<p>I’m a student and I made my parents read Andi’s entire thread about her son’s disappointing experience. Personally, I am going to look at the college application process much differently as a result, and I’m very grateful to Andi and all the cc parents for their honest and direct advice.</p>
<p>I also want to say that I don’t think Andi has anything to apologize for AT ALL. I have been reading these CC posts for almost a year, and “picking up the pieces” was the first one that inspired me to post.</p>
<p>To the contrary, I think Andi’s honesty and willingness to share her story was incredibly helpful because it underscored an important fact about the college application process. What happened to her S could happen to anyone. </p>
<p>Not completely sure, though, that anyone was really criticizing her posting. This is a unique forum for communication and things that are said in one spirit may be interpreted quite differently.</p>
<p>Whatever…I’m keeping my fingers crossed that andi’s s gets off the waitlist(s) this week and ends where he belongs. I’ve got a good feelng about it.</p>
<p>Dear Andi, Not only was your thread appropriate, but it was extraordinarily helpful. Don’t go, and please keep us informed.</p>
<p>Andi, thanks for starting this thread. I only read part of your thread regarding your Ss situation and like others I sympathized with what happened and hope good news comes from the WLs.</p>
<p>I was without my computer for a few days so I am clueless about what happened to cause Marites decision to leave CC. I am VERY sadden by her decision and I fervently hope she will reconsider and comeback. </p>
<p>Alumother, I agree with your assessment of how certain threads can turn mean-spirited. It is so much easier to blame others than to look inward at ourselves. And unless I have miss read Xiggi - I think he usually does a good job in helping CCers view a situation for all angles.</p>
<p>Andi
I rarely post, but I have been checking this board regularly for news of your S. I thought the post was genuine and instructive to the juniors.The number of people who have been following shows how much interest your post inspired</p>
<p>Andi,
I think your post about your son was one of the most helpful and informative posts ever on this forum. You posted for help about a very real problem, and you ended up helping countless others. Absolutely nothing to apologize for! I’ve been away from the boards for a few days, and am in the dark about whatever spatting might be going on, but you are a very respected poster, and again, have helped many, many others by sharing your family’s struggles. I am rooting for your son everyday, as so many others are as well.</p>
<p>I also thought Andi’s thread about the plight of her son was the most informative and instructive I’ve read on CC. I’m still pulling for her & her son and look forward to hearing some good news soon.</p>
<p>Wish<em>it</em>was_April said it all, better than I could :):
</p>
<p>Andi, I also do not think you need to offer any apologies to anyone. I think your situation was valuable to share with other CCers. However, anytime any of us post on these boards, we should be aware that we can get an unkind response. It can be useful at times to hear the response because it gives you an idea of what some people are thinking when you share the situation with them, and they may not be as honest to your face. When you are talking about highly selective college admissions, you strike a raw nerve in many people who would otherwise be sympathetic about a situation. So, although I feel Xiggi was not very considerate to you in his post, he was giving an honest response that would not be atypical from many people. If such posts were censored, it would not give everyone the full range of reactions from those on the forum. I would not take it personally. I can tell you that I have seen posts that could have been directed at any number of my plights in life all in vitriolic tones that could be hurtful if I took them as such. Though I did not think they were directed to me, they certainly applied to my particular situations. And, there is often a ring of truth in them. Posters have railed against people with lots of kids–what do you expect in terms of lack of time and money when you have so many, as one example. Yes, it is true that when you have many kids you have more chances of problems and it does cost more money. But there is no reason why someone with a large family should not vent on the board about cost anymore than someone with one kid. ANd there is advice that can help either situation. </p>
<p>In some ways you get a more realistic view of what people think when you post a problem on a board because of the anonyminity. But I can tell you that sharp remark is not necessarily indicative of a mean person. My husband is one of the most tolerant and sympathetic people I know. However, when he reads about a problem or situation, he does tend to cut to the chase, and answer it without a personal bias. Whereas, I am not as nice about a lot of things, but I look at every query as a challenge, and try to come up with a solution without commenting on what I might think about the situation. An example would be if a student cheated and got caught–what should he do. How I feel about cheating would not be my focus in my reply, but what the student could do now to mitagate his predicament would. My husband would tend to say, serves you right, you cheated. Yet, he is probably the more forgiving of the two of us in an actual incident. </p>
<p>I have never personally known anyone who did not get into any colleges, however, I know many, many kids each year who have choices (or one college) that they really despise. They did not think for a moment during the entire process that they would end up at this school. So effectively they are in the same situation that you and your son are. I know your son could get in somewhere–there will be a list out soon with colleges that still are taking apps, and if your son really wants to go to college next year, he will be scooped up at anyone of those schools without a problem . So to me, not having an acceptance in hand was a detail.</p>
<p>I too am pulling for your son, and hope he clears one of the waitlists, particularly his favorite one. I do want to suggest that he look at Goucher, as well. A couple of young men I advised applied there, and though I don’t know if they are going, they are seriously considering it after a visit. The school is a good admissions deal at this time for the quality of courses and offerings.</p>
<p>Jamimom,
Great post, as always but I have a question for you about something you said. Here’s the quote, “although I feel Xiggi was not very considerate to you in his post, he was giving an honest response that would not be atypical from many people. If such posts were censored, it would not give everyone the full range of reactions from those on the forum”</p>
<p>This is a little confusing for me because it seems you are saying it is OK and even desirable on this forum to be “honest” even if it means being hurtful. And that the responsibility is put on Andi to “not take it personally”.</p>
<p>I’ve heard the comment many times on here, “Don’t post if you don’t want feedback”, but sometimes I think people use that as a license to say anything without regard or sensitivity for the individual problem. I liked your illustration of how you and your husband might respond differently to a situation. What it made me think though, is two things:
- I believe sometimes we need to respond differently to posters who are posting about an emotional problem - I don’t think it is a time to foist your way of dealing with problems on that poster - suggestions maybe, but done gently and with respect. And sometimes it is a good idea to keep your thoughts to yourself.
- There is a distinct difference between factual/opinion threads and emotional, “I need to vent or want support” threads. And then sometimes there are threads, probably like Andi’s that contain elements of both. </p>
<p>To someone like your husband who might speak honestly and say about cheating, “Serves you right, you cheated”, I would suggest that he not respond to that thread and use his rational, intelligent way of dealing with an issue for one that could use that kind of thinking. (I’m just using your examples to highlight the issues and am not speaking to you personally Jamimom)</p>
<p>The issue of the ‘what went wrong’ criticism and the athletes issue are two separate items. The athlete debate came up on digmedia’s thread, not on the what went wrong thread.<br>
xiggi’s criticism of me- whether you choose to believe it was directed at me or not; I happen to think that his choice or words was more than coincidence- came out of Marite’s goodbye message. He was basically saying that people like me, who have posted a problem and have requested help, are driving people away. I think it’s interesting that there was a very similar situation where angstridden was complaining about GPAs and xiggi stepped in. angstridden requested that xiggi not post after him/her again. It seems to me that CC has hitmen to get rid of people like us. It’s interesting to me that xiggi is more tolerated with his negative views than others are.</p>
<p>andi,</p>
<p>More general reflections on the current status of CC are being addressed on the “little of this–little of that” Parent board so I hesitate to bring it back to a specific incident/thread since I think you overwhelmingly, including from me, received positive responses.</p>
<p>I don’t pay enough attention on CC to remember which persona belongs to whom or which posters are combative, calm, interesting, or a combination of all of these traits. I did look at xiggi since you brought it up, I don’t know if he is or isn’t any different than the rest of us (a reference to my OWN substandard behavior that I reflected upon on the aforementioned “little this” thread), however, I do note that he is 18. This is a parent board and I have found myself assuming all the posters are parents when that is not the case. We may in fact be more tolerant of the younger ones, again not necessarily offering anything relevant on this since I really have no clue if any persona is more or less of a certain trait. We are all imperfect humans functioning on an imperfect communication vehicle. Reread what everyone has said about your post and let that support settle in.</p>
<p>Xiggi’s comments were not personal, Andi, but the repeated ad hominem responses of you and another frequent poster suggest to me that his general point about the lowering of the tone here are well-founded.</p>
<p>Andi, I had made a point NOT to further answer to this issue, but your last post forces me to answer. </p>
<p>For the thord time, I will ask you to read exactly what I wrote in my posts. I will also ask you to acknowldedge that I NEVER commented on your early threads, if it was not to offer my sympathy. My post on the Marite thread is NOT about your personally, as it adresses a combination of threads and posts. Please read my post again: I did not say that there is no place on CC for empathy or symapthy, please my comments about lending an ear or a shoulder. My comments related to several things: One, I commented about my opinion behind Marite’s retirement: that the board was no longer educational NOR fun. I also said that CC is not ONLY about discussing emotional posts. And, then that there is a time to move on. Lastly, and the most important of all, that people, when soliciting advice or opinions, have to accept that the opinions will have a wide range and may be almost entirely opposed to the original poster. Over the years, we have seen the same pattern repeat: a poster has a “bone” with something and decides to VeNT or RAGE about it. As long as the opinion is supportive, things are good. As soon as posters get fed up or disagree, the OP becomes combative. As far as the issue with Angstridden, feel free to PM and I will gladly point out the reasons behind the discussions, as well as point out how the vox populi of this forum reacted, and what was the outcome. All I have to say, is that you picked a rather poor example to support your position. While I do not hesitate to speak up, I do not tend to do it without reasons or ample documentation. </p>
<p>If you check my history, I have been relentless in pointing out that threads that pretend to complain about DISCRIMINATION, always end up criticizing and offending another particular group. My disagreement with YOU has nothing to do with the angle you have decided to push. My disagreement stemmed from your subsequent ATTACKS in the Digmedia thread. Again, if you read my posts, I believe that I acknowlege both your frustration and your disappointment. However, you ought to consider that pointing the finger at “others” who seem to have benefitted from preferences invariably offend students who happen to be part of these groups but made it on their own. I take the same unforgiving view on threads that carry notions of entitlement. Simply stated, there is NOT a single student who is entlited to ANY admission based on his or her academic curriculum. Every year perfect 1600 and valedictorians are rejected in masses. My point is that the system has always been unfair, but is as just as possible. The selectivity of the schools establishes the numbers, the process of selection does the rest. It is a fact that many well qualified candidates do not make it, but that is no fault of the ones who get the nod. I just do not see how the diminishing or demonizing the accomplishment of others creates a soothing balm for anyone. </p>
<p>All of this said, I have no problem whatsoever if you decide to keep on singling me out for my comments. I would, however, ask you to correctly quote me or point out to the precise threads where I made the comments. You will see that I do not waffle about my opinions, but that I speak up about issues and not individuals. You would be very hard pressed to find ad hominem attacks or individual namecalling. Feel free to try to protrait me into someone I am not … I won’t go in a lenghty rebuttal, as my record speaks for itself. If you believe that the balance is overly negative, there is nothing I can or will do to change your opinion. Nor will this change my posting style: I address the issues for which I feel I should share opinions, and those are rarely of personal nature. I will also continue to post about the direction taken by this board. While it is an ever evolving community, I am entitled to voice my opinion. It isyour right to disagree with my opinion, or simply ignore me. If you feel that my opinion is a veiled personal attack, there is a great tool that is available to ANYONE: that is the reporting tool. </p>
<p>This should be especially helpful to report a self-serving and arrogant individual.</p>
<p>andi, I can tell you why I personally allow xiggi some poetic license. I don’t feel he needs me defending him, but will put this out there anyway, for the newcomers. Xiggi contributed last year in a big way when he was going through the college application process. Hundreds of posts. Lots of tips on how to study for the SAT’s, for instance-- very useful stuff for a lot of kids. He developed respectful back and forth posting relationships with some of the regulars, e.g., Thedad, Marite, Mini–all of whom had no problem pointing out instances in which they disagreed with his point of view (no name calling involved, no personal attacks, but not shy to counter his ideas/arguments if they felt need). There were some long political discussions that I stayed completely out of, but took note of.</p>
<p>He also is 18. I have sons around Xiggi’s age. Tact is not their long suit. So perhaps that makes me a little more tolerant. I also know that Xiggi had a rough start this year–death of a best friend, a serious illness. Knowing his history, I cut him some slack from time to time in the tact department. There are some other helpful, but sometimes brutally blunt posters here that I have come to admire, even if I have been “stung” by the tone of their posts at times. It helps, IMO, to take into account the history of a poster, and contributions made to the CC community, not judge by one or two barbs or posts.</p>
<p>And again, guys, when we must make “ad hominem” (I think that means to the man) comments, maybe a PM is best? Yes, no, maybe so?</p>
<p>Nice thought, Alumother, but an ad hominem (yes, literally “to the man”)comment substitutes personal attack for answering an opponent’s contentions–hardly suitable for a pm, since it is by its nature it is an appeal to the emotions or prejudices of others, rather than the intellectual appeal of a reasoned answer to particular points you disagree with.</p>
<p>Well I guess that’s what I mean. If you want to substitute personal attack for a reasoned, or even an emotional but non-personal attack - don’t:). Imagine you are sending a PM and see if you still want to say it. I don’t expect that everyone will suddenly become rational at all times. It’s more like we could put that e-rubber band on our wrist and snap it on ourselves when we are readying for a personal vs. logical attack on someone’s argument.</p>
<p>Yeah, I’ll certainly agree with that!</p>
<p>The problem with anonymous forums, such as this, is that there are always individuals who, in this setting, feel freed from the polite boundaries of normal discourse. The veil of anonimity may unleash unpleasantness from someone who is mean or is perhaps playing the devils advocate. We really don’t know for sure, if anyone here is truly and honestly representing themselves. We want to believe it is so, especially if we ourselves are being entirely genuine and I think most who post here are. We begin to feel like we have a ‘relationship’ with others who post, but we really don’t. They are not friends in the true sense of the word, we don’t know them. Andi, please do not listen to harsh words of others. You seem to be a very genuine person and your posts reflect your angst over a situation we all would dread finding ourselves in. People are entitled to their own opinions. When you lay bare your thoughts and feelings in an anonymous public forum, some people may be harsh. Think of them as small and let it pass. We are all pulling for you and your son and hope you let us know the outcome. He has many talents and you as a caring parent are helping him through these tough times and he will ultimately be stronger for the experience.</p>