Nice try. No, I’m not saying I’m intolerant. I’m saying that I can understand why colleges don’t necessarily look to admit more of these students who have these needs and quirks. That’s all.
Schools cannot discriminate against students who are “otherwise qualified” for admission. The Disability services offices at many schools are increasing the support services the offer to students needing a variety of support services and/or accommodations.
I think there are probably plenty of stidents with Aspergers or some other disability at Ivy schools. Aspergers can be in many sizes, shapes…and some folks can learn to function adequately in a social communication environment just fine enough.
Years ago, I heard an awesome speaker who was a graduate of Yale…he was on a panel with Temple Grandin. He was bright, intuitive…and had a great sense of humor. He told of his awkward social issues, and how he was working to address them. He had a bachelors and masters from Yale, and was working there.
@Pizzagirl I understand the reality of how people may perceive asperger people. You have a point this is a typical bias that asperger kids need to overcome – despite all legal protections. However, these kids are usually genuinely sweet in their hearts. Some may not say hello or goodbye, but this does not mean they are doing this because they are obnoxious. My D has many quirks, but she is loved by her many friends despite of her shortcomings.
By the way, I just think the thing about not taking bath is not normal. I worked with many Asperger kids and I never met one with this type of problem. I knew some kids who avoided to use some facilities, but this was always linked to bullying behavior. A big issue is that Asperger kids don’t seem to know how to react to bullying behavior. So, if an obnoxious intolerant roommate starts to act in a bullying way, that asperger kid can simply choose to shut down and stop to say hello/goodbye, and maybe even avoid to use facilities to avoid conflict. However, who is the real roommate with a problem in this type of scenario?
This may be tangential to this discussion, but happens to be a topic being discussed simultaneously on a professional listserv. The discussion there points out that “social skills weaknesses” is quite different than “clear, sustained and clinically significant impairment in social interaction” throughout one’s life, and is a necessary component of a diagnosis of Aspergers/HFA.
They also reiterate on the other forum that social skills weaknesses and perseveration on hobbies go hand in hand with ADHD, not just Aspergers/HFA. Newer research supports an ADHD dx as hopefully moving away from being conceptualized as an “attention disorder” and move closer toward an “executive functioning” disorder.
ADHD has been seen as an executive function disorder for many years, and there were attempts to get the name changed to “executive dysfunction disorder” in one of the past versions of the DSM (III or IV, I’ve forgotten) but, the federal regulations and many other documents use the term ADHD, so if the term disappeared, it would have had a huge impact on regulations and services. So ADHD remained.
I mention all of this because there have been many “quirky” or socially clumsy kids who may know evedry baseball statistic from every baseball game for the past 10 years (I know a few who do) who are suspected to be Aspies, but may well not be.
FWIW, my DS#2s roommate rarely bathed. He stunk, as did his belongings. We bought DS a battery operated air freshener as a holiday gift freshman year. WHen they agreed to room together the following year, with 2 other friends in an adjoining room with shared bath, they had a bit of an “intervention” with stinky roommate. He improved… slightly, but not much. Only when he finally got a girlfriend did his hygiene improve.
PentaDad: Congratulations to your daughter. And thank you so much for the update, which should be useful to others.
I am constantly surprised at parents and others who actually believe colleges discriminate against certain disabilities I their admissions. This is illegal. It is against the law, if that isn’t clear enough! And a school like Harvard does value differences, and kids with the character to persevere with challenges.
Kids can disclose in an essay or not disclose. It really doesn’t matter as long as, like any other applicant, they feel they are writing about what they most care about.
The important thing is to register with the disabilities office and follow through with professors once the disabilities office gives out letters for that purpose. And to work with deans and other support people.
jym thank you for the info on ADHD as an executive function disorder versus attention: I have thought about that for years!
"However, these kids are usually genuinely sweet in their hearts. Some may not say hello or goodbye, but this does not mean they are doing this because they are obnoxious. "
Completely agree. I think what’s difficult is that colleges want to build a community, not just pick the best brains, and to the extent that some of these students have difficulty in finding / building community, it makes it hard for the college to fulfill its goal. I’m sure it’s very difficult for parents to watch.
If lack of bathing were a symptom of a disability, there are a TON of middle school boys out there that need to be diagnosed.
My personal inclination about what to write about in essays would be to always be mindful of the fact that colleges are businesses, not your friends.
@compmom,
You are welcome. But I think I mis-remembered the diagnostic term that Russell Barkley wanted to put forward. I think he was proposing “dysexecutive disorder” or something close to that.
Thanks for the update @PentaDad!
Amen. It’s interesting how socially gifted people shift the burden to someone who is a little more socially awkward, and then make assumptions about what is going through that person’s mind.
It’s like if I’m 6’5 and can reach the top shelf, but can’t figure out why my 5’2 roommate always needs to drag out the step stool. And then I stand there and sneer when he does.
“It’s interesting how socially gifted people shift the burden to someone who is a little more socially awkward, and then make assumptions about what is going through that person’s mind.”
We aren’t talking about anybody bullying or sneering at a student with this disability. The students who present every year with complaints of this nature are not sneerers or bullies. Many try mightily to help the person engage, and it’s human nature to want a roommate who can engage socially - not life of the party, but hello / goodbye / some small talk.
^^I think if you are socially gifted, then part of that gift is understanding when people don’t want you poking into their bubble.
Wanting social interaction from a roommate the way you want to interact with them isn’t, um, being social. I think it’s being a little selfish. Just like I know some people who think showing up at your front door unannounced is being “social” where I think it is being inconsiderate (and I won’t answer the door, lol).
We don’t need help “engaging”, a lot of people (especially introverts, which I am not) simply are choosing NOT to engage with people that they don’t enjoy engaging with.
Engaging should not be an obligation, and respecting that person’s space and understanding that they’re not being “mean” or “cold” or “offputting” is key to developing good relationships with them. It may not be the kind of relationship you’re used to having, but it is every bit as relevant and valid.
I think most roommates go into the experience with expectations of being friendly with their roommates. Not necessarily best buds, but you might go have dinner together, or talk about music or courses occassionally. I had the experience sophomore year of being tossed in as the third wheel in a rooming group where one kid took the year off unexpectedly. The two remaining students just pretended I didn’t exist most of the time. Then one of them also went home for mental health reasons so we ended up with another third wheel. I have never had such a miserable experience. None of those people had Asperger’s they just had their own friendship groups and weren’t interested in expanding them one iota. I’d had a fine freshman year with a young woman I liked just fine. We weren’t best friends, but we still keep in touch. The following year I roomed with another set of young women who were all fine too. But I really don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation that your roommate have the basic social graces. And I say that as the Mom of a boy who doesn’t shower as often as I’d like, who rarely initiates conversations, and often had to be reminded to say hello back and make eye contract, though he’s much better about that sort of thing now.
I’m an introvert. I totally get introversion. I could still say hello and goodbye and how was class today. We are talking about a disability that is something entirely and completely different from introversion. But never mind. Really.
OP, your daughter apparently did an excellent job of glass more than half full. Kudos to her. Searching for the right mentors and wanting to pay back/pay forward show her self awareness and some self-advocacy, as well as a concern for others. She’s wise.
It’s not that tippy tops actively discriminate against disabilities. Instead, it matters very much how the kid presents. We get kids on CC who want to write about all the “I can’ts.” Attitude matters.
We need to watch stereotyping.
@PentaDad
Congrats to your daughter and the amazing accomplishments she’s achieved, sounds like you’ve raised a wonderful young woman. Continued success wishes!
From your posts I would never have guessed that.
I think people set themselves up for disappointment when they have expectations like this. I may be unnaturally good at setting the bar extremely low for humanity, but I’m usually surprised in the right direction because of it.
I agree with @lookingforward , attitude matters.
The students I’m describing are not expecting anything unreasonable of their roommates. They’re not asking them to be the life of the party. They are reasonable in their expectations that their roommates say hello, goodbye, and engage in the necessary small talk of living together.
I think online us introverts are considerably less introverted! (It’s like the old joke nobody knows you are a dog on the internet.)
Edited to add the link. Wow - that was in the baby days of the Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you’re_a_dog