At what price to I buy love?

jessiehl · May 19, 2008, 4:42pm

Where did you get “16” from? That doesn’t apply to me, and I’m assuming, perhaps wrongly, that it doesn’t apply to the daughter.

To the OP: Perhaps you could soften the blow by offering jobhunting advice, or suggestions of fields or places where she should look for a job. I realize that you don’t want her to go on the trip that the job would be funding, but this isn’t just about the trip, it’s about her financial independence.

Do you know that the man has not offered to pay for the trip? Perhaps he offered and she refused.

soozievt · May 19, 2008, 5:01pm

As far as the big age difference, sure, I would not love the idea either. But again, that’s where some advice may come in but still that is not up for your approval given her age/adulthood. I also do not know how well she knows him if she has spent very little time in person together (if I have that correctly). So, yes, I’d have some concerns but again, would discuss that with my daughter but could not rule over her on that matter.

One thing I do not get…is how you say that the relationship between your D and you/Dad may be severed if you cut her off financially. I don’t think anyone is suggesting to cut her off entirely financially while a student. I realize we all do things differently but I venture to say that in essence my family does what a bunch of families on CC do which is we pay for college and the related expenses during the SCHOOL YEAR (some of us do more than others…some have their kids take out loans, some pay for their kids…some give allowance, some kids have to do that with own earnings). But essentially, most of us help our kids in some form or another while attending college. But I venture to guess that a majority of us here do not fund the college aged kids summer plans. Most college kids work in summer often to earn spending money for the school year or else to gain experience in their field, or whatever. As I said, my kids work in summer in their fields and earn what it costs to live wherever they are for the summer (and could do that cheaply if they opted to get a summer job at home but they choose not to and that is OK with me). My kids either have been able to break even by working a summer job and paying what it costs to live where the job is or fly there or whatever and sometimes they earn over and above that.

But the point here is that making your D pay her own way for her summer vacation is rather typical and is NOT akin to “cutting her off” entirely. You’d be supporting her while in school. You may opt to help a little over the summer such as for food if you prefer. But I can’t imagine saying she can do whatever she wants all summer and you’ll fund it and she doesn’t even have to work or anything, now that she is in college. And so, I think you need to sit down and discuss that you are still financially supporting her but she is required to work in summers to fund where she wants to live in the summer (and whatever else) unless she opts to live at home. Saying you can’t fund summer plans is not the same as cutting her off. In fact, what do you expect to do when she graduates? I know that when my kids graduate, they will be expected to fund their own lives. We have been extremely generous in funding all of their college and graduate school (and with massive loans to do so) and all the related expenses. I don’t consider myself “cutting off my kids” when they have to pay for their own summer plans IF they live away from home (they could live at home in the summers for free) or I don’t consider that it is “cutting them off” if once they get their final degrees, that we expect them to support themselves.

So, in YOUR case, I would not tie anything to the boyfriend but simply say that she is now responsible for summer expenses if she doesn’t live at home and to expect to be responsible for her own expenses upon graduation. If your D doesn’t want to speak to you after such a decree (which is typical of what most of us here do with our kids), then she needs to grow up and/or go to a counseling session with you and your husband as this is NORMAL to expect a college kid to work in summers or to fund their own vacations. It is not leaving your D to fend for herself all year. She has to start at some point or will be at a loss come graduation. Even for her resume alone, she should have some work experience in summers.

I agree with Jyber about not needing to meet every boyfriend. My younger one has had several boyfriends (about one per year) and I have met them on visits to her college. I know that she met the parents of her current boyfriend as they came in for his graduation this past weekend. But I would not expect a boyfriend to fly to where I live to meet me unless we are talking serious long term relationship.

I would have some reservations about your D’s boyfriend to commit to a summer living with him if they have not dated much in person yet. I would definitely discuss those issues with my D in such a scenario but would not rule over her. My kids maintain their own living spaces even if they sleep with boyfriends. Getting a place together involves a certain commitment and in your D’s case, I don’t know how well she knows the guy in terms of daily contact. Again, I would advise but not forbid and I would ask her to fund her own summer if she doesn’t want to live at home. Don’t you think it is time for your D to work in summers? It isn’t about love and support but it is about making her grow up to be the adult she now is.

motherwise · May 19, 2008, 5:01pm

To jessiehl:
If he had offered to pay for the trip, she would not have refused. I don’t know where things stand, maybe since I last spoke with her, he did offer to pay.

I wish I could be of some assistance in helping her find employment. Its tough out there. I really don’t have any leads for her, other than to tell her to seek temp work.

While I don’t know anyone who can offer her a job, I did offer to fund research that I would like her to do for me. She was not interested.

soozievt · May 19, 2008, 5:08pm

While finding a job is not easy, millions of kids do it. My kids each secured well paying jobs in their respective fields this summer with no help. This is something you can guide your D with…look over her resume…discuss where to look for jobs…but it is time she learn to do this. She should do this even if she did not need the money. My kids are not working just for the money but for the professional work in their fields to build their careers. Even if NO boyfriend was in this picture, I would advise that for your D.

Northstarmom · May 19, 2008, 5:12pm

I agree with soozievt.
Also, until you place some financial restrictions on your purse strings – such as saying you’ll pay for college, but nothing else – your D will have no reason to work. Why should she? She’s living a nice, comfy life without working. However, without a job history, she’s going to have a very hard time finding a job after graduation.

There are plenty of people with mental health problems who are able to support themselves including in professional jobs. Since your D has the ability to go to college – away from home at that – she has the ability to work a job.

Yes, she will become angry at you when you start holding her accountable for more aspects of her life. But your choice is to either suffer with her anger now or have her become an adult who is incapable of taking care of herself including when you’ll no longer be around to help her.

If she’s intelligent enough to be able to handle college, she’s bright enough to be able to find a job, including without your help.

soozievt · May 19, 2008, 5:33pm

If you forbid to let her be with the boyfriend, I can see that causing a major rift.

BUT if you simply say that she must work in summers and pay for her summer if she opts to not live at home…I do not see how that should sever the relationship you have with your D. You’d be merely parenting her in a typical way with normal expectations of what you fund (the school year) and what she funds, summers away from home. You’d be guiding her about building her resume as well. None of this should cause a relationship cut off.

Forbidding being with the boyfriend is a different story. You can advise on that but not rule on that if you want to maintain your relationship. You don’t have to fund it, however.

nngmm · May 19, 2008, 5:40pm

I think there are two separate issues here - one is your approval/disapproval of the relationship, and the other is the finances.

I don’t think it would be wise for you to interfere with the relationship, unless you feel that your D is in some sort of danger. It seems from your posts that this is not the case.

I think it is perfectly reasonable - even generous- of the BF to offer your D to stay with him in the summer, but not offer to fly her there with the kind of semi-relationship you are describing.

As for financing the trip - I think it is a delicate issue. We gave our kids allowance during the school year, because we did not want them to spend time on meaningless jobs while we are paying their very expensive tuition. We wanted them to spend their time getting the education we were paying for. On the other hand, if they chose to have a job because they found the experience valuable, it was up to them (both worked as TAs at some point as a result). We did not decrease our support if they earned more money, and we did not monitor how they spend the money we gave them.

If they wanted to come home for vacations, we paid for their tickets. If they went anywhere else, they had to fund their own activities and flights. Some of it involved visiting SO we did not particularly like, but it was their decisions to make (and their money - even if some of it came out of our allowances…)

The best way to preserve your relationship with your D is to give her the autonomy and not force her to come home if she does not want to. If you give her money during the year, and she saves it for the trip to BF, I don’t think you should interfere. But you certainly should not be obligated to fund her “summer with BF”, and I think she’ll accept that

cathymee · May 19, 2008, 6:28pm

Are there really mothers here who wouldn’t care to meet a boyfriend significantly older than their daughter whom the daughter is planning on moving to another location entirely and live with for a period of time?
Maybe I’m the crazy one but I wouldn’t feel comfortable sending off a daughter in that situation, whether she’s footing the total financial bill or not.To me it’s not a question of the finances but of my D’s safety and well being.

motherwise · May 19, 2008, 7:03pm

I am neither forbidding her to see the boyfriend, nor getting involved in this relationship in any way. I just don’t agree with her staying with him over the summer. So I don’t want to fund it.

As far as finances are concerned, she has a credit card, which she has not been abusing, though perhaps thats because she knows we see all the transactions on the card. I gave her cash earlier this year, so that she would not have to worry about money.

But I never infered in any way that the cash was to be used for trips to her boyfriend. Its to give her peace of mind that she is taken care of, and nothing else.

Cathymee,
As far as her safety and well being. I agree with you. I wrote that, to the best of my knowledge, the man seems OK, based on what my daughter has said about him, and what I have learned about him by googling him. That is not necessarily my private opinion of him. At the very least, I question his judgement.

But I’m not sending her there. I am not part of this descision, other than to feel strongly that if I dissaprove of something, I don’t want to fund it. But I also want a relationship with her, which I am afraid I am going to lose in the long run if I don’t give in to her.

soozievt · May 19, 2008, 7:12pm

You see, I would not tie in that you won’t fund her trip to the boyfriend’s with your disapproval. To me, they are separate. You can discuss issues she should think about in terms of moving in with him for the summer. That is one thing in itself. But of course, you can’t interfere but you can guide her with advice and leave the decision to her. That guidance should be more raising some questions rather than disapproval.

But to me that is not tied to the funding. I would tell her that you will not be funding her summers at all from now on unless she lives at home as it is time for her to get summer jobs to pay for her summer experiences away from home and to earn some spending money of her own and also the necessity of acquiring a resume so she will be more employable down the line. I’d tell her that has nothing to do with visiting the boyfriend and that no matter what she chooses to do this summer, if it is not at home, she is expected to fund it. If it is at home, you’ll pay for food/shelter but she needs to get a summer job or internship. So, I would be very clear that your not paying has nothing to do with approval of spending summer with the guy. In fact, I would say she is WELCOME to spend the summer with him or with whomever or wherever but that you are no longer funding summer excursions and living expenses if away from home. Tell her she is free to visit him and stay with him. That way, you are “permitting” her to go but saying the free summers are over if not at home. The two issues are not connected.

The way you are discussing it will appear that you are pulling funding due to disapproval of the summer with the guy. I would allow the summer with the guy (while raising questions and good motherly advice before she goes ahead with it). I would explain that summer funding and funding after graduation are on her dime if she lives away from home and so help her to come up with a plan to secure a job to pay for what she wants to do.

In my view, then it is more of a nonissue. She can do what she wants but she has to pay for it. Seems fair to me. It seems how it should have been even if she wanted to spend the summer anywhere else with no boyfriend. If you tie funding to the boyfriend visit then you are saying you will only fund summers if you approve of them and that would indeed cause a rift. Rather, the free cash to go on trips and have fun all summer should end and she should be expected to get a job or internship. She can do that at home or wherever she’d like. You don’ have to approve of the plan.

jasmom · May 19, 2008, 7:15pm

Are you saying that if you don’t give your daughter the $ to visit her boyfriend, she will cut ties with you? Hmmmm… If that’s true, the relationship you have sounds pretty lopsided.

cptofthehouse · May 19, 2008, 7:17pm

Again, I agree with Soozie. What’s that song…“Can’t Buy Me Love”? Really, with my 5 kids, the few times I have funded things when I did not like the idea have not lead to anything good. If you are not on board, then don’t do it. But don’t tie it to the relationship. I’ve been a loser that way too when I don’t like a girl or a relationship.

soozievt · May 19, 2008, 7:22pm

I don’t truly understand this. You likely will damage the relationship if you don’t give into her visit to the boyfriend’s. But you need to stay out of that decision other than offering motherly advice and making sure she has considered every aspect of that decision. So, you ARE allowing her to go.

If you are saying that if you do not fund your child’s summer (whch is totally separate in my view), that will sever the relationship, I don’t get it. You don’t owe an adult college child funding for vacations if she chooses to not live at home. That plug should be pulled regardless of boyfriend. If your D doesn’t want a relationship because mommy and daddy won’t fund her summer vacations, she needs to grow up and gain maturity in attitude. I don’t know many college kids whose parents fund their summer trips and such. Again, do not tie summer funding to the boyfriend approval. Tell her that no matter WHAT she does this summer, you won’t fund it as she needs to get a job to fund her summer and to build her resume.

cptofthehouse · May 19, 2008, 7:29pm

Ummm. Sometimes kids do get used to mom and dad funding things, especially if they have always been doing so, and the family has the means to do so. It’s not easy to suddenly throw down the gauntlet and say, you gotta earn the money when that has not been the tune for years, maybe a lifetime.

But in this case, there seems to have been some expensive issues lately and it may be wise for you to explain that she is going to have to start earning her summers now, as things are getting tighter. That this is really the next step to adulthood and maturity. It is not right for mom and dad to fund a relationship. Soozie is right when she says that plug should be pulled at some time. My son wants to do a travel to Europe bit, but doesn’t have the money. Well, with my first one, I am afraid I would have funded it. Funded WAAAAY too much for him. Now, though I would love to fund it, I am telling him that he has to earn the money. Start working double shifts, double jobs after graduation, and use that money for the rest of the summer for the trip. No more freebies here, because there are just too many other potential expenses that are family now has.

soozievt · May 19, 2008, 7:45pm

You also could transition this. For instance, you could give her a food allowance for the summer but she has to fund the airfare and spending money by getting a summer job. I’m not real clear at what point you expect her to start using her own money for certain things (like vacations) or after graduation? Believe me, I spend a TON on my kids. But they don’t expect me to fund the summer plans or their vacations away from home like I did the first 18 years. I already pay for tuition, room, board, allowance, clothing, car insurance, books, travel home, etc. But the extras are now for them. I am willing to house and feed them if they take summer jobs at home. Taking jobs in the summer in other states or countries is their choice to do (and I truthfully support that choice but then they have to pay for it). They can come home over school breaks but if they want to take a trip some place (my younger one went to London and Amsterdam in Jan. for example), they pay for that with the money they have earned. I already think I do more than many parents. It is not like I am suggesting being a real meany here. But your D has to transition into adult life. If you are funding the entire school year, don’t you think she should fund vacations she is choosing to take or don’t you think she’d benefit from getting a summer job both for the experience and the money she’d earn? Ya know, if she gets a summer job that is a low paying internship that will help her career, then maybe I could see helping to supplement it with food money or something like that if you can afford to do so, but the expectation is that she find work for the summer and again, this is irregardless of the boyfriend. I would keep that expectation totally separate and the permission to spend the summer with the guy is separate too. Otherwise, you come across as willing to fund her summers depending on whether you approve of her choices.

cbreeze · May 19, 2008, 7:56pm

Motherwise, I agree that you shouldn’t fund her summer plans. You have said that your D’s BF is now agreeing to pay for her ticket but you are worried that she won’t find a job for the summer where he lives.
Well, perhaps that is a good thing. Over the summer, if your D doesn’t hunt for jobs but is living off him, perhaps he will find out that your D is not the type of girl that he wants to continue a relationship with. He breaks up with her, end of that problem.

BCEagle91 · May 19, 2008, 7:58pm

[Where did you get “16” from? That doesn’t apply to me, and I’m assuming, perhaps wrongly, that it doesn’t apply to the daughter.]

7 decreases as a percentage from the base age.

motherwise · May 19, 2008, 9:23pm

There is a lot of good advice in this forum. I am going to take the advice and separate the boyfriend from the summer plans.

I would help her out if she managed to find a low-paying job that would help her career. I do know she has been trying to find such a job, but has not been successful.

Thanks for the good advice.

Consolation · May 19, 2008, 9:27pm

Re the man not paying: an obvious possibility is that he is happy with a relationship at a distance, and SHE is the one who wishes to go stay with him.

I completely agree with those who say that it is time to cut the purse-strings, at least insofar as summer vacation is concerned. Your door is always open to her, of course…but that doesn’t mean that you continue to be blackmailed into funding her whims with the threat that she will “be upset and blame you” or “interpret saying no as loss of love.” That is simply BS and emotional blackmail at its worst. According to that standard, very, very few parents love their children.

I would add that I have known a few relationships that involved significant age differences that were very successful. But I have to say that I am generally suspicious of men who want to have relationships with much younger women. I have found that many are immature, overly obsessed with physical appearance, and afraid to deal with a woman who is a peer.

momofnewP · May 19, 2008, 10:02pm

Did she meet the guy on the internet? Can you do a background check on him?

At what price to I buy love?

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