<p>I actually would be fine with half of it. There ARE a lot of lesbians at Smith; likely not as many as there are gay men at Yale, but still lots. The “awfulness” of it is a value judgment which every parent is entitled to make. (Parents who think lesbians - and their friends - are all going to hell should probably thing thrice about their d. even considering Smith, unless they are like the Cheyneys and wouldn’t mind their daughter going to the same institution as Nancy Reagan and Barbara Bush. And they certainly shouldn’t let SonnyBoy become a Bulldog.) (By the way, some of the reasons for this are, in fact, academic: Smith has arguably the best women’s studies, and Yale the best lesbian/gay studies programs in the country.) The thing is, I believe folks SHOULD go to W&L (or Swarthmore or Smith or Dartmouth or Harvard), but that they should be knowledgeable consumers. That’s why I think CC is such a valuable tool.</p>
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Do you have actual knowledge that this is true? That the girl you call a snitch is facing “palpable anger” at school for informing the authorities after repeatedly trying to get the school to enforce it’s own stated policies? Is that the appropriate behavior given the situation? What form has this palpable anger taken? Threats? Ostracism? Verbal abuse?</p>
<p>Thanks for the positive input Curm and Mini - Idad has NO clue except for what he chooses to READ!!! His lack of personal experience and horrendous attitude towards a highly ranked school as W&L indicates to me his lack of ability to realistically and adequately assess the actual qualities of the school - and count for very little - IMHO.</p>
<p>Tho haha - sorry to say i did READ today the article in a major newspaper - page 2 BTW - about the disatisfaction of the Harvard students - ranking at the bottom of a group of 31 elite schools - including all of the ivy’s/Stanford/Mit and others too - geeeeee whiz - taint so perfect is it!!! - the students feel neglected by the profs and don’t have as much fun as students at the other 30 schools - with actual data to back it up. A 21 page memo indicates students are unhappy with faculty availability, quality of instruction, quality of advising, as well as the sense of community and social life on campus!!! Gee - life isn’t perfect at Harvard after all!!!. (and these results from staff researchers to academic deans of Harvard itself!!! - interesting.) Why would I want to send my kiddo to an atmosphere like that??? uuuuummmmmmm</p>
<p>As far as frats/sor - W&L’s Greek system is a very unique one compared to other schools of that calibre. Are you aware that W&L actually owns the frat/sor houses themselves?? Are you aware also that every frat/sor has a live-in house MOM?? Are you aware that frat/sor houses are considered on-campus housing and that most members live there as part of the W&L room/board costs?? (great thing as W&L has a 2 year live on campus rule). Are you aware that the frat/sor houses are set up to support the technology that the school has in the dorms?? Are you aware of the community support that the frat/sor provide?? Yes - they do party in the frat/sor social life - and yes the school is well aware of the issues relating to Greek life in Lexington - but the school itself has much more control over the Greek system than any other school that I have seen. The Greek system there has many positive aspects - and yes - some negatives as well - as does every other organization - tho no where near as negative as at many other schools. W&L is a school also that is very financially sound - and does give back to its students - well beyond the efforts of many others schools.</p>
<p>As far as Princeton Review - ppffttttt - what they report on their surveys is done in a very unorganized - and to me unprofessional manner - whoever wants to respond does - you don’ t even have to attend the school you are reporting on to answer a survey - so it means very little in respect to the actual. I can just bet that the survey for W&L was filled by frat/sor members for the most part. Those surveys mean very little in the real world. Again - another thing to READ to add fuel to Idad’s fires. Blow smoke all you want - but again - until you walk the W&L walk - you have very little right to condem this fine school as you are doing.</p>
<p>Being that W&L is over 250 years old - as an educational institution - says alot!!! I think they can withstand negative attitudes such as Idad’s and will be still be around as an elite LAC for many years to come. Their philosophies and atributes have withstood the likes of nay sayers for many generations and will continue to do so long into the future - and the very strong positives of this school will long outway the negatives.</p>
<p>Kids who are applying to W&L and other schools of the same/similar calibre have a good clue as to what these schools really represent - hopefully far beyond the stats and garbage that alot of the posts on this thread represent.</p>
<p>If 71% to 88% of a school’s student body were lesbian (or left-handed Unitarians) and my daughter was not a lesbian (or a left-handed Unitarian), I would most certainly ask her to consider whether she would likely be accepted, rejected, or marginalized by the dominant social culture of the school.</p>
<p>To me, this kind of issue become very important, perhaps paramount, when a prospective student falls outside of a very dominant social culture at a school. It is less of an issue when the school in question does not have a notably dominant campus culture. For example, it would be hard to identify one group of students who overwhelmingly dominate the social culture at most large public universities. </p>
<p>For the most part, big clues about campus culture can be easily spotted from the percentages relative to other similar schools. For example, if we take two similar schools (size, academics) and one is 62% white and the other 88% white, we can be pretty certain that the campus culture will be very, very different. Likewise, comparing two schools where fraternity membership is 75% versus one where it is 10%. It is usually pretty easy to determine what clientele a college serves and, as Mini says, what a college WANTS to be.</p>
<p>Quote: “Likewise, comparing two schools where fraternity membership is 75% versus one where it is 10%. It is usually pretty easy to determine what clientele a college serves…”</p>
<p>I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS. What type of “clientele” would they be serving? </p>
<p>Never mind, I guess the “clientele” would be the drunken porn stars? I forgot, all fraternity members are the same. All fraternity members are the same, all fraternity members are the same…</p>
<p>1soc - haha - just LOVE it!!! rofl</p>
<p>Idad - and you have just NO clue do you?? uuummm</p>
<p>WW - i really wonder what you are thinking of all of this ruckus!!</p>
<p>LOL. 1sokkermom. It can be our new mantra, let’s throw a few oms in there- Ooom-all fraternity members are the same Oom…</p>
<p>D was as anti-sorority as they come but, interestingly enough-has felt most comfortable at schools that had a high Greek presence and overwhelmed by Greekness at other schools with a high Greek presence. Sometimes you’ve got to squeeze the Charmin.</p>
<p>I’m still perplexed by what I’dad called the “Great Pot Bust” ,specifically the treatment the girl he called the “snitch” received and may still be receiving at the school that he named. That “palpable anger” directed at the kid is the first scary-“Man, I don’t want my kid facing that” thing I’ve seen on this thread. </p>
<p>My daughter presently does not drink or smoke, I have heard her curse, and she is not a dope-smoker either. I have my doubts that those will remain the same throughout college age but I would at least expect that if she had complained about drug use and underage drinking parties in the dorm that the administration would have at least responded to her complaints. If not,why would their stated school policy be against under-age drinking and drug use?Is open drug use and underage drinking “permitted” at all college dorms even after the school has been notified and even when their policies state otherwise? Just asking because I can assure you, when the time comes for my kid to study and there is a bong and beer party next door keeping her from either doing that or sleeping-she’ll be all over them like a duck on a june-bug.</p>
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<p>Woah, back the truck up. Your question is predicated on multiple assertions that are not true as I understand the situation.</p>
<p>I think one perception on campus is that, if this girl wasn’t smart enough to figure out a half dozen people on campus who would be better to call than the Swarthmore Police, she may not be smart enough to be at Swarthmore. </p>
<p>For example, she apparently did not call campus security. Did not call the 24/7 Health/Counseling Center. Did not call the administrator on duty that night. Did not call the Dean of Housing. Did not call Bob Gross, the Dean of the College, at home. And, did not call Al Bloom, the President of the College, at home. Calling any of whom would have been preferable choices to the one she made.</p>
<p>Campus Security should have been a fairly obvious place to call upon being so overwhelmingly disturbed by a student in his own dorm room with his door shut on a Saturday night. The first call Campus Security received was from another student calling them to tell them of the police presence at the dorm.</p>
<p>I think the students are probably correct in their assumption that this girl knew exactly what she was doing in choosing to call the Swarthmore police rather than one of many obviously more appropriate on-campus authorities.</p>
<p>I’dad. Did you read the part about repeated complaints? I’d like an answer to my questions of how that girl is being treated because I am worried about things like that. Someone being singled out for abuse for asking authorities to enforce school and dorm rules, and, when her repeated complaints go unanswered, going outside the loop to have others do what the college should have done-that is kinda spooky. Did they at least give her a good coat before throwing her out in the snow?</p>
<p>“Obviously more appropriate” ,well -not to me but then again, I stayed in the South. You gotta cut me some slack. LOL. I’Dad. I didn’t mention the school name because I did not want this to turn into what it’s becoming. I did not know that you would pick up on which school paper and I’m fairly sure most posters wouldn’t have. You helped your D choose her school and acted in her best interest as a loving Dad. I will do the same, and I hope I can help my kid find a “fit”,too.</p>
<p>idad, if you broaden #64 to include academic emphasis, I agree. S loved the energy level at MIT, but when he found out the very high percentage of engineers, decided not to apply, as he did not want to be in an academic minority. </p>
<p>The definitive word on go with the flow for emotional comfort is Anita’s - “One of your own kind, stick to your own kind.” If students want to broaden their experience by being one of the ‘fringe kids’ (culturally or otherwise) at a college, that is a worthy goal, but they should be prepared for the type of introspection and reflection that is necessary when living in a situation where the predominating percentages are ‘not like me.’ </p>
<p>If you read the posts of CC college freshmen, you will notice that the primary complaint that bubbles up is “I haven’t found my niche” meaning sympatico group/friends/community. Some of them transfer for this reason. I do not think that this criterion for a good fit is overemphasized, quite the opposite.</p>
<p>In fact, as 4/1 is almost upon us, I have noticed my own priorities shifting along these lines - I have become a proponent of The Balanced Life, which to me means placing equal emphasis on the likelihood of finding compatible people, support for the beloved ECs, and quality of life, as well as the ‘business end’ - faculty/student interactions, quality of academic programs, and outcomes.</p>
<p>If you HAD to choose one or the other, would it be “I want my child to be happy” OR “I want my child to achieve his/her maximum potential?”</p>
<p>In actuallity - this girl had every right to call the local police - the law was being broken in several ways - she chose one of her options that resulted in action. Maybe her best choice would have been to call the schools security - but she chose to contact the police - who usually work with school security in the first place.</p>
<p>At many schools - there are rules against having any drug parafinalia in the dorms or on campus at all - period - let alone the use of drugs!!! and rules for NO under-age drinking allowed in the dorms as well - there are consequences for ones behavior. So… If an RA was available - they would have been responsible for reporting this behavior anyways - so why such a dump on this girl - just because she called the police for laws being broken??? There are some colleges that actually do turn their heads to this behavior - others act on it the way they should.</p>
<p>This girl has to live with her decision - and probably alot of negativity from her peers - for doing something - taking action. I actually would commend her for it.</p>
<p>yulsie, it’s no contest at my house. I’d choose the happy, D would choose the maximum potential. LOL. That’s why we will probably be wrestling in the parking lot of whatever college she chooses to attend (but in the end, I’ll let her win. I’ll just test her a little. Hey-I know it’s a bad plan. But it’s a plan. Everybody has to have a plan.).</p>
<p>Again, you are making assumptions that are apparently not true. The “word” on campus (which I obviously cannot confirm) is that the only campus authority this girl ever talked to was the dorm RA. </p>
<p>The “word” on campus (again, which I cannot confirm) is that the Dean’s office HAD previously chatted with the arrested student, which would, generally speaking, constitute the first step in a process of “doing something”.</p>
<p>Perhaps the girl had an expectation that the first step in “doing something” would be having the kid arrested or expelled, I don’t know. I don’t believe that would be a reasonable response by a school administration or one that I would applaud them for taking.</p>
<p>You are also leaping to the conclusion that this girl is being subjected to “abuse”. I did not say that, nor have I seen that reported. I said that the campus was palpably angry at the way the way the situation unfolded. Angry and “abuse” are not synonymous.</p>
<p>I’dad must be a Harvard professor or a snotty kid who has all the answers. Either way he has a lot of time on his hands with all the posts - 850+.</p>
<p>My excuse is that I have the flu today - so I have time to post.</p>
<p>He or she is definitely a Cambridge, MA kind of person. Or perhaps he writes for the NY Times or was on that 60 Minute crew that got the ax. </p>
<p>Either way it would be fun running into him/her or the student at a party.</p>
<p>My child is definitely going to school in the south. I’dad has convinced me.</p>
<p>
Would this apply to the students’ reactions to the girl at the school I’dad named? Are the “palpably angry” the predominant culture at that school or the “clientele” that school wishes to serve ? Or was this an isolated incident like the Nazi costume or the bigot at the student government meeting I’dad hung around W+L’s neck?</p>
<p>Many go to schools to reinvent themselves. If I want to become wealthy and travel in elite circles I can go to a school that has many of wealth where I will learn their secrets. If I want to become a lesbian I would go to Smith. I would do a smilie if I knew how.</p>
<p>yulsie - I think we got the best of both worlds - happy AND max potential - tho happy would win out if it were a necessary contest - cuz they would make the best effort possible towards the max potential in some way - they are go-getters in every sense of the word - open minded and have alot of respect for others differences and tend to grab the brass ring when it comes their way.</p>
<p>Turbo - haha - great choice!!! Both mine did and have come out the best for it.</p>
<p>Idad - obviously the RA didn’t do too much to support this student.</p>
<p>I would certainly hope that the ‘chat’ that was had with this student also included the fact that his actions are illegal and have consequences - if he chose to buck the system - no metter where it occured - tough luck for him. If ya can’t do the time - don’t do the crime!!! Guess he needs to grow up and deal with his behavior - he made the choices - not the girl who made the call.</p>
<p>Sure sounds like this was an ongoing situation and that others WERE aware of this problem. Too bad it couldn’t be swept under the rug - but hey - that is what rules are made for - so sure hope this guy thinks twice next time.</p>
<p>Her call was BY FAR not the first step - according to your account of this situation - it was already an issue. Sure - not what you think this girl SHOULD do - but obviously she felt the need to do what she did.</p>
<p>EVERY where you go - kids get arrested and/or expelled for exactly the same thing - this is no different from the actions of any other school. Look at the law - it is illegal what this kid was doing - why do you defend him??? I can be also absolutely sure that the schools handbook addresses these behavior as - and the actions that will be taken - including expulsion!!!</p>