I have worked at both but not an undergraduate at either. My take is Bloomington is the quintessential college town with a great close-knit sense of school spirit and campus culture. Drive out of town 5 miles in any direction and it’s rural Indiana (granted it is about an hour from Indianapolis). UMD is in a DC suburb, College Park is okay, and they have always struggled a bit with campus culture because it’s so easy for students to ditch a campus event and go into DC. Both schools are great but it depends on what your child is looking for.
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Your observations about Kelley are very much in line with what I see and hear about it in corporate banking world.
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Interested in your thoughts on IU Kelley, OSU Fisher, and Penn State Smeal.
@TheMobileMinecrafter and @Speers I am not ignoring you. I actually sent a note to our head of undergraduate recruiting to get some input and specifics about the schools you mentioned. I didn’t want to base my comments solely on personal experiences and impressions which may be dated. Sorry for the delay.
I will revert once I get that detail.
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This was written about Kelley students and it reminded me how extremely impressed I was with the students who spoke at admitted student day. The tone, articulation and engagement were top-notch. It was the best part of the admitted student day presentation in my opinion.
Yes - they absolutely work on these finer details and they have to dress in business attire on days that they are presenting. Having a suit is a necessity Freshman year at Kelley.
2 posts were split to a new thread: Schools strong in international business
If you have thoughts on Michigan State Broad, I would love to hear those as well.
Thank you so much for your insight.
For context S24 is choosing between Mich St and IU for finance, with a likely destination of Chicago post-college (open to the possibility of NY).
This is a very interesting topic, and might warrant its own thread? (I’m fine to keep it here if others are ok with it) I would also like to hear about your shop’s undergrad recruiting as mine does virtually zero UG in the US.
We are a wall street family, and while I can comment on finance, IB/trading, fin tech etc, I am a fish out of water in all other industries that have products to house/ship/produce.
We are evaluating the IBE program at Purdue, which looks like a stellar program. I surmise you go to Purdue b/c of the program and career opportunities, not for the weather, the girls by the pool (noticed for certain by S24), or the SEC tailgates. I went to school in the NE so these aspects at Purdue are not a negative to me, but today’s students have more options.
For context, the FI I work for has 50k+ employees globally, a CIB of approx 15k with 1,000+ in the US. In many ways our undergraduate recruiting is very similar to the dozen or so banks with similar footprints and we are keenly aware of one another’s work propositions and compensation schemes.
Primary opportunity for under graduate hiring is gaining an offer for summer internships as a rising senior. This is a highly competitive process with us recruiting in person on 12 campuses. The choice of target schools is revisited annually based on prior results including perceived quality and suitability of candidates, yield, eventual retention and competition to name a few. We fill approximately 2/3 of our summer program from these target schools while the remaining 1/3 finds their way through a variety of introductions.
We typically have a summer internship class of about 40 students. They are given limited training given the short period they are with us. Generally they are scored based on how hard they work, intellectual curiosity and cultural fit. At this point no one expects hard skills.
Shortly after the summer full time offers are made to about 30 of these college seniors. That number isnt set in stone but driven by our anticipated full time analyst class and the interns job performance. We will offer to as many quality kids as we think will “fit”. These students get priority because they have been in essence vetted and we tend to have a 90% plus acceptance rate. This is the risk of not getting a summer internship and the benefit of being at a target school.
Very shortly after this period, once we can quantify spots filled (I know this is backwards) we define total analyst class size.
For purposes of illustration let’s assume we had 40 summer interns and make 34 FT offers that results in 30 commitments. We would typically target a FY analyst class of 50 with 20 spots to be filled.
For those slots we return to target campuses but less assertively assuming that those available fell short somewhere else and weren’t offered FT. We simply dig a little deeper at targets and broaden our search to include all resumes we receive through various methods.
Last year we received about 1,000 inquiries for what amounts to 20 spots. We use a variety of human and system methods of screening and interview north of 100. Ultimately a cohort of about 50 are invited for a super day of interviews. If suitable approximately 30 offers are made (sometimes not all at once) with a commitment deadline. We keep going until the class is filled.
The class of 50 full timers are then part of a rotational training class and receive classroom instruction and hands on credit experience. This is an attempt to level the field for the humanities kid from Williams or Yale versus the Stern or Wharton kid.
Hope this helps and sorry if it’s a run on sentence. Hazard of composing a post on a treadmill.
Will revert on school specifics once I hear back from HR rep.
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Do the universities help you get matched for internships? Or is it done independently by the students?
Both - they have resources, contacts, and may be even host firms…but in the end, it’s on the student.
They have to apply.
Today, most of it seems to be happening on line - though company websites, linkedin job listings, indeed. That’s a general statement - as different industries may handle differently. Both my kids found their jobs via online job listings on indeed - my son with 20 interviews - but again, as I noted a second ago, that’s a general statement and not industry specific.
But if you look at Cornell, for example, overall - as they list the “how found” - the Internet is the how it’s happening.
In the end, no matter if a company is visiting online, virtually or simply posting for anyone from any school to apply - without the kid’s hustle and persistence, there will be nothing.
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When banks are interviewing on campus the resumes are submitted directly to the HR departments through the on campus placement teams. All of the screening is done by the HR and specific campus recruiting teams. These teams normally have a senior and junior alum so they are very familiar with the schools.
Given target school relationships tend to be long standing the students know about visit dates long in advance. I believe we commit to a date almost a year in advance.
We will typically get far more resumes than available slots. If the candidate pool looks particularly strong however we will send more interviewers but this really comes under the “it depends” headline.
We also in some instances offer large group information sessions. This was particularly the case when I was at large US I banks. The goal was to inform students, many of whom didn’t know the difference between I banking, financial markets or capital markets. In some instances these areas interview along different paths.
The schools largely stay out of the way and just facilitate the on campus access and facilities.
Hope this helps clarify.
FYI “how found” stats at I banks sometimes over represent “the internet” because the internet is the means to access alumni networks. A key to getting an interview at an I bank is often an internal supporter. This happens as kids use LinkedIn to reach out to alum at specific firms. In practical terms it’s the internet, while in real terms it’s the connection to a real life banker who attended the target school that produced the outcome. I think people who have never participated in this process underestimate the value of the alumni networks and the historical depth of the relationships to certain schools.
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Certainly lots of opportunities but students have to take initiative and take advantage of all that is offered.
Does where a school is located play a big part in which schools you recruit from?
Unfortunately the reality is it depends and is bank and college specific.
We (and most) recruit heavily at NYU and Fordham because of proximity and the ability to have some students intern during the year. Historically we have hired some strong candidates from Holy Cross so our recruiters coordinate a week at Brown, BC, Harvard, HC and Williams. It’s a combination of factors that brings us to each of those schools but their proximity to one another facilitates us going to all of them.
Conversely, that was a reason we dropped “on campus” for Cornell because it required almost 3 full days, we now just work with the job placement team to get resumes and arrange TEAMS interviews.
Some of the larger US Banks who have analyst classes of several hundreds have much bigger geographic footprints with multiple campus recruiters.
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Are you all pulling only from private universities? No state schools?
If so, not surprised, as many bulge bracket are quite “snobby” on where they will take interns for a front office path - Wharton, Harvard, Yale - others will add Ivy’s and Stern, but no UVA, Georgia Tech or even Univ of Chicago (anti-midwest haha). I’m not in agreement with that approach, but their loss.
FWIW my spouse just hired a genius from Purdue with a Masters from Stephens. He took the offer b/c it was more $ than an offer from GS. In our minds it’s Goldman’s loss.
We are on campus for both UVA and Michigan targeting finance students and are adding Kelly permanently having visited last year. I have personally not attended these sessions but know some of the kids recruited and they are very strong.
Ohio State Fisher recently added some faculty with extensive ties to Wall Street. Last spring they organized a “field trip” to New York and visited several banks. While not on campus recruiting these efforts have raised awareness and we will likely make at least one offer.
I was surprised to learn we only have 3 Wisconsin alum (none are recent grads) at the bank but none in client facing roles HR and IT. In addition, we have several recent grads (5) from both Rutgers and Penn State in a variety of roles but I dont have full detail as to how we found one another. One I am told has an MBA from stern and one attended a special recruitment event we host but the other three not sure.
I will ask around more when in the office today.
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Poets and Quants just came out with What It Costs to Attend A Top 100 (91 participated) Business School list. The COA at 20 schools is over $300K/4 years.
Participating B10 schools:
Michigan - rank 5; in state $141K; OOS $292K
Gies - rank 15; in state $162K; OOS $245K
Kelley - rank 14; in state $113K: OOS $217K
Minnesota - rank 24; in state $143K; OOS $222K
Wisconsin - rank 27; instate $116K; OOS $250K
Purdue - rank 32; in state $98K; OOS $173K
Rutgers New Brunswick - rank 44; instate $118K; OOS $185K
Michigan State - rank 55; in state $206K; OOS $313K - they put non-tuition expenses at $137K, what kind of meal plan gets served up there in East Lansing?..
Michigan-Dearborn - rank 71; in state $114K; OOS $173K
Rutgers Newark - rank 77, instate $118K, OOS $185K
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But don’t forget, several on the list give regular merit.
UMN, IU Michigan State. No idea about the last two.