My daughter was all in on the ED process. She knew junior year that she wanted to ED and spent a significant amount of time deciding which school made the most sense. She never had the what if scenario people talk about. She was DONE first week of December and couldn’t have been happier. For some kids it works. I think if they love another school and are doing it hoping for an ED bump, you’re asking for regrets. But if they truly love the school and want the process to be over - let them really explore which school makes the most sense. Best of luck to your student!
ETA and I would look at University of Rochester as a solid target bordering on safe. I’d also say it’s a great fit for how you describe your student and their music opportunities with Eastman are substantial.
That’s great! Sounds like she really knew what she wanted and went for it. So nice be be done by December and be able to really enjoy and relax into second semester of senior year.
Yes to Rochester. We visited and liked it, and It is on his list.
Thank you! Having been a student there, I totally agree that Carleton is intense and rigorous. The ten week terms can be a real grind. But I don’t think it’s competitive (among students). The intensity is leavened by a sense of playfulness (there’s a unique Carleton sense of humor), and, I think, by a sort of humble midwestern sensibility that appealed to me (an East Coaster) when I was there. Of course I was there ages ago, so maybe this has changed. DS is a very hard worker. He doesn’t at all want “easy”. He loves a challenge. But he also is seeking a place that embraces some lightheartedness and balance. Of course it’s possible to find and create this in most places.
My D22 was similar with ED - as long as she had a strong first choice (and she did) she was all in on ED. She would have hated waiting, would have hated having decision paralysis in the spring, had no competitive desire to rack up acceptances, had no desire to try applying places “just to see if she could get in”. She wanted it DONE. The bump in admissions was secondary though obviously welcome. We are a high need family so she had a budget, but as long as the NPC came in within that budget she was free to ED. I had no desire to make her shop for the “best deal” - if the money worked she could ED. She applied ED plus a few places EA and was thrilled to be done in mid-December. She was ready to pull all her other apps within minutes of getting the ED acceptance (I made her wait until we got the formal financial aid offer the next day ). She’s never regretted doing ED for a minute that I can tell. I’m not saying I don’t wish ED didn’t exist, but given that it does for some people it really is the best option. I would listen to your kid - if he really wants to ED and has a clear favorite I would encourage that - it was SO NICE to be done in December. That said, if you think he might change his mind or regret not having choices that’s a different story.
I think laid-back may be the wrong adjective. Rigorous academics are a top priority. But he also wants a student body that has a collaborative, kind, and playful spirit. I’ve heard talk about some schools having a “misery olympics” culture or a “stress culture”. He’s hoping for a place where students love to learn, work really hard, and also value being well rounded people who are able to make time for sleep, extra curricular activities, and socializing (ideally without this being dominated by alcohol consumption).
Although it’s definitely a reach, I second (or third) the suggestion of Brown. My son just graduated this past May and I’d be happy to answer any questions.
It’s true that Williams academics are demanding, but from my son’s experience I wouldn’t characterize the atmosphere as grinding or competitive. The support from professors and classmates was overwhelmingly positive, and the personal relationships carried over to job/internship and graduate/professional school recommendations.
(Actually I don’t really understand what “competitive” really means: talking over other students in class? Bragging about grades? I don’t see this as a reality at Williams or any of the LACs under consideration. If there’s intense pressure it’s most likely internally generated which is common among high achieving kids. That’s where support and balance come in.)
Williams ethos is a trifecta of academics, the arts and some level of physical activity, not necessarily team sports but also outdoorsy friendly activities (like midnight tobogganing or goofy broomball). These are for the most part happy energetic intellectually curious kids.
Williams insular mountain village environment isn’t for everyone. For my son it was the ideal antidote to the heavy academics. He grew up in mega cities — and lives in one now — but Williams serene setting was integral to his experience. They do manage to get to Boston or New York once or twice a term, and the Berkshires are a sophisticated playground, but the campus itself is the nexus.
My son had an art/art history focus but two of his closest friends were serious musicians, one in classical piano, one in jazz ensemble. They both pursued other academic disciplines and non music related careers but music remains an important part of who they are.
I hope your son will have a chance to visit Williams. Spend some time with the science and music facilities, perhaps talk to a piano instructor or student.
Bowdoin acceptance rate = 7% overall, 13% ED
Carleton acceptance rate = 20% overall, 36% ED
When athletes and other hooked applicants are factored in, it doesn’t appear that ED offers a significant advantage at either school - although more likely to have some small advantage at Carleton.
The real advantage that ED offers at both schools is that the student has one more opportunity to have their application reviewed. Both schools filled about 250+/- spots in ED. Without applying ED, an applicant has no chance for those 250 spots. So, if a student has a clear favorite, might as well apply. Worst case is that they’re likely bumped to RD and get a 2nd bite at the Apple.
I love your description. It sounds like a place my son would love. I don’t really know what “competitive” would look like on an LAC campus either. In high school I guess it shows up as grade comparison. I remember hearing anecdotes about how it would show up in med schools as people tearing pages out of journals (back when people were dependent on paper texts). You are probably right that the competitive thing at LACs is just competition with oneself.
Brown has a student:faculty ratio of 6:1, which is frankly better than most LACs. Roughly 2/3 of their classes are small (less than 20). On the other, about 12% are over 50 with a small number of those over 100 - something you rarely if ever see at LACs.
As a research university, things just come out differently than they do at an LAC. Nonetheless, there are plenty of opportunities for small classes and personal contact with professors.
At a couple schools I can think of (not in this thread), there is great pride in pulling all-nighters and marathon library sessions. The students aren’t competitive about it, but it’s very much a part of the culture, just as drinking might be elsewhere. Sure, participation is voluntary, but it’s in the air…
I see what you mean, what the OP referred to as the “misery Olympics.” I agree, this doesn’t seem to apply to the LAC’s that the OP’s son is considering.
A “tell” for us was if and how the school addressed stress issues during admissions info sessions. We attended two in which current students spoke emotionally about the untenable pressure they were under and the administration spoke, in our opinion lamely, about counter measures. For us, that was a potential red flag.
Not Reed. I’m not naming names because I think we all agree that tour guides and info session speakers can skew opinions positively and negatively.
I can only speak to my son’s experience at Williams, about positive outlets and about collaborative culture and availability of support.
Kids who were academic superstars in high school can be daunted finding themselves surrounded by high achievers. As I said that’s where balance is critical.
). She’s never regretted doing ED for a minute that I can tell. I’m not saying I don’t wish ED didn’t exist, but given that it does for some people it really is the best option. I would listen to your kid - if he really wants to ED and has a clear favorite I would encourage that - it was SO NICE to be done in December. That said, if you think he might change his mind or regret not having choices that’s a different story.