Another "Where have we gone wrong?" thread

Parent Cafe
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<p>cronie,</p>

<p>Am glad you’ve been able to laugh a bit about your daughter’s comment (which just shows her lack of life experience). If there was one thing that she should get a grip on, is that there is more than one way to have a life and we can’t always predict the results of our choices. How fabulous for you that your choice vis-a-vis work/no work has worked out so wonderfully for you and H.</p>

<p>My guess, as others have indicated, is her comment is more about her trying to figure out her own path, than anything to do with yours</p>

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<p>Yes, that also happened to me. This is a culture that denigrates moms who stay home with the kids.</p>

<p>Do whatever you want to. I’d be tempted to go back to work just so I would have more scintillating conversation! Also, would be able to give career advice because I was working.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>cronie,
Has your daughter recently become involved in a romantic relationship? Perhaps she has discussed her lifestlye growing up with a potential life partner and that individual questioned her family dynamics.</p>

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<p>Cronie: Well, daughters can say some really hurtful stuff to moms and dads as they find their way to adulthood. Please don’t take her too seriously;she is just trying to work things out in her mind. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth you have had the most awesome situation of all. To be able to have the choice to work or not while you and your husband raised your family. We were lucky enough to have that choice too . I hope if my daughter has a family that they will have such a wonderful choice too.</p>

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<p><a href=“%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060721756-post1.html]#1%20[/url]”>quote</a>** “Where have we gone wrong?”**…I just had a conversation with my 23 year old that shocked me. She basically told me that because I didn’t “work,” I was not doing my share in her eyes. She said that her dad has to work everyday, and all I have to do is stay home and do whatever I want, and it’s not fair…

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<p>In response to your direct question, your daughter didn’t have the benefit of having explained to her that:</p>

<p>[ul][<em>]Your husband and you are each part of a greater whole; parents working as a team…‘Heart’ and ‘mind’ with complementary responsibilities.
[</em>]She’s currently benefiting from the decisions you and your husband made on her behalf.
[li]At 23, she’s just beginning to learn the compensation rate for work outside the home, but has yet to learn how much that time is ‘worth’ inside the home. [/ul][/li]It’s not to late to steer her away from knowing the ‘price’ of everything and the ‘value’ of nothing.</p>

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<p>Cronie -</p>

<p>I, too, left my full-time position when DD was born. I was lucky enough to have a career that allowed me to work as much or as little as I wanted. Like Marian (if I recall correctly) sometimes it was almost full-time sometimes hardly at all. </p>

<p>My work is with young adults. I have a slightly different take on her comment given your recent bout with cancer. I have found that very frequently young women will say the most horrible things and pick fights with their moms when they are scared. Their love and need for their moms is so intense that they almost need to find fault with them so they can cope with the thought of not having them. I have also known several young women who were almost angry with their moms for having breast cancer because it put them at risk and it was their mom’s fault.</p>

<p>I know the remark was hurtful. I felt the zing and it wasn’t my girl. My hunch is the best thing to do right now is say that you will always love and respect her no matter what path she chooses and you would hope she would feel the same. Believe it or not, I think she needs your love right now more than she did when she was a little girl and could just crawl up on your lap and tell you she needed you.</p>

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<p>"She’s also “in love’ for the first time, and probably thinking about her future in new ways. Remembering that she still has much to learn and that her comments reflect more about her own insecurities and fears for her own future than they do about me and my life helps, but it’s still stings.”</p>

<p>This sounds like an accurate observation. It will be interesting to see what the next generation does. I am reading a book called the Ten Year Nap by Meg Wolitzer that evaluates the choices families make when they have children - the book is fictional but has some wonderful observations, one in particular about the men of our generation. I don’t want to copy the whole passage so hopefully you will get the gist:</p>

<p>“It wasn’t as if these men would take their children out naked in winter and drop them in the woods. It wasn’t as if they would starve them. But the husbands they lived with were part past, part future. They were not the future itself. They were not, apparently, the fruits of feminism, offered up to the daughters of its founders as a perfect gift.”</p>

<p>Cronie, you are fortunate that your choice has worked out so well - it’s not statistically the norm for women who choose to stay home with their kids. Marian’s story is more common from what I’ve read on the subject.(The Price of Motherhood by Ann Crittenden) Making it work well really depends on so many factors - the values of the man you marry, the jobs you choose, family economics, what kind of family support you have close by, your health and on an on. What resonated with me about Marian’s story is that she doesn’t regret her choice but acknowledges the consequences - I think those stories are important to hear and tell. </p>

<p>Maybe your daughter is evaluating your choices in order to figure out what she wants. I guess I don’t agree that the argument to work or not to with kids is passe. We are the first generation to work en masse and while the argument for or against has lost some of it’s polarity, there is still a choice to be made.</p>

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<p>Boy, isn’t this the truth!</p>

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<p>So much terrific insight in this thread. I’m so glad I posted. Thanks to all of you- I think every post had something of value to take away.</p>

<p>We had a long talk this morning. When I went into the kitchen she was there and immediately said that she was sorry that she hurt my feelings yesterday, and that she "didn’t mean it, …or all of it. " Fortunately I was in a positive place were I could really listen and respond to her concerns and find out what part of it she did mean…:rolleyes: and attempt to get her to see the bigger picture of what marriage means, what a partnership is, and why I am happy with our decision, which I tried to do yesterday but wasn’t effective because I was caught off-guard. </p>

<p>It was basically all about her, as many posters have suggested. She is in the first relationship right now where this issue would be in her mind, and maybe even a topic of conversation with her new love. She is also about to move across the country to work and live with friends and near her boyfriend. I think she has a lot of anxiety about it, even though she’s excited. It actually was a very good conversation, made better by the fact that my 19 year old son came in in the middle of it and added some very thoughtful comments. (one out of 2 'aint bad…;)) </p>

<p>The part she “didn’t mean” was that I can do whatever I want all day- she does appreciate that I contribute to the family in many ways. What she doesn’t get is why I would find that “enough.” She can’t imagine how I could be happy at home with as few responsibilites as I now have while her dad was out working and coming home stressed many days of the week. Now, for those of you on CC, I don’t have to tell you that my H, being in the financial industry, is having some pretty stressful days as of late. So daughter sees her dad talking about his day, while knowing I spent mine at my pilates class, or having coffee with a friend, or cooking up an interesting meal while reading the forums. I am happy and carefree while he’s out slaying dragons. Unfair, she cries.
I will admit that I’ve been enjoying my newfound empty nest freedom, especially after my surgery, as I appreciate my health, and I’ve become very concious of diet and exercise, and relaxation. I am stronger and healthier than I was before my cancer diagnosis, and I’ve made efforts to make sure I stay that way. So she sees me as quite capable of helping out. What she didn’t get at first, of course, it that I do help where the help is needed - being the emotional support and keeper of a calm, beautiful and healty home.</p>

<p>My son gets it, and basically laughed in her face, as Washdad said he would do. His reasoned response to his sister: “What you don’t get is, that even if mom were to go to work tomorrow, and could make a third of what dad makes, which would be highly unlikely, dad would not be working a third less to make up for it. He would still be working just as hard, because his job demands it. It wouldn’t relieve his stress in any way. In fact, it would make it worse because he wouldn’t have her support at home.” That sunk in.</p>

<p>We covered other things she had been thinking about as well, such as whether a couple should blend their incomes, or keep separate accounts, and what the consequences of doing each might be. Again, my son surprised me with his comments (the fact that he had even thought about it at his age, actually)by saying he strongly preferred the blended incomes and treating it as one, as my H and I do. He felt that keeping each partner’s money separate would lead to fewer joint decisions, and might undermine the communication and sense of common purpose. When incomes are pooled, big purchases need to be agreed upon, which he felt was better for the relationship.
He also commented that my being home, even while he is in college, is really a nice thing from his point of view. He reminded his sister that I have been available to help both them with various situations, which he appreciated- he named three of the top of his head- and that had I been working I wouldn’t have been as likely to. I was touched.</p>

<p>My daughter is definitely weighing her options. She’s kind of scared, but she knows we’ll be there for her. Growing up is hard. And not just for the kids.</p>

<p>Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to update anyone who was wondering. Thank you all!</p>

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<p>Another cc happy ending!! :)</p>

<p>And can we bottle that son of yours?</p>

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<p>Moving across the country “to be with a guy” is REALLY scary…even if that is not what’s really happening. even if there is just a wiff of that in the air. I moved across the country, in part I think, just so it wouldn’t SEEM like I was living somewhere because of my boyfriend (now husband).</p>

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<p>wow, and they say boys mature later than girls!<br>
I’m glad for her sake that your D is getting a fuller picture of what married life is than she had had. Moving across country to be with a guy is a huge step and a scary one. Not just the moving but what it means about self-reliance and commitment.
Your son sounds like a real gem.</p>

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<p>I agree that your son is a real gem, has a lot of insight, and very supportive of you!</p>

<p>I just knew this was more about her than it is about you. I am glad that you were able to sit with her and have this conversation. I am sure that cleared up a lot for both of you.</p>

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<p>I am wondering if your husband would be happy if he wasn’t doing what he was doing. My job is also very demanding, and each year I just get more and more responsibility. But the thing is I do like it. I wouldn’t be happy if I was working at a less demanding job. Having my husband home allows me the freedom of focusing fully on my job, and it is a luxury. I am less anxious or stressed than some of my femal colleagues because I know if there is an emergency at home, my husband would handle it. When he needs to travel or be out of the house for his work, he is totally responsible for arranging for our younger daughter’s care. I don’t have to take time off from work, and I think it’s part of the reason why my firm is comfortable in giving me additional responsibility. I do appreciate my husband’s contribution to our family, and I tell our girls’ that constantly.</p>

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<p>cronie,
That sounds like a great, helpful conversation with both your kids. Glad you were able to connect/discuss about those important issues.</p>

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<p>I would suggest that your D work before having kids. I am pleased as punch to be a SAHM and find it very fulfilling. But I worked 13 years before retiring, the last 5 as a corporate attorney in a big law firm. I’m certain that I would not have felt the same way about being a SAHM if I never had a chance to get an education and work at a challenging job first. I think women may feel differently if their situation is thrust on them rather than being one of choice.</p>

<p>But having been in both worlds, I have to say that I find being a SAHM very fulfilling. It’s been a blessing to watch the kids grow, to help neighbors and friends, and to provide community service at the school. Plus, there is time for personal fulfillment–I have a chance to play on 1-2 tennis leagues a week pretty much all year round.</p>

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<p>Oldfort, you touch on something I’d been thinking about recently, in part thanks to this thread. And that is, that my H is happy. Even though he goes off to work every day, and even though he gets paid and I don’t, he still is one of those lucky guys who gets paid to do what he loves to do. So when I start feeling guilty because I have so much freedom, I have to remember that both H and I are thrilled to be doing what we want. </p>

<p>His paycheck is critical to our lives, of course. And if he had to stop what he was doing and learn how to – put roofs on houses or something to pay the bills, he would. But we are both very fortunate to get to do every day what we love to do. It only gets confusing when someone decides that because I don’t get a paycheck, my work has no value, and because he does get a paycheck, his work can’t be fun.</p>

<p>I love the comment a page or two back about knowing the price of things vs. the value of things.</p>

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<p>Cronie, these are the difficult years with the kids. Sometimes you just cannot win with them. If you’d had a super career, then you did not spend enough time raising your kids. If you stayed home and gave them your time and efforts, you were “just” a mom and haus frau. If you worked part time, you did not juggle your time properly and “settled” for a not so great job, and were a not so great mom. It’s just the way it goes when kids get into those mindsets. I would not pay the comments any mind. What you have done, is done whether it was the right or wrong way to go.</p>

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<p>Wow, your son is insightful! And I’m glad it’s all worked out with your daughter.</p>

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<p>What an insightful son you have!</p>