An Interesting Dilemma

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
21

<p>Alex, I just want to say that I am very impressed with your insight, maturity and the articulate way you express yourself. I have no doubt that wherever you land you will do well.</p>

<p>All that said, I believe (and remind me of this next year when I am going through it with my daughter) that financial issues aside, the ultimate decision of where to go to college should be with our child. We can offer our advice and input but in the end, this growing adult knows themselves better than we do and need to make their own choices. We have to trust our kids to make the right decisions for themselves AND how to recover and learn from their mistakes. But its really, really hard to let our much loved children go. I am betting your parents are coming from that place of having a hard time letting you go and its coming out in this conflict.</p>

<p>You have thought this through in depth and have a clear direction. What a wonderful start!</p>

<p>Best of luck to you!</p>

22

<p>Alex, I am sorry that you are still stressing out over this! :frowning: </p>

<p>I truly hope that your parents would not force you to attend a school you don’t want to go to! I’m sure that your happiness is important to them and certainly they can take pride in knowing they raised a girl who is aware of her needs and confident in making decisions that are in her own best interest. Perhaps they just need time to grieve over the loss of THEIR dream for you to attend NYU.</p>

23

<p>If your dad reads this maybe our experience last year will help. As many of you know, my daughter had narrowed her college choices to Yale and Northwestern pretty early in April.</p>

<p>We were all ecstatic that she got into Yale, how could you not be? She had wanted to go there since she was 10 years old and she made it happen. Then she started exploring the school more closely for Musical Theatre and she discovered it wasn’t right. But it was YALE!!! How could she reject Yale? My husband did everything he could - he contacted business associates who were alumni and they put him in touch with others and so on. He spoke to a variety of professors in the department, theatre company owners who graduated from Yale, anyone possible. My daughter went to their Bulldog Days, met with professors and students, really researched everything in hopes of figuring out a way to go there. Other than there not really being a performance major it was perfect, she loved it.</p>

<p>In the end (and I do mean 11:59:59 on April 31st) she accepted Northwestern. She loved Northwestern also and they had the major she wanted. She understood what she was giving up, which was important to me, but she made the decision that worked best for her and she hasn’t looked back since.</p>

<p>Her dad, on the other hand, is happy that she’s happy but it still hurts him. The idea that he had a daughter who could get into Yale was unbelievable to him but he wanted her to be happy more than anything. In the end Yale was a dream that died for my daughter but not my husband. She reminds him that the Yale School of Drama is still a possibility in six or seven years, he’s hoping to live that long! (JK)</p>

<p>As sandkmom said above, let them grieve for as long as it takes, but, hopefully, they’ll see your choice of colleges is the one you should go with.</p>

24

<p>Alex,</p>

<p>I’m sure you realize your parents are acting out of their love and concern for you in an industry that is anything but predictable. With what knowledge they have they are trying to steer you towards what they perceive will best prepare you for success in your field. That said, I echo the sentiments that your insight and maturity are considerable. I think you have done excellent, thorough research and obviously have thought deeply about your goals. I think your desire to attend Evansville and then move on to grad school is in every way legitimate, valid and in fact very wise. As you continue to discuss things with your parents, here are a few points you might bring up:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Ultimately what you are discussing here (aside from potential professional opportunities) is your training as an actor, a very delicate process. You must be in an environment that is the most nurturing to your talent as possible so that your skills, creativity, versatility and (perhaps most importantly) confidence can develop to their fullest. If you are in an environment you do not like, are not comfortable in and are not inspired by, this could potentially be harmful to your talent and keep you from reaching your full potential. An actor might go to the greatest drama school in the world, but it could derail their development in a major way if it is not the right place for them. This might be difficult to explain to those outside of the theater world, but it is a very real and important consideration.</p></li>
<li><p>Regarding your mother’s conversation with the Syracuse grad, it’s a salient point that he was a musical theater actor. For musical theater, by and large, an MFA isn’t necessary. It is a genre that capitalizes on youth and there are more roles for young actors there. However, for many actors in “straight” theater (especially the classics), a graduate degree is a highly prized distinction. The kind of acting you want to do is an important consideration for the kind of training you get.</p></li>
<li><p>Simply being located in NYC is not necessarily a boon. It is a city you must be passionate about and to a certain extent prepared for. It sounds like you want to incubate in a smaller environment before diving in, which is very smart. Coming here prematurely has destroyed many an actor, and that’s not a fact that should not be taken lightly. You’ll also be dealing with a MILLION new things in your freshman year of college which will be exciting and difficult and very emotional…perhaps a smaller environment would be better for your personal growth, as well.</p></li>
<li><p>Should you go to Evansville and then on to an MFA, all of those professional contacts and opportunities your parents want for you will be available (probably moreso than at Tisch undergrad!). I’m not really sure what their argument is, here. Do they doubt the legitimacy of an MFA? All they need do in that case is investigate the major MFA programs and the scores of their alumni who are working professionals, many of them considered America’s finest. It seems the real conflict is that you have a long-term vision for what you want, while they are only looking at the next four years. This is very hard, as so many outside the profession don’t understand how long and winding an actor’s path can be, nor do they understand the often mystifying process of an actor’s training. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>I feel like I have so much to offer to this conversation, but because of its scope am unsure how to proceed. Please feel free to PM me if you like. I’m a young actor in NYC, two years out of my BFA training. I’ll be starting on my MFA in the fall. I’ve encountered a lot of the considerations that are coming up for you and your parents and would be glad to share my experiences and point of view in a more specific way.</p>

25

<p>At the end of the day (in four years), the name of the school to which you went will be so much less important than the commitment and investment of your energy that you make in the process. Your ability to do that is inexorably intertwined with the way the school meshes with your desires and expectations. It’s you -and no one else- that must decide which school resonates with you and will provide you with the educational culture and experience you are seeking. Stick to your guns, the position you are taking is well reasoned, rational and responsible. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, my daughter was one of those ultra high achieving h.s. students coming from an immediate and extended family filled with all sorts of lawyers and doctors. She turned down Syracuse, Muhlenberg and Emerson to attend a BFA program at a (gasp) “arts university”. We, as parents, had all sorts of trepidation and some of her other relatives were aghast and agog at her decision. They were dismayed that she did not even apply to NYU (we visited and as good as the school is, it just didn’t click with her either).</p>

<p>Three years later, she has been deliriously happy at her school and has had a rich and rewarding educational experience. She could not imagine herself anywhere else nor could we after seeing first hand just how invested she has been in her education and how much she has grown. Allowing her to go with her gut was the right decision as tough as it was for us (and tougher for some other family members). Forcing her to conform to our vision of her college choice would have been so counterproductive. </p>

<p>Hopefully, as you continue to talk to your parents, they will come to understand how important it is for you to make your own choice. This is the beginning of many important decisions about your educational and career path that you will be making as a young adult. This is your college choice and you are the one who has to make it and live it. As tough as it is, this is the time that parents really need to let go. If not now, then when? I hope things turn out the way you wish.</p>

26

<p>araby,
I’m a parent. I firmly believe the decision where to go to college should be up to the student, not the parent, barring any financial parameters they may set. It is your first big adult decision and you are the one that has to go there. You can’t go wrong with either program. I feel you should go to the one you prefer. However, as best as possible, outline on paper all the reasons why Evansville matches your selection criteria and how NYU doesn’t (if you feel it doesn’t). List pros/cons for each school. Lastly, there is your gut feeling of which school appeals to you and that matters. But keep your discussion with your parents to these points. I have to say that in my view, your weakest point is that if you go to EVansville, you can get into a good MFA program. IF you end up doing an MFA (that could change too), you could get into a good one coming from either program, in my view. </p>

<p>We let our kids pick their own colleges and I must say, once they attended, we could readily see why each daughter picked the one she did…it was the perfect fit. Our theater kid went to NYU/Tisch, by the way, but I am not pushing that school for you, as it is more important to attend the school that fits what YOU want. You have fine options. </p>

<p>I understand that your parents are leaning more toward the prestige factor. I think fit is more important in the long run than prestige. I remember amtc’s D’s story last year. In fact, I have a student I have been advising the past two years for theater admissions and she just chose NYU/Tisch over Stanford and Brown. My own kids did not go by prestige but went by fit. And their schools fit them to a T. </p>

<p>I believe your parents want what is best for you. All parents want their children to be happy. Explain in concrete ways why each school fits or doesn’t fit your selection criteria and that you don’t feel as good about one of the options as the other, even if it is a good school. I think if you can articulate your reasons in a mature fashion (you seem capable of this!), it helps than just saying you want X over Y. I would want to know my kid had solid reasons for their choice, any choice. </p>

<p>As a parent, I would not want to be responsible for pushing you to choose Y when you want X, and then what if you are not happy there? Better for a student to make this choice. It is your life, and you have to live it. </p>

<p>It would be good if your parents read this thread!</p>

<p>Best wishes to you!</p>

<p>(oops, cross posted with Michael…I could have just written “ditto”!!)</p>

27

<p>Alex,</p>

<p>It ultimately comes down to you. I’m not sure how your parents can’t see this, when so many strangers online can. You are the one getting the education, it’s your life, it’s your dream. It sounds like you have a strong inclination towards Evansville. I could be in a similar situation, as I, too, would love to attend school at NYU–it’s been my dream to study film there since around 4th grade. However, it seems like NYU isn’t a fit for you, and that allows me to use your tale as a cautionary one.
It’s obvious that this is something that matters to you and is something that you’ve considered a lot. You have the facts, and your parents don’t. They have what seem to be very biased generalizations. I’m sorry that you’re being pressured by, of all people, your parents into attending a big name school particularly for the big name and possible connections. As many have pointed out, nothing is guaranteed, even connections, especially for undergrads.
Both look like fantastic programs, and as I don’t have much else to base it on, I’m going to take a journey into the land of pathos.
You seem to not feel totally comfortable with living all by your self way far away in the big city. College is a big step, and from Indiana to NYC is a BIG step. If you feel that you need a more gradual acclimation to life away from home in a smaller town–I myself am a fan of smaller towns–then by all means go to Evansville, particularly if it can prepare you extraordinarily well for an MFA, which you certainly seem set on.
It’s obvious from their concern that your parents love you. It might be nice for them to have their daughter in-state. Not only will it make it easier financially (I know not an issue, but still, a definite plus) it means that you’re more likely to come back and visit them and attend important things outside of when you have time off from school. NYU is an expensive school and plane tickets are also expensive. A day-long carride is much cheaper and convenient.
This is definitely a hard decision, and unfortunately it isn’t being made easier for you. It’s obvious that your parents are supportive of what you want to do in LIFE, pursue acting, and that’s why they are trying to get you these connections.
Becoming a working actor is tough, and the bigger the city, the harder it is.
I wish you the best of luck in this field! It is clear from your rhetoric that you are incredibly passionate about theatre.</p>

28

<p>Good morning, Alex. </p>

<p>My last thoughts on the matter are that your parents would be potentially wasting thousands of dollars if they send you into a college environment that you are unhappy with and particularly in the case of NYC, unready for. Perhaps your math/science parents will consider the futility of the spending the extra money on a name brand when clearly the less expensive other but less known name brand fits you better. And this is about size too, so would they buy you size 10 jeans if you wear a size 2? What good would that do…you just couldn’t wear them! Seems to me, the dollars and cents of NYU just doesn’t make sense for YOU!</p>

<p>Finally, if you plant a flower in the shade when it requires full sun, it wilts even if you think it is the best spot in your yard. </p>

<p>I know this is all very cliche and hopefully your parents have realized that their trying to save you from a mistake will in fact, BE a mistake! Good luck today…keep us posted! :)</p>

29

<p>This story still makes me sad hours later after reading it! :frowning: I think back to my own parents and how they influenced all my decisions and think it is much better to trust that your child knows what is best for her then to end up producing a really indecisive adult! At least I think so. Maybe. IDK.</p>

30

<p>In all fairness to Araby’s parents, we’ve only heard one side of the story, and we all know people who choose the wrong college. There are no guarantees: even when someone is as sure as Araby. So, parents, for what it’s worth, I empathize with your position. It would be very difficult to feel that my child was choosing the wrong school. Nevertheless, it is now April 30. I don’t imagine you want to force her to go to NYU, so it’s probably best to try to understand her, and hope that it is you who are making the mistake.</p>

31

<p>I don’t think it is a mistake necessarily that the OP goes to NYU because she liked the school enough to apply there after all. But I do think that since both are good schools, she ought to go to the one she prefers and that the decision ultimately be hers to make. She can’t go wrong in terms of her education at either one and it is a matter of preference. And the final decision should rest with the student, not the parent. This is an adult decision, and not the same as picking out preschools, for example. I don’t think there is a right or wrong decision here. It is more a preference for specified reasons, over two fine choices, two schools the student was willing to apply to and consider, and one stands out to her as a better fit.</p>

32

<p>Well, of course, it is the student’s decision. That is why it is such a problem for her parents. Otherwise, I suppose they could just say NYU or nothing and be done with it. Yet most us have a preference and sometimes we feel strongly about it and it can be a struggle to come to terms with those feelings and give our children the freedom they need. As far as right or wrong is concerned, again, I agree with you. This is not a matter of education, but of preference, but that does not mean that there is no right or wrong. A wrong decision would be a student who is unhappy enough to want to transfer, for example.</p>

33

<p>What I meant by right or wrong is that I am not convinced that going to NYU would be wrong and not work out and likewise I am not convinced that going to Evansville is a wrong decision (her parents think that). I think both these colleges have a good chance of working out and one never knows until one attends. But since a decision needs to be made, it is best to go with the preference for now, and that it be up to the kid. But I was just saying that I don’t think that the school not chosen is necessarily a wrong choice but simply the less preferred choice. There had to be a reason each of these schools landed on the college list.</p>

<p>You are right that one could attend a college and be unhappy and transfer out. But many pick colleges they are sure they like and still end up unhappy and transfer out too.</p>

34

<p>I agree, there are no guarantees, and many different kinds of right (and wrong). Nevertheless, I still feel some sympathy for Araby’s parents. It cannot be easy to let your child choose a school that would never be your choice for them.</p>

35

<p>We haven’t heard the rationale from Araby’s parents. The way she presented it, however, sounds as if their reasons for NYU have something to do with prestige and not being happy that their D would turn down what they think is a better or more prestigious program. And in the end, what will matter most is the fit of the school and the D’s happiness, not how renown a school may be. I believe that is hard for SOME parents to let go of. But all parents approach this differently. For us, it was about having our kids pick where they WANTED to go and we didn’t have a preference for them. For example, for my older D, when she was narrowing down her acceptances, she tossed out Penn, an Ivy League school and preferred Tufts and Smith over Penn. That never bothered us as she liked the other two schools more and that’s all we cared about. But I understand that some parents can’t see beyond picking the best known school, so to speak. That may be the situation with the OP but we haven’t truly heard the parents’ side.</p>

<p>I also agree that Evansville is not the parents’ choice for araby, but what I don’t agree is that it is the wrong choice. Likewise, I don’t think NYU is the wrong choice. I really think it is about the student’s preference and she can’t go wrong with these two fine choices but she’ll be happy enrolling at the school she prefers and that’s what really matters, I think.</p>

36

<p>Another thing is that the OP chose to apply to NYU and so she could not possibly hate it as she liked enough things about it to apply. She already knew it was in a city, for example. But she mentions in her first post that if she didn’t plan to go to grad school, than she likely would even choose NYU! I personally think the grad school point is the weakest point here. Who knows if she will go to grad school (one doesn’t need a MFA if they have a BFA) but even if she does want grad school, she can do that whether she goes to NYU OR to Evansville. That is not truly the compelling difference between these two college options. Both are BFA programs in fact. I think she can make a better case to her parents as to a list of ways that Evansville fits her better than NYU that don’t have to do with going to grad school as that is possible no matter which of these school she attends.</p>

37

<p>Both of you bring up excellent points and remind me of the story of another poster whose D got into and attended what she thought was her “dream school” and it turned out not to be. Plenty of kids are home in a semester…I know someone who was home in a week! So there is definitely some truth to the fact that not all 17/18 year olds choose the right school for themselves and even if they think they do they can’t really know until they get there. </p>

<p>OP comes across as being in touch with what kind of experience she wants and having valid reasons for wanting to go to UE. And she has presented her parents as pushing NYU for the prestige/potential connections factors. But it’s true, we don’t really know the story. </p>

<p>NYU is an awesome choice to have. I can see why her parents are enamored with it over a program they don’t really know much about. I just can’t imagine anyone surviving NYC if they didn’t want to be there in the first place!</p>

38

<p>Since we had not heard from Araby’s parents, and arguments being what they are, especially between parents and teenagers, I assumed her parent’s position was at least a little more nuanced than we knew. I could well be wrong but there is the possibility. </p>

<p>I faced the same problem, too. My daughter’s second choice was not the one I would have chosen for her. But I revisited with her and I was glad that I did because I saw why she liked it so much. In the end, just as I was trying to explain this to my husband over the phone, she was visiting a class and deciding, with regret, to choose the school we preferred. However, by that time, I shared her regret! </p>

<p>For me, the many twists and turns of this journey were part of the challenge of parenting.</p>

39

<p>Also, I hope that if OP DOES end up at NYU that she is able to recall the reasons she chose to apply in the first place and pursue her BFA passionately. She may end up loving it and be totally and pleasantly surprised!</p>

40

<p>We truly don’t know araby’s parents’ side. I was just saying that in her first post, she says her parents wanted “rankings” about Evansville and so it seems that prestige is one factor that matters to them. They are not the only parents who think in those terms. We are more into fit than prestige. I hope araby can articulate and put onto paper why one school fits what she wants in a college more than the other one does. </p>

<p>I wish on her visit to NYU, she could have met with students in Atlantic. The NYU tour gives you the lay of the land for the university, but just doesn’t give you any feel for the studio where she will be spending three days a week. I don’t know what she did on her Evansville visit and sometimes it is hard to compare apples to apples if you don’t do the same sorts of things at each visit.</p>