SMU Cox (BBA Scholar) vs W&L for Business

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S25 is probably down to SMU as a BBA Scholar at Cox or W&L.

Cost is around 50K for each, but will go up in his 3rd year when our D23 graduates, to the mid 60s for SMU and probably mid 70s for W&L. We can afford both.

Interested in business but probably not elite finance. He likes numbers, could see him in finance, economics, or accounting. He’s not sure, likes the idea of being an entrepreneur.

He’s an introvert who always manages to make a solid group of friends wherever he is. He doesn’t care about social status, just finding his people. He’s a big rock climber, would prefer a big climbing gym nearby (SMU has this, W&L has a small gym) but also likes climbing outside (W&L has this, SMU does not). Really into music, plays in a rock band with some friends, they’re pretty good. Likes music stores and seeing bands.

He’s moderate politically.

He is a non drinker and has a medical condition that makes drinking a bad idea. He would not rush at SMU. He probably would rush at W&L and be interested in one of the “nerdier” frats.

He’s concerned about the size of Lexington but likes the idea of a smaller school and good relationships with professors as well as being able to take lots of different classes. I think he also feels like W&L is more prestigious.

He really likes the strong business program at SMU and the BBA Scholar program, internships etc, but is concerned about the overall social scene at SMU.

Edited to remove Furman reference. Probably not really an option.

Thanks for your thoughts!

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Calling @DramaMama2021 and in particular @cinnamon1212 both of whom have real time first hand experience.

Congratulations on several great options. FYI while I have no personal ties to either SMU or WL both schools are highly respected and recruited from by CIBs , which is my profession.

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Congrats on the acceptances. I’d have your son check into the undergraduate business offerings in your son’s areas of interest at all three schools (particularly Furman).

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Thanks, I think Furman is more a me thing than a him thing. I probably shouldn’t have included it. They do have a growing business program, particularly in entrepreneurship, but it isn’t on par with the other two.

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You mentioned your S was admitted to Cox at SMU. Does he also have a direct admit to the W&L business school? If not, is there a weed-out process to get into the b-school there? FWIW, I place significant value on having a direct admit.

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I believe that anyone can major in Business at W&L provided they maintain satisfactory academic progress.

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My personal opinion:

SMU is more “well known” than W&L - and I mean that as the school in total. W&L is a great b school program - but the name in general is unknown. SMU is a well known name - not a reason to pick the school. I say that knowing W&L is more selective and higher ranked in most that include both in the same rank. But it has little name recognition.

Lexington isn’t much - outside right down from the campus which is pretty cool. I think relationships with profs happen anywhere - if he makes the effort and will at both.

I’m not sure Furman will meet his needs academically - if they include accounting. business administration, finance, marketing, business entrepreneurship and international business. They don’t show career outcomes for business. I would ask specifically - % employed vs. seeking, salaries, job titles and where.

I put a generic career outcomes for the school - a ton go to grad school - and business kids shouldn’t…so…that might be a concern.

I put SMU as well. Theirs is a bit more descriptive.

W&L has a school one - not business - so again, you need to dig deeper. Ask the school flat out. They should have.

Does W&L fit academically? My neighbor did accounting there and ended up with an MBA at Vandy. But I don’t see all business functions on their webpage.

From a pure I want to study business, and I’m just looking in from the outside, but it seems to me SMU would be the most “traditional” or safe path.

But that’s why I’d ask these schools - especially W&L and Furman that don’t provide detailed salary and job title/location info for it. I’d ask SMU for the same - they give the salary but not much else.

The other thing he can do is ask to speak to a student ambassador at each school.

Of these, we applied to and visited W&L (self toured due to covid) but met a prof on campus and his family, chatted 30 minutes, and the campus is gorgeous. And everything from @DramaMama2021 and my neighbor and others I’ve heard from makes it seem super awesome.

As far as rock climbing goes - perhaps the gym (SMU) is important - because how will he get to it even if it’s available?

Just some things to think about.

FIRST DESTINATIONS SURVEY

Undergraduate - Employment Outcomes - SMU Cox School of Business

Alumni Outcomes Six Months After Graduation : Washington and Lee University

Major Requirements : Washington and Lee University

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Thanks, SMU does provide some granular outcome info by major and I believe S25 found some for W&L business majors as well, they were pretty similar.

I should also include that I’m a W&L alum and was also a business major. I went into marketing not finance and I’m much more on the creative side but I did have a great academic experience.

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Aren’t you a W&L alum, @Izzy74?

My oldest son graduated from SMU Cox with a major in finance (or maybe even commercial real estate finance)and a minor in French, and my youngest is about to graduate from W&L (though as a STEM major).

I think you have a good understanding of both schools. Going through your post, to me it seems like temperamentally W&L might be a better fit. There is more of an emphasis on social status, appearance, and partying at SMU (eg the tailgate scene (“Boulevarding”) let alone the fraternities).

In terms of being in a band, my W&L son’s fraternity has a “house band” that is quite good, and I’m sure other fraternities do as well. I am sure your son could join the band if he wanted. Very fun — it is a thing when they play at parties etc.

You probably know about the Outing Club at W&L which is quite active, if your son was interested in doing other outdoor activities. I don’t know what SMU offers wrt that sort of thing.

Moderate politically would fit in at both schools.

W&L is more prestigious. Edit: although Cox, within the larger SMU is very highly regarded too.

My sons got to know professors at both schools. My youngest is closer to his professors though at W&L — he knows every one in his department, he was tapped by one prof who taught him to do a paid summer position researching coral reefs in Belize. Fantastic opportunity. My oldest got his job at Goldman Sachs because his SMU professor contacted a friend at Goldman and said “You should interview this kid”. Another fantastic opportunity.

My view of the two schools is colored by my sons. SMU was a great fit for my oldest, who was very interested in the social scene, liked to party (too much, in my parental opinion), and knew he wanted to go into finance and commercial real estate before he stepped foot on campus.

My younger son is more of a straight arrow; he is an athlete so doesn’t party too much, wasn’t sure what he wanted to do before he got to W&L, loves his fraternity and has made a really solid and wonderful group of friends. I do know a bunch of them are business majors of one kind or another and they seem to have landed well for the most part.

If your son would like to speak with my W&L son PM me and I’d be happy to put them in touch.

Both great options, but very different, as you know!

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Although one is a university and one is a LAC, I’d consider SMU and W&L to be academic peers. And since both have business programs that sound like they suit your S, I’d really recommend that he focus on fit. There are enough differences between the two options, that one should feel right to him. If it is possible, consider re-visiting both for accepted students day. The visits as an accepted student really helped my S to feel confident about his final college choice.

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Drill into the BBA scholar benefits. Also look at SMU’s alternative asset program. Those two options are tough to pass-up.

Fit is most important and both schools would be peers IMHO. The BBA scholar hook would sway me everything else being equal.

S20 had a great offer from SMU including BBA scholar. Covid hit and we couldn’t visit so it came off the table. He’s currently working in Dallas and likes it. The music scene would definitely be a positive. Good luck.

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This is pretty reassuring. I am trying not to let my alum status at W&L color my opinions too much. It’s difficult because I would have hated SMU :joy: and I’m very much an LAC person. But I respect that it’s an excellent school with an excellent program.

I also think that W&L is quite different than it was when I was in school, it was much more southern then and more of a party school.

We are attending both accepted students days.

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Oh - well that will decide it.

What enrichment will he get from BBA Scholars and is that important to him too? What they say - you’ll study abroad, and double major or minor, doesn’t seem like a - big of deal. Is there other enrichment?

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From the web site -

Being a Cox BBA Scholar at SMU’s Cox School of Business comes with several notable benefits that can enhance your academic experience, career preparation, and financial support. Here’s a breakdown of the key advantages:

  1. Direct Admission to Cox School of Business: As a BBA Scholar, you’re pre-selected for admission into the Cox School during your senior year of high school. This means you can start taking business courses as a freshman, bypassing the competitive application process other SMU students face to enter Cox later.

  2. Merit-Based Scholarships: BBA Scholars receive Cox-specific scholarships, which are awarded prior to enrollment and are typically renewable for up to four years, provided you maintain a 3.0 GPA and a business major. These scholarships supplement any SMU merit aid, reducing the financial burden of attending a top-tier business school.

  3. Early Access to Resources: You gain immediate access to Cox Advising and Career Services, which provide personalized academic guidance and career planning from day one. This early support can help you secure internships, build a professional network, and prepare for your future career sooner than your peers.

  4. Elite Peer Group: The program attracts high-achieving students with exceptional academic records (e.g., Fall 2023 BBA Scholars had an average SAT of 1500 and ACT of 34) and strong leadership skills. Being part of this cohort offers a collaborative and competitive environment that can push you to excel.

  5. Exclusive Opportunities: BBA Scholars often participate in special events, receptions, and programs tailored to their cohort. These experiences foster connections with faculty, alumni, and industry leaders, particularly in Dallas—a major business hub—enhancing your exposure to real-world opportunities.

  6. Flexibility in Curriculum: While you follow the standard Cox BBA curriculum, starting as a Scholar gives you a head start in exploring majors like finance, marketing, or real estate, and pursuing specializations such as entrepreneurship or energy management, aligning your education with your career goals early on.

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W&L does a great job on Admitted Students Day. Dunno if The Palms was there back in the day, but it’s a cool bar and a great burger. The Bistro on Main was ok.

Few years back W&L promoted the internships that some student obtained but from speaking with current students at the time, there was a pretty pipeline into D.C. post-grad opportunities was what truly stuck out to us.

Overall, W&L Admitted Students Day was a great experience. Ultimately, my DC decided that the 2,200 student population wasn’t ideal for her, but she appreciated what W&L had to offer.

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The Palms has been there since the dawn of time :slight_smile: Spent my 21st there. I mean everyone did back then it was the only bar in town.

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That checks out. Great spot.

The most quaint Hampton Inn we’ve ever stayed at is in Lexington.

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I hope after the two accepted student days that the decision becomes clear to your S. Do come back and let us know his choice.

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After just returning home from sorority parents’ weekend at W&L, I can say it’s still very much a party school. :sweat_smile:

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My utterly unscientific and unsupported opinion here: he sounds like a great fit at W&L but would probably find his people in either place. Lexington’s location in the mountains just seems to support a more outdoorsy lifestyle and I’m guessing that insofar as W&L has changed since the days when you were a student there and I was a weekend guest, it’s probably evolved in directions that would be positives for your kid (although I did read somewhere that the speaking tradition might be less prevalent; hope that’s not true.)

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