<p>How do cash-strapped kids even meet other people once they’ve graduated from college? S is now working in a small office, so dating someone there could be awkward (if not against company policy). He doesn’t have the disposible income to join a gym. He’s shy so the bar/club scene isn’t really for him. Other than meeting people through friends, what else is there?</p>
<p>When I was in grad school I knew a couple of very nerdy guys. They were sweet, but you couldn’t imagine either of them asking a woman for a date. Well, they didn’t have too. Both went home (to India) for a break and came back with a beautiful, smart, and charming wife his parents had found. I felt sorry for the wives who had to move to a foreign country and live with someone they barely knew. But I’m sure these guys did a lot better than they would have if left to their own initiative.</p>
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Online dating.</p>
<p>S told me most of his friends who work 12 hour days get their dates online. They even exchange templates for introductory emails. Most aren’t looking for serious relationships though, just casual dating since they spend some much time working.</p>
<p>My D who had more dates in HS than H and I together in our lifetimes, is finally getting married in a few months. She broke up with guys we liked in college and had several 2 yr relationships with guys we didn’t approve of once out of college. She went back to grad school, had a year long relationship and now marrying someone she met through friends.</p>
<p>My S also has a GF, the first long term relationship he’s had since college when he dated someone for 3 years. When they graduated, their focus on getting a career (he to IB and she to Harvard Med) eventually broke them up.
Coincidentally, his current GF is also a MD.</p>
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<p>In the NYC area, the saying that 30 is a bit of an understatement in some parts. Many late 20 and 30something men and women are in no hurry to conform to social mandates to marry/settle down ASAP…or never intend to in the first place. </p>
<p>As far as I’m concerned…more power and a great huzzah to them…especially considering that to many other parts of the US and even more so in China…dating/getting married in one’s late 20s and up seems to be disdained as being a mark of a “late bloomer”. </p>
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<p>Indeed, many people are happy living lives as long-term/permanent singletons. Some of them are good friends of mine who have gotten quite fed up with societal and familial pressures to date, be in long-term relationships, and/or get married when they just don’t feel like it at that point. Some prefer to casually date for the rest of their lives…sometimes well into their 70s. </p>
<p>Everyone is different. Thus, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that not everyone is going to adhere to the same social scripts as the majority. And they have the same right to enjoy exercising that choice without opprobrium from others. </p>
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<p>One thing I’ve heard from many older adults who had a broad array of life experiences and later confirmed by my own experiences is that one cannot rule out or minimize the possibility the parents of a given person may be nuts of one variety or another. </p>
<p>In my case, that came in the form of many college classmates who cut off all relations with parents because their sexual orientation, political, and especially religious worldviews changed or were always diametrically opposed and the parents tolerated as little dissent as your garden variety religious theocracy or tinpot authoritarian/totalitarian dictatorship. </p>
<p>In their situations, cutting themselves off from parents/family was the only way to preserve their well-beings by escaping toxic familial environments they were forced to endure for the first 17+ years of their lives. </p>
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<p>Here’s an interesting essay which addresses some of the reasons for the above:</p>
<p>[Why</a> Nerds are Unpopular](<a href=“http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html]Why”>Why Nerds are Unpopular)</p>
<p>I’ve also exhibited some of those traits though that has not impaired my dating life during late college or afterwards. Granted, a part of that may be I tend toward the extroverted end of the spectrum…but I tend to prefer being analytical/rational over the emotional or mindlessly conforming to popular social rituals. </p>
<p>All of that was placed into context and an “A-ha!” arose when a Myers-Brigg test I took in college pegged me as an ENTJ. </p>
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<p>Indeed. For those with above-average intelligences and analytical mindsets…learning those skillsets is very straightforward once they put their mind to it that in retrospect…they’re glad they didn’t dedicate time during high school/college to doing so. As far as they perceived it, it would have been a huge waste of time at those earlier stages of their lives. That…and why would they want to imitate the very people who they may have not identified with at best…and at worst…felt were acting like complete immature buffoons and/or may have subjected them to physical violence?</p>
<p>OT, but a reaction to Cobrat’s post^
How can I put this… without, well…
Connecting with an active and intelligent mind is a must in my personal experience of attractions.
Of course, YMMV, lol!</p>
<p>Also, there was that thread about “marrying down.”
I think that relative intelligence is another “level” to be considered- was there already a thread about how hard it is for a couple to be happy if one is much more intelligent?
Yes, there are many types of intelligence, so maybe this question needs to be asked in terms of each type of intelligence…</p>
<p>cobrat, I think there are lots of bright kids who don’t know how to relate and who would be immensely happier had they learned social skills earlier (or, in some cases, at all). I was certainly in that group. My father was a brilliant man (recognized by Nobel prize winners in his field as brilliant) who would probably have been diagnosed as high performing Aspergers or something like that. The implicit message I got at home (more from my mother than my father) was that my job was excelling in school and I took on that task, but I would have been happier with friends as well. That all changed in college, but with my conscious choice to learn social skills. And, I’ve been happier ever since. I’m delighted that my kids have deep, rewarding friendships. I made such friends, largely in graduate school, and those friendships have enriched my life since then.</p>
<p>performersmom, you should come to my house to see different kinds of intelligences at work. I’ve got a PhD in a STEM field and was told by someone who did testing that my capacity for abstract thought was at the far end of faculty members he’d tested at this Ivy university. My greatest intellectual skill is making connections across fields. I can’t do much with my hands though. My wife is a gifted painter, dyslexic, bright, with phenomenal social skills. She can’t do directions (a cinch for me) or structure extended logical arguments but she can make anything with her hands. The mechanical world just comes to her intuitively.</p>
<p>HAH! I am definitely at your end of THAT spectrum!!
I am a “big picture” “abstract” and “logical” thinker constantly reviewing patterns and intuitions for revised conclusions… I am obviously nowhere near as talented as you, but I know what you mean.
!You and your wife complement each other perfectly… but do you get along?! (wink)</p>
<p>When I became a SAHM, saddled with all sorts of household projects, lulled into many handicraft clubs for other women, trying to support my kids with Halloween costumes and cupcakes, something every week-etc. etc., I felt SO USELESS! I always say I do need to start all over again and go to a Waldorf School, I think. (Note, I also cannot really touch-type and constantly make typos, even though I love to write and use words- YIKES!) Is there a spectrum for those with no hand skills??!</p>
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<p>Knew a college classmate who recounted that the great gap in intelligence between his parents was one factor in the serious marital problems they encountered in the middle of their marriage during his elementary school till late high school. It also didn’t help that both couldn’t understand/relate to each others hobbies…especially considering one of them was the “kill your television” type whereas the other enjoyed watching TV…and not strictly for educational PBS type shows. </p>
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<p>You have a point here. However, my point was mainly addressing them in the dating/romantic relationship context. Most of my HS classmates and many colleagues had no problems building friendships…but they tended to be heavily dominated by those with similar “Nerdy/Geeky” interests…whether it is computer science/technology, aviation technology, literature, theater, music, and/or history/politics. </p>
<p>Also, for most that I’ve known…dating/romantic relationships were often seen as huge “distractions” from academic/personal development goals at those earlier stages. That…and the possibility of having to imitate the stereotypical “popular” jocks/cheerleader types would be far too revolting to consider…especially if they actually experienced bullying at their hands or observed a few recent presidents/politicians* in action. </p>
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<li>Granted, many HS classmates would actually take being compared with a politician or being urged to go into politics as a serious knock on their intellects…even when it was meant in a complimentary fashion by well-meaning parents, older relations, etc. I don’t agree myself…but can’t really blame them considering recent history.</li>
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<p>cobrat - I think you make a lot of generalizations here.<br>
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<p>People can date, have healthy/rewarding relationships and still do well in school/work. As a matter of fact, when people are in a good relationship, they tend to be happier and have more drive in their work. D1 went through college with 2 long term relationships and is currently in one while she is working 14-16 hours a day. </p>
<p>It maybe hard for you to believe, but people can be attractive, a cheerleader/jock type, still be intellectual and do well at school. Both of my kids were well liked in school (not sure if they were popular),and they managed to get 4.0. They had an active social life in school, as well as doing a lot of ECs. I don’t quite get this - if you are smart then you must be a nerd and not have friends and not date.</p>
<p>Loving this thread! </p>
<p>Oldest DD (21) is definitely one of those late bloomers. Her college group of friends has a mixture of gay/ambiguous men and those with long term GF’s from HS. I know she has had crushes, one recent one that was a long time friend ended badly when she told him about her feelings. Turns out, he has been in a secret relationship with another male student and her friends knew but were afraid to tell her that is why he turned her down. She said she feels better knowing! I know she has had a casual FB thing with a guy she worked with over the summer. He is older by a few years and I am not sure where that stands right now. Maybe in grad school she will find someone…</p>
<p>Youngest DD (17) is on her 3-4th BF in a couple of years but her first serious one. I have tried to like him but currently we are not speaking due to her blatant disregard of the rules we set long ago regarding curfew etc. She is very upset that I have grounded her completely (outside of going to dance or work) for the next week and a half. The BF does not live in our town or go to school with her so she feels this is a good excuse to break our rules. I have heard from her that he has been in trouble with his guardian for similar things (although his rules are much more lax).</p>
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<p>First, you’re talking college, not high school. In the experiences of most HS classmates & myself, we actually found we had more time to date/be in romantic relationships in college because the academic workload was more manageable, there wasn’t the peer pressure disapproving of dating as “frivolous”, worries about becoming teenaged parents with bleak futures<em>, and we didn’t have to deal with long commutes to/from school.</em>* In short, most of us more than made up for that in college and once we entered the workforce. </p>
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<li>Went to high school in a period when sex education was just getting introduced and there was still widespread fears that getting involved may risk one becoming a teen parent…especially considering many of us had siblings or neighborhood friends who became teen parents.<br></li>
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<p>** Up to 2+ hours each way on mass transit. </p>
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<p>I know they exist, but they seem a distinct minority considering all the firsthand accounts from most college classmates & colleagues of high academic achievers(a.k.a. Nerds/Geeks)…including themselves being bullied and even beaten to a bloody pulp by those who fit the stereotypical bullying jock/cheerleader types in their respective mainstream American high schools. It didn’t matter whether you fitted the stereotype of the “Nerd/Geek” lacking social skills…if you were an academic achiever/“smart”…that was enough to get you labeled as such and bullied/beaten to a pulp accordingly at those mainstream school cultures. </p>
<p>All of their accounts made me glad I didn’t attend a mainstream high school where athletes/cheerleader types seemed to be glorified over top academic achievers and where in too many cases…the school’s athletic teams got the lion’s share of school funds over essentials such as teacher pay, textbooks, co-curricular activities, etc. Most of us had enough of a taste for that type of bullying/being ignored in middle school to realize a mainstream high school wouldn’t work for us. </p>
<p>Heck, in the words of one older alum at our HS…it was the math/debate teams and Westinghouse finalists/semi-finalists who were lionized and the athletes/cheerleaders…especially football players who were ignored/regarded with unjust skepticism regarding their intellects despite having taken the exact same admissions test as the rest of us. </p>
<p>Granted, the last bit may have been an unjust reaction from being subjected to incessant bullying at the hands of those fitting the stereotypical jocks/cheerleaders to a T during their middle school years.</p>
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I think you are in your 30s. I am in my 50s, and I had sex education in high school.</p>
<p>D1´s circle of friends were mostly athletes - lacrosse player, ice skater, field hockey, dancer (my daughter), soccer players. Most of them continued to play in college, few of them were recruited athletes, and they all had very high GPAs and great test scores. They were very main stream, and didn´t feel excluded or ignored by other students because of their academic achievements. I am not using D2 as an example because she is not going to a high school in the States, but while she was going to the same high school, it was also the case for D2. </p>
<p>Cobrat - I think your experience is kind of lopsided. From reading your posts, you seem to have a real angst of your high school/college experience.</p>
<p>cobrat,
I think your HS experience is very unique as you went to a NYC competitive admission science high school, no?</p>
<p>Shawcross, re your post #66, those survey results cracked me up, though I’m sure the comedy was unintentional. So if my daughters channeled their inner engineers and transferred to MIT where the gender ratio appears more favorable, their classmates might be at least temporarily asexual?
As it is, they’re surrounded by art majors, who - according those stats - are probably ALL fooling around, or trying to impress the survey-takers.
But seriously…I’m very grateful they’re not interested in the hook-up culture (yeah, I know I’m the mother, but I don’t doubt the truth of this) and so far not into the friends-with-benefits culture either. The oldest once received an incredibly clumsy offer (in a very public place) that way from a guy she liked who didn’t share her feelings. This did give me a chance to spout an item of maternal wisdom that I think she took to heart; don’t ever get into a sexual relationship with someone when you already know that you care and he doesn’t.
There must be something between impersonal sex and lifetime commitment…a pleasant and non-traumatic, if not profoundly meaningful relationship would be a reasonable “starter”.</p>
<p>Interesting topic! I just spent time “trapped” in snack bar duty with a bunch of other Moms and this topic came up when one Mom mentioned her daughter has never had a date. Not surprisingly, others chimed in that their kids either haven’t had a BF/GF or that they date rarely. My observation is that most kids in high school seem to think every other kid dates a lot, but in reality, most kids don’t. It is just that those who do have a steady BF/GF stand out and everyone notices “the couples”. TV doesn’t help as it sends out the message that you are a freak if you don’t date in high school!</p>
<p>We never had set rules regarding when our kids could start dating, but we also never encouraged one on one relationships in high school. My kids are all over the place. S1(27) is a social butterfly and has had a LOT of dates but few girlfriends. I can’t see him ever getting married; too self-centered. D1 was very shy and didn’t date in high school and little in college. After college she met her best friend’s brother and is now married to him. D2 dated a lot in high school, but only short term. Now has had 2 long term relationships, and the current one is pretty serious. S2 is still in high school. He has a group of good friends that includes girls, but he wouldn’t tell me if he did have a girl friend. I know he has had a few and I see him with a lot of girls when I am at school events. He is really busy with school and sports so really doesn’t have a lot of time for a girlfriend, which is the way I like it! I think it is so much better for kids to just do things in groups and not have the pressure of a BF or GF in high school.</p>
<p>Wow. I could have started this thread – in fact, I almost have a few times. </p>
<p>My daughter is 23. She’s never had a boyfriend. She went on maybe two dates in high school, and I think had a few dates in college. I am 100% sure she’s never had a long-term relationship.</p>
<p>I totally agree with those who said it’s healthy to have had relationships. But one of the things that I’m sad about is that no one (other than her parents) has said “I love you” to her. </p>
<p>And the other thing that bothers me is that whenever I talk about this with my friends, they pooh pooh me and tell me I have nothing to worry about and she’ll be fine. I have many friends who are single, and I know that one can be very happy never being married. I just want her to experience love, and being loved. </p>
<p>So thanks, to everyone who has posted here with similar situations. It’s nice to read that I’m not alone.</p>
<p>OMG, you people are miracle workers! Ds2, a HS junior, just texted me that he is going to a friend’s house tonight to watch a movie. It’ll be some couples and then him and “Sally.” I said, “That sounds like you and Sally are a couple. Just sayin’ …” ;)</p>
<p>Regardless of my interest in matchmaking for D, the reality is I have tried (and failed) to set up friends, and she would definitely kill me. Which would hurt.</p>
<p>Very touching post, fireandrain – especially about the “I love you” part. </p>
<p>D is 19; no boyfriends or dating experience that I know of. I think her age group moves in groups. I definitely agree – you need the experience of being in a relationship a few times before you “settle down”. You can’t learn everything from google or YouTube.</p>
<p>Wow, it’s great to see this thread.I spend way too much time obsessing over this. D is 22, a senior in college. Very outgoing with lots of male and female friends. She has had zero boyfriends, went on one date in high school and maybe 3 in college. She’s had several guys who liked her a lot, but she wouldn’t give them a chance. I think she likes guys who are “out of her league”. The “dating” scene at her college seems weird, though. It’s either drunken one night stands or kids who meet and bond and date each other exclusively. Anyway, it’s great to hear from other people about this. I thought I was the only one.</p>
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<p>My son is not even 20 and he didn’t have sex-ed in his public high school. Texas remains an “abstinence-only” sex-ed state, which is no sex-ed at all.</p>