“No riots, no property damage…no headlines, not even bylines”
Police kill more whites than blacks, but yeah, that’s not much of a headline. Men, women and children, elderly, handicapped, mentally disabled. Many in the commission of a crime, but some because of incompetence, overreach, or just being in the path of a bullet. It is sad that often police officers reach for a gun as their first course of action, instead of their last. If only someone could hurry up and invent an effective nonlethal weapon, as apparently stun guns aren’t doing the job.
idad, no doubt Charles was already soft in the head by years of a wealthy upbringing (I’m assuming, he’s a white guy who went to Harvard, right? Must be), and all that intellectual fluff floating around in his brain. So it probably didn’t take much to damage his spinal cord.
I understand what you are trying to say - a want to reduce deaths by being shot by police. No argument there - but the numbers indicate otherwise in terms of how bad the actual scenario is.
What I mean is that this:
is not supported by this data:
It does seem that police are rather restrained in shooting if 19 of 20 never fire their gun at anyone. And the stun gun thing is really not a solution because of the fact that gang members and real criminals have real guns. Stun guns are just not that effective in practice.
“It does seem that police are rather restrained in shooting if 19 of 20 never fire their gun at anyone.”
If they were showing as much restraint as they should, innocent people would never get killed. 1 out of 2000 shooting their guns would be far better than 1 in 20. They should never fire their gun unless they are convinced that they or someone else is in immediate, mortal danger.
“And the stun gun thing is really not a solution because of the fact that gang members and real criminals have real guns. Stun guns are just not that effective in practice.”
That’s why I said that someone should hurry up and invent an EFFECTIVE non lethal weapon.
Let’s not forget that all of this started because Gray ran from police after they began to pursue him for looking at them funny. He wasn’t being sought out on a warrant, and he wasn’t being accused of any crime. He looked at them funny.
I dont care what he had pending, there is no reason why he shouldve wound up dead. But the facts have been released that he only had a pocketknife on him, so he definitely shouldnt have ended up dead. The news is already reporting that officers have witheld information regarding the number of stops they made. Fortunately, a cctv caught it, and its in the report. If they are going to lie about a stop, I can only imagine what else they are lying about.
I never once mentioned the race of the cops. Personally I think police militarization is out of control, and it needs to stop. Dishonest cops come in all colors. And for the record, there were Black cops involved in the Gray case. I just want them punished. Black/Hispanic cops who patrol impoverished Black neighborhoods are not immune to thinking of the residents as “less than”.
There was a clear video in the Eric Garner case, along with a coroners report that he died due to a chokehold,(which is forbidden) and yet the cops still werent indicted. In addition, they cops then went after the guy who filmed the incident. He was just released recently. They even went as far as to feed him poison at Rykers. So excuse me if I dont believe in the veracity of cops. So we need more than cameras. For starters, there needs to be independent investigators.
"Fleeing from police is not, by itself, illegal in America, and the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that in safe neighborhoods, people not suspected of criminal activity can ignore a police officer who approaches them, even to the point of walking away.
But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity.
This double standard is having a major impact as more black men die in encounters with police around the country. Many have been shot or tackled while trying to flee. The court rulings justifying police chases in high-crime areas where many African-Americans live are contributing to a dangerous divide between police and citizens, said Ezekiel Edwards, director of the Criminal Law Reform Project at the American Civil Liberties Union".
“There was a clear video in the Eric Garner case, along with a coroners report that he died due to a chokehold,(which is forbidden) and yet the cops still weren’t indicted”
Wasn’t the problem with the indictment that they were only trying to indict the cops in that case for too narrow a range of charges? That sounds like a colossal screwup by the DA. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
[quote]
But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity.
[/quote]
So just standing on the street in the neighborhood where you live becomes "suspicious"... standing on the corner, making eye contact with a police officer....these are apparently grounds for being swept up, spending a day or two of your life in limbo waiting for a hearing, having a record for petty offenses.
I admit that I am a naive person when it comes to high-crime neighborhoods and what it’s like to police them. But jeez, do we have a Constitution that protects the rights of all Americans or not.
@busdriver11 I dont think the charges were too narrow. He asked them to consider manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. The problem is that grand juries only hear what the prosecutor puts before them. Staten Island is stacked with cops. Im sure everyone on that jury had a family member that was a cop. The prosecutor basically wasnt going to burn the cops that he needs to prosecute other cases. Thats why I said earlier, independent investigators and prosecutors should be involved.
The big issue is whether what happened to Freddie Gray was accidental or intentional....but it doesn't appear to be much of a "fluke." It's happened to other people given a "rough ride" to the station in Baltimore.
“So just standing on the street in the neighborhood where you live becomes “suspicious”… standing on the corner, making eye contact with a police officer…these are apparently grounds for being swept up, spending a day or two of your life in limbo waiting for a hearing, having a record for petty offenses.”
There was just an article (that I can no longer find) about the police culture in Baltimore. That the former mayor had wanted to improve the crime statistics, so they ordered massive sweeps to get everyone off the streets, based on the theory that if you put everyone in jail, there will be no crime. I guess that could work to make the statistics look better, but that is wrong on so many levels.
Five foot eight, 145 pounds, not particularly healthy looking, having an asthma attack, I could have handcuffed him and I’m in my 50s. A friend of mine, years ago and before cell phones, hung out quite a bit with police and jail guards and I would occasionally tag along. They would trade stories about “loosening up” the suspects who were not 100% compliant, a bit of street justice handed out quickly. I don’t know why people cannot fathom the frequency of such behavior - everyone in Freddy Gray’s neighborhood would expect this from the police. A college classmate was sitting in the back of a police car, handcuffed behind the back, when he decided he was uncomfortable so he worked his feet over the cuffs to get his hands in front. Yep, he was loosened up then recuffed.
And for those of you wondering, no, meth does not make a person irrational, it’s more like having 10 cups of coffee (never tried it myself, but I ran with a pretty low crowd when I was younger). Irrational behavior would come from PCP or LSD.
@zoosermom Yes, its common knowledge that Staten Island has a large percentage of officers. So its not far fetched that the jury pool will have immediate family, distant relative, friend or neighbor who is a cop, and they are likely to be sympathetic.Also Staten Island has some of the most sued officers in NYPD. And yes, prosecutors do it all the time. Where I live, the running joke is the DA, could indict a ham sandwich. Thats the nature of grand juries, the prosecutors present the evidence they want in order to get/or not get an indictment. Thats law 101.
So again, the DA and cops are too intertwined to be impartial. They need independent prosecutors and investigators too handle these types of cases.
partyof5, I was born and raised on Staten Island. I have known the DA personally for decades. You do NOT know why the indictment was not handed down. No one does. You are blowing smoke.
I’m sorry, I live in the NYC area and I liken the Eric Garner case to the Ethan Saylor case. If you are way overweight, and you have asthma, you are likely going to die if someone puts hands on you (barring my comment below about #99).
And the “chokehold” that everyone talks about is supposed to be a “cardiac control hold” which is applying pressure to the carotid to make someone pass out. It is not that easy with people who are overweight or struggling excessively. At least, the one that is supposed to be used legally by cops.
I feel that the chokehold part was not the cause of the man’s death - the guy in the 99 shirt had his knee on Garner’s head with his neck at a dangerous angle. Was he the main defendant?
However, if you watch the beginning of the video (I found it on The Guardian), the victim was definitely resisting arrest, complaining and using aggressive body language with police. Doesn’t justify him getting killed, but like Ferguson, wimpy cops are afraid of 300 lb. guys, especially when they are pointing and yelling.
(Why can’t there be a ticket issued for loose cigarettes? Why did there have to be an arrest?)