From time to time I see kids applying to different colleges with slightly different majors. Would you ever have a situation where kids are applying to liberal arts colleges –with less emphasis on major but perhaps a sense of possible humanities focus areas–but then also to other schools like state universities, choosing to apply as a business major in order to ensure that there are clearer recruitment/pipeline opportunities for a job after college? How do kids thread this needle in terms of their applications and whether to build a story around humanities or business? Hope this makes sense.
For this part, most colleges have some kind of “why this college”or “why this major” supplemental, so the kid would tailor that to each application.
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They simply apply for the major they want - if majors are required. Some kids seek rank and if they want business and a school doesn’t offer, they choose econ, as an example.
Some will choose data science instead of computer science, if they think it’s easier. Or a different college within a U if they think that college is an easier entry.
Some will be all over - maybe they applied for one major and then changed their mind b4 the next school.
Most ECs, if not all, work for all majors. And a story can easily be told if required.
I believe in major over school. If I want to be an accounting major, I wouldn’t go to a school that didn’t offer it.
At some schools, you don’t declare a major up front.
In sum, every app is independent of another.
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Thanks - makes sense. And while I really don’t believe in overthinking how to do high school but to focus on one’s interests, I’m curious if under this scenario kids applying to state universities’ business programs, as well as LACs without those, would have a hard time figuring out relevant electives or extracurriculars? It seems like some business programs really expect kids to have demonstrated a true commitment to business in their classes and ECs– and to me, some of that runs counter to being more of a humanities kid where maybe you’re not thinking about taking business classes in high school at all. But where I think this is relevant is in today’s atmosphere of many rethinking LACs over concern about employability for their student right out of college? I should add that I think a good college list can include different types of schools – big, small, LAC, non-LAC and there might be certain attributes that the kid values that makes a few of these all worthy.
Get the 4 years of each core area out of the way Olof seeking selective schools - english, math, language, science, social science.
Some, for example, will say I’m not interested in language so I just took two years but I wanted AP CS. Not needed and it could work against you at more selective schools. But if you have space after doing the core, whether nutrition or AP CS, go for it.
Activities - do what you want. They needn’t be related. Have a job - it shows responsibility, teamwork and more. Band - teamwork, dedication. Same with sports. Walk dogs at the shelter ? Empathy. You don’t need to be in a humanities club. If you do junior achievement, it doesn’t mean it’s only good for business. Or Destination Imagination, you must go STEM.
Follow your interests. Don’t deviate from that but focus on quality (tenure and depth) over quantity.
The best strategy is to be yourself - not to try and impress others.
All true, and I agree– but I’d ask of anyone: don’t you think the way of the world with undergraduate business programs is that kids are expected to be as much business as possible, in the same way that future CS or engineering majors are supposed to show focus to the extent possible in these or related areas in high school? That, unfortunately, is what I have seen with how kids more and more are approaching high school and directly or indirectly are being forced to pick a lane early on….?
Honestly, I think there is in fact a potential tension here. Like, I could see some LACs, or indeed private research universities without undergrad business programs such that their undergrad program is also a a “traditional liberal arts and sciences” sort of program, looking at some business-oriented HS transcripts, EC lists, and so on, and questioning whether this kid really is interested in the traditional liberal arts and sciences sort of experience, or is only interested in their college because it showed up as placing well in business. And this is a big thing for at least the more selective such colleges, they don’t tend to favor people who just want them for the name, they really prefer kids they believe value the same things in an undergraduate education that they do.
Of course undoubtedly some kids will pull it off anyway. But I do think admissions officers sometimes think, “This a great kid for a different type of program, but not so much ours,” and that can make it hard to be seen as a great fit for every conceivable type of undergrad program at the same time.
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Yes, for relatively more selective colleges.
With that said, taking the business major and related ECs, it’s ok to think broadly. Including paid jobs. For the biz major at public school kid who also might apply to LACs with no business major…other majors can easily serve to get one into business/business adjacent jobs. Majors like math, analytics, stats, econ, even English and the sciences. So having business-y ECs still can fit the LAC. Some schools do have why us and/or why this major essay, and the student just has to cover that in those, but that’s not hard. Most schools, beyond the more selective, don’t have those types of essays anyway.
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Well, I don’t think all those kids in certain circles are necessarily doing what all those programs actually want, as opposed to what their peers, possibly parents, and so on THINK they want.
I do think there are certain core academic competencies that are expected at least from advantaged kids going to advantaged high schools. I don’t think related elective classes and ECs are then necessarily bad, but I don’t think they are always as helpful, let alone required, as some people seem to think. Like, if you are a Physics, Chem, and Math all-star academically, but also a natural leader and in fact, say, captain of a varsity sports team, and also known to be incredibly kind and supportive to your classmates as reflected in recommendations and such, then you are very likely to be very competitive for a lot of STEM programs at places which in fact practice holistic review. Whereas if basically all your ECs just keep reinforcing the same one basic point–you are individually very interested in and very good at STEM stuff–well, that will be plenty for many good programs, but the most selective programs may not be as interested as you are expecting.
I think business programs are sorta the same way. Yes, there are plenty which may be fine with the kid who has been very business focused in HS, but the most selective and holistic might actually be more interested in a more varied profile.
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Ehhhh - I don’t agree. You are seeing a small group of- and that gets magnified. You will find normal kids that played sports, were in band, and scooped ice cream at all top schools.
If you’re at a high school that is forcing 14 year olds to pick a lane, find another. Even kids at ‘top’ colleges often don’t know what they want - nor should they at 18.
By the way, in reality, what ‘business’ is a 16 year old gonna have. My daughter’s bf ran a landscaping outfit - he mowed lawns.
All the stories you read about - most are clearly inflated and not necessary.
Besides, it’s grades first.
If your student is just starting hs, let him be a kid and take the courses that stretch but don’t crush them and partake in activities of choice.
No one needs to be defined at 14….or 18.
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Well, if you’re the kind of person who thinks ECs should be tailored to tell a story for college applications rather than do what actually interests you, I guess that matters. I personally think kids should do the ECs they want to do because it interests them. You can weave a story around most things.
Entirely dependent on the kid and their interests. Neither of my kids had any interest in either LACs or small schools, for example.
Been mentioned by others on this forum too for their kids, but I know as an example a couple of kids who have gotten into really strong engineering programs with music as their main EC.
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If you have a 14 year old, not only is it unlikely they know what they want to do, it’s unlikely they know what’s even out there in life and it’s very likely that by the time they graduate college, the world will be vastly different.
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I also note even supposing it were true that exploring and developing your authentic interests in HS would lead to you being more competitive for certain sorts of selective undergrad programs than others . . . is this actually a BAD thing?
Selective colleges tend to think in terms of who will actually thrive in their program, getting the most out of the program, and also contributing back to their fellow students, faculty, and so on. If some of these colleges think your authentic self would be a great fit for them, and others not so much, I would personally suggest taking both sides of that as equally valuable information!
So yes, this whole idea that you should decide on a target list of undergrad programs at like age 14 (or 12, or 10, or whatever), then try to be whatever they seem to want in an applicant, seems backwards to me. I suggest taking the time and opportunities available to you in HS to develop as a person, perhaps in unexpected ways, and then be open to whatever that means in terms of which colleges are actually best as next steps for you.
And for that matter, possibly the best next step will not be college, at least not right away. I suggest being open to that as well.
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I don’t disagree with any of this. I do think there is a “pick a lane” mentality not just in some high schools but also in the application process. I also think that the profile of a kid who seeks out IU Kelley or Wharton is potentially different from someone who wants to go to an LAC. I might be asking the wrong question, tbh, and it might be more one of how viable for employment are solid students with liberal arts backgrounds in undergrad. But sadly, I think many parents are rightly concerned about their kids being able to find jobs after graduation - even coming out of top LACs– and before that, finding internships. Many don’t want to give up on the liberal arts, but at the same time, kids need to be employable….
I don’t find that odd at all. Perhaps they also had some math-y ECs too, not to mention plenty of admissions peeps absolutely see music as math-y. Again, the whole idea of thinking broadly wrt ECs and majors applies here.
Anyway, my point is that many students applying to highly selective schools have at least some ECs that support their intended major. People can keep saying that’s not needed, but it generally is. At some schools, sometimes the type of EC needed for admission to a given major is shockingly granular, which I was just chatting with @hebegebe about.
There will always be exceptions though…yet college counselors can’t advise students based on exceptions. For most less selective schools, this isn’t really an issue.
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Agree.
With a 26 I have been following a lot of the social media posts here and elsewhere this application season. The most heartbreaking ones are the ones either parents (mostly Facebook) or kids (mostly Reddit) who had disappointing-for-them outcomes and lamented the fact that the kid spent 4 years working their butts off/ doing ECs carefully aiming at selective colleges when they could just have been a teenager doing what interests them/had fun like their friends who ended up at the same schools, etc. And there were a lot of these posts.
You only get to be a teenager once. (And yes, I know there are kids who follow this track obsessively and get into their target T10s too.)
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That was my (perhaps too oblique) point - not that I found it odd, but that the focus on “relevant” ECs can be far too narrow.
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I do think you are asking a different question, and I do think the answer is a bit nuanced.
The more selective, “national” sort of LACs are not notably struggling to place their graduates into good career paths. For that matter, neither are the “national” private research universities where the undergrad program is basically a traditional liberal arts and science program, nor in fact the Arts and Sciences division of “national” private or public research universities where they also have other pre-professional undergrad programs.
So why is there a perception of a crisis? Well, part of it is coming out of graduates of different sorts of colleges entirely. And part of it is coming out of costs.
Like, part of why going to selective national LACs and Arts and Sciences undergrad programs and such still works fine for many kids is that many of those kids then eventually go on to graduate and professional programs. But the full pay cost from start to finish of such an educational program, at least in the US, can be enormous. A few families can easily absorb that cost, and others are getting enough aid to make the actual out of pocket costs reasonable (including in the form of in-state tuition at one or both levels, which might be enough aid for some families). But some are taking out a LOT of debt, and that is really causing them serious issues.
OK, so I think some families are reacting to all this by thinking something like, “If our family is going to cripple itself with debt to put you through your entire education, we want to know from the start you are on the path to a highly lucrative career.” And I feel like in most cases, that is a mistake. There is never actually a risk-free path like that. Moreover, even if it “works”, it can end with a kid saddled with debt grinding away in a job they dislike. I don’t consider that a success story.
So I think instead, families need to be much more aggressive about cost/debt containment, starting with the undergrad level. Indeed, high level, if you are going to take out much debt for any degree, usually a grad/professional degree which you already know from some work experience will advance your informed career goals is by far the best “return on investment” bet. Speculating as a HS kid that will work out for undergrad? Way too risky, in my view, including because it may mean you lack resources to do such a grad/professional degree in the future.
As a final thought, do you REALLY think all these financially-savvy, well-educated, successful professional parents would keep sending their kids to costly LACs, Arts & Sciences programs, and so on if their kids were predictably going to be unemployable? No, they know from ongoing experience how these paths still work. But the savviest ones have a plan for paying for it all without too much debt.
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I don’t agree with this at all. One of my kids was an undergrad engineering major with a double major in biology. None (and i mean zero) of her high school ECs hd anything to do with engineering or biology. Her HS ECs were a lot of music related things (both in and out of the HS), and the HS swim team. BUT all showed her longterm commitment to her ECs, and some leadership thibgs in these things.
I say..do what you love and love what you do. Don’t choose ECs because you think they will impress some adcoms related to a possible major.
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I think part of the confusion is there is a vast gulf between “at least some ECs” and “their main EC”. If you have an interest in something, it is natural you will likely do at least something related outside of just choosing classes, if available at least. But your “main” EC interest might not be academically related at all–sports, arts, or on.
I also think this can vary by type of academic interest. Honestly, I am not sure a kid with a professed interest in, say, Classics, actually “needs” to do anything organized besides perhaps choose Latin or Greek as their HS language (if available!) and take the National Exams. If they actually find some relevant summer experiences or clubs or something, that is fine, but I really doubt it is “required”. Otherwise, any additional development of that interest may more be in the hobby category, like reading for fun, say.
I would tend to agree having nothing at all when applying to an undergrad business program makes less sense. As many have pointed out, at LEAST having a paying job seems like an obvious thing to do. I don’t think this means you can’t have sports or such as your “main” interest, but I do think something and not nothing at all would usually be expected.
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