We are trying to compile a list of top 50 undergrad business programs in a medium to large city that start in the junior year and to assess how feasible it would it be to transfer to them with 3,8+/4,0 at.end of sophomore year (ie apply next year} if son decides a rural LAC is not for him. So far Emory, Wake and W&M have come to mind: but are there others that start junior year or which would provide enough time/flexibility to finish degree in 4 years without having started traditional undergrad business core (other than intro to micro and macro and Calculus I and II)?
Is the student already in a business program - like a Bucknell - or are they in an econ?
A lot will depend on classes the school is willing transfer in. And no one here can say - youâd need a transcript review by each school. And to check who requires only two years on campus. I suspect the less selective (like a Tampa, the more likelihood of getting classes accepted). It may end up you need to not go business but work a few years and get that education via an MBA - just a thought. You can get a business career from any major!!
Is there really a difference between a #30 business school and #70? I donât think so. And then top 50 what? US News? P&Q? College Transition? In other words, if you said Colorado Leeds vs. Nebraska - I just donât see a difference and I donât think that employers would. Or UF Warrington and Oklahoma -
And what major? Some schools could be top 5 in a discipline but not top 50 in overall rank? Like Michigan State, ASU, UTK for supply chain or Arizona for MIS, etc. And thereâs more.
So I think thereâs a lot more to look at?
Also, what if the school isnât rural but is still an LAC? Would that work? Richmond or Furman, etc?
And then how about a Bentley or Babson - both outstanding - and in the Boston area? These are business focused vs. overall university focused - although both have cross registration for more classes.
And is merit or need aid a necessity? Or a certain cost?
W&M doesnât meet your need as far as medium to large city, at least as I would define medium or large city. I mean, itâs an hour or so to a medium size city.
Possible names to review - I left out religious names like Fordham, Santa Clara, Villanova, etc.
American
Arizona
Arkansas
ASU
Brandeis
Butler
Charleston
Cincinatti
Colorado
Denver
Florida State
Ga Tech
GW
Houston
Kentucky
Louisville
Maryland
Miami(FL)
Minnesota
Nebraska
Nevada - LV and Reno
North Carolina - Charlotte and Chapel Hill
NC State
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Pitt
Richmond
RIT
Rochester
RPI
SDSU
SMU
South Florida
South Carolina
Southern Cal
SUNYs - Albany, Buffalo
Syracuse
Tampa
Tenneesee
Tulane
Utah
U Washington
Wisconsin
Hope that helps.
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if you are going from an LAC to a business students who were an intended econ major at the LAC. Even if the new school takes 100% of the credits, many wonât fulfill the business core classes that the transfer school might have. At many schools, you wonât know until you are accepted, and sometimes even enroll, before they will tell you what classes will transfer, and if so, what requirements said classes will fulfill.
Is this exercise in case the student doesnât like being an econ major? If so, there are other majors at the LAC that can lead to business careers, depending on specific jobs of interestâŠstats, math, english, neuroscience, and many more.
Not sure Wake takes junior year business transfers (students start soph year there, after an internal application process), something to check.
Emory strongly encourages transfers to come in soph year. I donât think they take many junior level transfers, and the ones they do are likely hooked in some way.
Transfer applicants interested in Goizueta Business School (GBS) should consider the following when applying:
- GBS accepts accepts a small cohort of external transfer students each year. Students are encouraged to apply to start fall of sophomore year, although Goizueta will allow a junior year start for highly qualified candidates who were not previously studying business at their former institution.
Transfer Applicants | Emory University | Atlanta GA
W&M transfer admission to business is a competitive entry process, AFTER admitted to W&M:
Transfer students should apply to the Raymond A. Mason School of Business after being admitted to William & Mary. Students who have completed all prerequisite courses and obtained junior standing (as determined by the Office of the University Registrar) will be eligible to apply for competitive admission to the Raymond A. Mason School of Business; however, admission is not guaranteed. The evaluation of any transfer credit will take place only after a student has accepted an offer of admission from the University. Any questions concerning transfer students should be directed to the Undergraduate Business Program office at bba@mason.wm.edu.
The only prereq that will be difficult to get at an LAC is the principles of accounting class.
Personally, I wouldnât call Williamsburg a medium to large city either.
Your student will have to do this legwork for every school on the list. And even then, you still wonât know which classes transfer until late in the process. Honestly, itâs so late, that you may need to have multiple deposits out thereâŠit just takes so long at some schools to get these answers. At many schools, the student has to email each dept head with the classes they want to transfer, with syllabi, sometimes with a detailed write up with what they covered in the class. Iâve known students who transferred and the credits werenât clarified until sometime during their first semester.
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Wake Forest might not be a viable option. The university requires four prerequisite courses to be considered for admission to the business school, including Accounting 111. Admission decisions are made after midterm of the studentâs sophomore year. You might call the school for more information.
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Has your son started college yet? If not, I would not plan a college start with the intention of transferring.
It does sound like your student is a college freshman unless Iâm not reading this correctly. Some LACs punch well in terms of business. PlusâŠyou dont have to major in business to work in business.
Thanks for all of the input.
Transferring is not the base case at this point. Itâs contingency planning in case social/rural/cold setting conditions worsen overall happiness.
A few responses:
- International Business program currently.
- My bad for mentioning T50, good point; considering schools that would give a shot at I-banking and consulting, even if not target schools. Current school is not a target school.
- Current school offers accounting and would be taken in any case before transfer.
- Financial aid not a consideration.
- Point well taken re Williamsburg. A place not rural and with social things to do and mild winters (avg temps in 40s) could be good substitute tor largeish city. Current school is small, cold and rural, like most LACs.
- Only really would consider schools for which a formal business cohort forms in junior year, like Emory. I believe that is also the case for Wake and W&M as students apply sophomore year to enter junior year? Or schools that would allow the transfer even if that meant pushing back graduationa year. At Babson and Bentley, son would be too far behind other folks who have been immersed solely in business for two years.
- Transfer would be driven by social/personal considerations first; and preference for more practical courses as a matter of interest second. Again itâs not the base case but researching options. Specialized masters off the bat might be option, and obviously MBA after work.
- Letâs assume student is exceptionally qualified, as he is at this time.
Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses to date! Really appreciate them; especially the detailef information about Emory and others.
Religious is OK. Richmond OK, Furman not sure; none seems to be a target school for banks, however.
Other answers to all below.
Thatâs great, but do check if the transfer school will accept it (with all the caveats wrt to timing I posted above.) For example, for some schools a financial accounting class wonât fulfill a principles of accounting classâŠit can come down to the text used.
I am also pretty sure that financial accounting must be taken at Wake, as noted above, your S will have to call them to ask if they take junior transfers into business and what the requirements are. Iâd also ask how many transfer students they take into the business school.
Emory students can apply for goizueta for soph entrance, provided theyâve completed the prereqs and have completed 30 credit hours. BBA Bachelor Degree | Emory University Goizueta Business School
Wake and W&M cohorts start junior year. This says the business admit rate at W&M was 24.7% last year: Raymond A. Mason School of Business in the Top 10 Undergrad Business Schools to Watch in 2024 | William & Mary School of Business
Wakeâs admit rate is 70%ish, but different AOs have directly told me different numbers.
Note that these programs all have holistic admission. So, GPA doesnât always rule the day. The schools are looking to balance gender, race, income, first gen, major/concentration, etc in these classes. Every year, there are very high GPA and/or other wise highly qualified students who donât make the cut. Internal students have priority over transfers.
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So I banking is the goal. I didnât see that in the post.
The student would likely be behind recruiting - and even that is difficult if youâre in. Going to a Wake or Emory or WashU or NYU is certainly no assurance just like Va Tech isnât an impossibility.
At the same time, an Econ major may prove a more viable path to four year graduation and would give you more options/flexibility. As you know, Econ and even other liberal arts majors are a path that works.
Accounting is a phenomenal major - but whether itâs an IB path I donât know. Many business leaders, though, have accounting backgrounds. Itâs a fantastic major.
Just as an example, UNC would require these classes prior to admission for its business school which start Junior year.
- Calculus* (One of the following options: MATH 152, MATH 231 or STOR 113)
- Statistics (STOR 155)
- Introduction to Economics (ECON 101 or ECON 101H)
- Introduction to Business: People, Profits, Planet (BUSI 100)
I do think that this is a school by school case and I hope it works where your son is. That said, if a transfer is likely, perhaps sumner can be used to make up some classes.
Donât forget, some schools may not accept all the current classes and I think this is the âriskâ of the four year finish.
Best of luck. Check into U Denver. Solid business school. They place some - I confirmed with my daughterâs boyfriend. He does wealth management, not IB - by choiceâŠthatâs been his goal. Itâs a good name.
Iâm thinking - maybe not correctly - but privates and tier below - might have easier transferability.
A school like ASU has the IBIS program which has success and I recently saw them on the 2nd 30 target list but I donât know if you can get BIIS as a transfer. Btw those target lists - read the how they put them together. They are definitely not âexactâ - they track only a few firms.
I do think there is lots of research ahead to really answer your questions.
In addition to my list above, I think Fordham, Villanova, Santa Clara, Notre Dame, Holy Cross and more might be possibilities as schools with a religious bent.
Best of luck.
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I missed the IB and consulting targets. I agree the student would likely be behind in recruitingâŠhe will have to start networking/recruiting his soph year at the current school. He should absolutely try to get an internship summer post soph year whether finance or consulting related.
I want to also amplify that many students who go into IB and consulting were not business majors.
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OP here is a thread that may be of interestâŠ
Please let me know if I can try and answer any specific questions.
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I am just going to add a just little more on to your very informative posts regarding William and Mary and Emory. (I am an Emory alum with a kid at William and Mary- although he is not a business major most of his close friends and fraternity brothers are).
As you have pointed out, there is a competitive and holistic admissions process into W&M Mason. Students are able to apply after they have completed 54 credit hours. Most William and Mary students enter with quite a bit of AP credit which translates to a large cohort of students applying to the business school in the Spring of freshman year to begin in the business school the Fall of sophomore year. The vast majority of the freshman applicants will not get in but those that are rejected sometimes are able to start a business minor and will reapply for Spring entry. Although the acceptance rate is low, everyone we know was eventually accepted but in some cases they applied two or three times. The reality is that many of the students who start in the business school as juniors already have been admitted as business minors and are not really a new group entering the business school - although some will be. I will also add that although several of my sonâs friends were able to start in the minor and eventually gain acceptance to the major, I have seen a few posts on the parents Facebook group about students who minored in the business school but were never able to secure an acceptance into the major. Nothing is guaranteed. As you have already noted, transfer students are not admitted directly into Mason and have to go through a secondary admissions process.
By contrast, Emory will admit a small cohort of junior transfers directly into Goizueta. (I think itâs about 20 but donât quote me on that lol) However, aside from the fact that they are only admitting a very small number of business transfer students, they specifically state that they want students to complete the majority of their business coursework at Emory and that students who have taken a number of business classes elsewhere are not good candidates for transfer.
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Thanks for the insights, especially on the multiple applicationsâŠitâs good to know thatâs allowed because thatâs not the case everywhere. WRT to Emory, yes on the small group of transfersâŠI actually posted that verbiage above, and expect the vast majority of the junior transfer admits are hooked in some way. But, talking to an AO as well as students might help understand things even better.
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@gablesdad - you mentioned International Business. As you know, U of SC typically rates #1 or high in the major.
Here is their âminimumsâ for transfer into Darla Moore from outside - but again, that doesnât answer the four year question - and it might be you have to go go beyond. But perhaps thereâs a commonality of classes taken and U of SC.
They show IB analysts at Jefferies, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Santander and more via linkedin.
So maybe worth an investigation on your part. I had them on my original list - although the weather might not be cold enough for you. But itâs an example of a non target that might be less competitive on campus vs. other schools - might being the operative word - I donât know and Iâm guessing no one truly does. So much will depend on your student himself.
Good luck.
âAt this time, students are expected to have a cumulative college GPA of at least a 3.25 and have completed a college-level calculus course with a âCâ or higher prior to admission to the Darla Moore School of Business.â
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I will repeat a suggestion I have made previously for those trying to quantify a particular collegeâs foot print in investment banking.
There are approximately 400,000 people employed in America by Corporate Investment Banks (CIBs). Only approximately 40% of these employees however, actually work in areas like capital markets, financial markets or IB. Others are in a range of staff and support roles that are very important and highly valued but are not what most people would think of as bankers. Lastly, most entry or junior level employees are titled analysts or associates. In LinkedIn terms this generates a lot of false positives for those doing random searches.
Consequently, using a resource like LinkedIn to gauge a schools alumni network or placement track record is highly flawed. Invariably you will always be able to find a few profiles representing a given school, but those individuals are hardly indicative of anything.
IB recruiting for client facing roles tends to be idiosyncratic and unique based on a variety of specific historic practices built off of the use of target schools. Basing your opinions and or decisions of a schools IB placement capabilities on outliers can lead to disappointment and a false sense of opportunity. This is where the details matter and nuanced analysis and first hand experience can save you from disappointment later.
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I think doing a complete business core + classes in major in two years would be a tall order most anywhere. In addition, all general ed requirements of a particular school would need to be completed within the four years. For any college being considered, the student should be able to get the course catalog online and compare the completed coursework to the classes required for graduation to see if it is possible to finish up in four years.
To me it sounds like the best case scenario is that the student will be happy at the current college and complete a degree there. If a change of pace is needed from the small LAC, consider doing a semester or even a year abroad or at a partner US college and then returning to complete the one remaining year.
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Banking internships are typically awarded in the summer following the junior year with the hope of a return offer after graduation. However, recruiting for those internships happens during the sophomore year and is generally over by the time the junior year begins. DS started sending our emails and making cold calls in September of his sophomore year, interviewed in the following spring and summer, and signed his contract in July, all before he had started his junior year. Most his classmates followed the same path, though some got jobs in their junior and senior years. The cohorts form well before entry into business school, and students network and join business clubs and AKPsi (a business fraternity) during their freshman year.
A transfer after the freshman year would make more sense, IMO.
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If you do not mind me asking⊠What is the current college? What is the real driver of the potential transfer?
Would you position ultra high net worth wealth management analyst path at say JPM Private Bank right out of college as part of I-banking jobs for which being at a target school makes a decisive or very material difference? (As opposed to ending in Wealth Management after trying out corp fin at I-bank or AM analyst or other business tracks). I think son would be particularly a good fit for that type of wealth management or say institutional sales (the 60/hrs-wk world you can do in warmer weather) rather than cap markets/M&A/PE (the 80-100/hrs-wk world almost exclusively in NYC). Donât think he would be looking for back office roles either. I think this is the kind of nuance/detail to which you were referring.
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Driver is described above. Location/social scene. College âconfidentialâ re current college, not sure how that makes a difference either.
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