, I don’t put a lot of weight into minor differences (up to 10%). After that, I’m less emphatic in that belief.</p>
<p>Increase in the NUMBER of applications</p>
<p>2006-2009, 2001-2009, school</p>
<p>7690 9623 Vanderbilt University
6672 8382 Brown University
6380 10093 Harvard University
6273 17833 Cornell University
5435 8002 Emory University
4399 8309 Princeton University
3366 9930 Yale University
2993 5682 Columbia University in the City of New York
2600 6350 Dartmouth College
2397 4433 Rice University
2325 3655 University of Pennsylvania
1954 4798 Duke University</p>
<p>EDIT: disregard this post- I misdread collegehelp’s data.</p>
<p>Percent Increase (2010-2006)/2006:</p>
<p>Yale 195%
Cornell 184%
Duke 146%
Dartmouth 144%
Columbia 90%
Princeton 89%
Rice 85%
Harvard 58%
Penn 57%
Emory 47%
Brown 26%
Vanderbilt 25%</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Uh, no thanks! Quiet satisfaction is enough!</p>
<p>Percent increase in applications 2008-2009, the most recent timeframe for which I had data.</p>
<p>Increases in applications seem to vary over time. Different timeframes present different pictures. I don’t see a clear pattern.</p>
<p>21% Brown University
18% Yale University
17% Dartmouth College
14% Vanderbilt University
14% Rice University
14% Emory University
7% Columbia University in the City of New York
6% Harvard University
6% Duke University
4% Cornell University
3% Princeton University
-1% University of Pennsylvania</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The pie’s already grown, hawkette. Students everywhere consider the REVD schools (and NU, JHU, et al). The people on CC whose mindsete is Ivy-exclusive are LAGGING the curve, not ahead of it.</p>
<p>Is there a really top-notch school which is somehow unable to fill a freshman class because no one’s heard of it and no one applies? Til that happens, I don’t think that there’s a problem. You’re solving a problem that doesn’t exist, Hawkette.</p>
<p>p’girl,
I appreciate your comments, but it’s pretty clear from this and other threads that the level of understanding of many CC readers does not meet yours. As noted earlier, my target audience is the buddys of the world who might not have picked up on the evolution. </p>
<p>ch,
Thanks for the application data. When measuring with percentages, the powers of large numbers will certainly influence the results and so it’s not surprising that some of the Ivies would lag over the 2006-09 and 2000-09 periods. The Vanderbilt results, particularly over the 2006-09, are not a surprise to me, but perhaps best represent the rapid changes that are taking place there and similar colleges that previously had a lower profile. </p>
<p>However, the biggest surprise for me was the change in apps for Cornell from 2000-09. Very impressive. Why do you think that happened?</p>
<p>
Easiest Ivy to get into for an Ivy status conscious society.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I guess I don’t see the point of trying to encourage the objectively-qualified Buddys to also consider the REVD schools (or whatever) and thus making it even harder for kids who want to get into those schools. Let them all chase after the same darn eight schools, and leave the REVD or other schools for those who cared enough to investigate. </p>
<p>From my NU alum standpoint, for example, I don’t want people “dragooned” into considering NU who don’t want to be there or who think it’s Ivy-League-sloppy-seconds-also-ran-and-what-would-they-tell-the-neighbors. Let them think that, and stay away, buh-bye, have a nice life, and meanwhile NU isn’t hurting for applicants (nor are any of the top 20 or so schools we’re talking about). So Buddy and his high school buddies don’t think REVD are as “prestigious” as the Ivies. So what? The opinions of hs seniors don’t constitute prestige in the first place.</p>
<p>
Indeed. For example, for 2009-2010, Penn’s applications increased by over 18%, while Yale’s actually decreased by .5%.</p>
<p>Hawkette or someone else, can you compute the “# applications per spot in freshman class” for all of these universities? If they are all fairly high, then there’s no “problem” with Buddy McAwesomes not understanding that REVD are fine schools – because other kids do.</p>
<p>Moving on to some measurements of the size of the classroom, here is something to consider. How do these schools compare on how frequently students end up in large classes:</p>
<p>% of classes with > 50 students , College</p>
<p>8.1% , Rice
7.0% , Emory
6.6% , Vanderbilt
5.0% , Duke</p>
<p>9.2% , Brown
8.4% , Columbia
16.8% , Cornell
8.7% , Dartmouth
7.3% , U Penn</p>
<p>I don’t see how Brown’s numbers for the increase can be accurate. I applied in the 2005 cycle and there were only like 17000 applicants then and this year we’ve hit almost 31000.</p>
<p>Where did I say these schools are not good? I don’t have some irrational hatred of any of these schools; I applied to Rice. They are very good schools, but with the exception of Cornell, REV, aren’t as good as the ivy league.</p>
<p>More class size data, this time on the prevalence of small classes offered on these campuses:</p>
<p>% of classes with < 20 students , College</p>
<p>65.4% , Rice
68.2% , Emory
67.7% , Vanderbilt
71.4% , Duke</p>
<p>70.6% , Brown
77.2% , Columbia
58.1% , Cornell
62.5% , Dartmouth
72.9% , U Penn</p>
<p>buddy,
Would you care to explain how you reached your conclusion?</p>
<p>
Sure, why not? </p>
<p># 2010 Applications
Cornell 36,337
Brown 30,136
Penn 26,938
Duke 26,770
Columbia 26,178
Duke Trinity 22,126
Vanderbilt 21,800
Columbia College 21,747
Dartmouth 18,778
Cornell A&S (2009) 16,288
Emory 15,549
Cornell Eng (2009) 7,711
Duke Pratt 4644
Columbia SEAS 4,431</p>
<p># Freshmen (Fall 2009)
Cornell 3181
Penn 2477
Duke 1739
Vanderbilt 1598
Brown 1494
Columbia 1391
Duke Trinity 1373
Emory 1315
Cornell A&S 1112
Dartmouth 1094
Columbia College 1074
Cornell Eng 738
Duke Pratt 366
Columbia SEAS 317</p>
<p>Applications per spot
Brown 20.2
Columbia College 20.2
Columbia 18.8
Dartmouth 17.2
Duke Trinity 16.1
Duke 15.4
Cornell A&S 14.6
Columbia SEAS 14.0
Vanderbilt 13.6
Duke Pratt 12.7
Emory 11.8
Cornell 11.4
Penn 10.9
Cornell Eng 10.4</p>
<p>Rice’s 2010 figures are not yet available. It received 11,172 applications for the class of 2013 and enrolled 894, placing it between Vanderbilt and Emory at 12.5 applications per spot.</p>
<p>Looks like none of the REVD schools are wanting for applicants per spot, so there doesn’t really appear to be a problem that “no one knows” about them.</p>
<p>Continuing on with the comparisons of REVD and the non-HYP Ivies, let’s move inside the classroom. How do the students feel about the quality of the instruction that they are receiving? How do they feel about academics, defined as "</p>
<p>A high ACADEMICS grade generally indicates that professors are knowledgable, accessible and geniunely interested in their students’ welfare. Other determining facors include class size, how well professors communicate, and whether or not classes are engaging."</p>
<p>A Rice
A Emory
A Vanderbilt
A Duke</p>
<p>A Brown
A Columbia
A- Cornell
A+ Dartmouth
A U Penn</p>
<p>buddy,
Still hoping that you provide some comment on how you arrived at your “ranking.”</p>