<p>Hey Canadians,
I know some of you, like me, are thinking about applying to the ivy league. I know that Harvard, Princeton, and Yale have excellent financial aid systems in place for those of us whose families aren’t rich. But, all costs considered, the ivy league is still much more expensive than going to school in canada. If a student lives in residence, has a meal plan etc. and whose family income bracket is, say 100k, how much more would the ivy league cost per year than a comparable canadian school, say UofToronto or Queen’s? Is it worth the cost?</p>
<p>At 100K, I would say that Ivys would be cheaper or on par with Canadian costs.</p>
<p>Not really. I used the Princeton financial aid calculator, and I only got $15,000 in financial aid. That means princeton would cost $35,000 a year. On the other hand, the most expensive program at Waterloo is $25,000 a year. Plus, a canadian can get more scholarships by staying in canada than by going to the states. Whether it’s worth it or not depends on how much of a salary boost an Ivy League degree gives. Anyone think it’s worthwhile from a financial perspective?</p>
<p>I am really surprised that the Princeton Financial Aid Estimator gave such as result. I think that you more likely got an estimated EFC (Expected family contribution) of $15,000, which means that your family would only have to contribute $15,000 per year to your education (Princeton would cover the rest with a grant and an on campus job). See this page, which states that a family making $80,000-$100,000 has full tuition plus 47% of room and board covered (average grant of $42,250) : [Princeton</a> University | Who Qualifies for Aid?](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/how_it_works/who_qualifies/]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/how_it_works/who_qualifies/)</p>
<p>Harvard’s financial aid policy stipulates that any family making less than $180,000 will contribute no more than 10% of their income and that any family making less than $80,000 (not sure of exact amount) will pay nothing. Princeton also guarantees that any family making less than $70,000 will pay nothing.</p>
<p>I agree with ViggyRam, if you can get into an Ivy, it will be cheaper than going to a school here (unless you get some kind of financial aid here which brings your cost below your EFC).</p>
<p>Regardless of cost, the hard part is being among the 7% or so of applicants who are accepted. If you don’t apply you will never know. If accepted you can compare bottom line costs then. Actually, for HYP, bottom line cost should not really be a factor. For those schools at least, taking out loans would be worth it.</p>
<p>We have around the same income over here and when my parents used Princeton’s Calc. we got something like 8-9K contribution.</p>
<p>My family makes somewhere around 160-180k (not entirely sure), but we pay about $30,000 for Penn. HYP have better financial aid and at a lower income, you’ll probably end up paying less than at a Canadian school.</p>
<p>[Project</a> on Student Debt: What’s the Bottom Line?](<a href=“http://www.projectonstudentdebt.org/ncoa_chart.php?sort=b.range_3]Project”>http://www.projectonstudentdebt.org/ncoa_chart.php?sort=b.range_3)</p>
<p>If you’re interested in going into research, there are going to be far more opportunities to get involved in research as an undergrad at an Ivy (or other American private research university) than at a Canadian university.</p>
<p>^ That simply is not at all true. Heck my highschool kids are doing research at a Canadian uni! In fact, my 11th grader is training a current but new graduate student in the lab in which she works. All you have to do is get to know your professors- drop by office hours, make an appointment, participate in class, and ask. Simply ask. Top Candian schools are hotbeds of research, with tons of opportunites (it is just that far fewer undergrads bother to get involved). There are TONS of opportunities. For those interested in graduate school, I strongly recommend Canadian schools first and then going to the top school in ones field for graduate work. I have had so many undergrads work with me, none of whom have had a problem going on to top US schools for their PhD. </p>
<p>There might be other good reasons to go to HYPs, but I think this is not one of them.</p>
<p>My estimated EFC shows that my parents would pay 5K or so. I do not trust EFC estimates entirely, cause the actual F/A offer can differ from EFC estimates, and my dad may be asked to pay more. Still, I would be a total idiot not to try my best for US universities when I know that I may actaully get that kind of aid.</p>
<p>Wow! Harvard and Yale are surprising bargains. $16,000 per year bottom line? That’s cheaper than Waterloo.
Lol I applied to Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, but i’m such a crapshoot, so I probably can’t get in.
I am reasonably confident about getting into Upenn though. Penn is going to cost $35,000 per year, that’s not good…
Canadian uni is $25,000 per year.
Major Lazer, how did you get so much financial aid?</p>
<p>@starbright, (very delayed response I know…been swamped these last several weeks)</p>
<p>It’s interesting that you bring that other perspective; perhaps it varies depending on the school and department? I personally don’t have experience with seeking research positions in Canada (never really considered it in high school, and since starting university, I’ve been doing research in the US) but I’ve spoken with friends at McMaster and McGill and they’ve reported difficulty in finding positions (both paid and unpaid) Meanwhile at Penn neither I nor my friends have had any difficulty finding (both paid and unpaid) lab positions. Anecdotal evidence, of course, but worth noting.</p>
<p>@starbright:</p>
<p>I hate to say this, but it may be harder to research positions in Canada because Canadians are “smarter,” as in many of them would focus a lot more on grades. The Canadian system puts so much more emphasis on GPA and every thing else is just for fun (except for the very few programs which actually care, like Mac Health Sci). I have so many friends who had 95+ averages in high school (and if I’m correct on this, a 95 is much harder to attain in Canada than in the US) but none of them were involved with contests and EC’s. </p>
<p>The competition for grades is so much stiffer here and from an undergrad’s perspective, it’s much harder to get a research opportunity. With class sizes being 200+, I don’t even see how you could have hope for a research opportunity unless you’re literally in the top few (and you’ll turn into a lunatic studying so much if you make it into the top few anyways). </p>
<p>And yes, starbright, there are a select few programs out there that let high school students do research, but those are extremely competitive. Trust me, it’s much easier to get into Cornell than to get those (I was rejected twice for those high school research opportunities, but got into Cornell for Engineering early). And plus, it’s much easier to get those opportunities when your parents have connections. Just saying ;-)</p>
<p>Guys, having actually attended an American University, StarBright is right about a lot more than you give her credit for. Honestly, if you’re good enough to get into a top American school you’d probably be one of the top students at any Canadian schools, and it’s a lot better to be the top student in Canada than a average one in the states racking up a ton of debt. Also, the differences between Canadian and American schools are overrated, both have good and bad profs, both cover similar material, the main one I’ve found is class size. I wouldn’t change my situation for the world, but I’ve been blessed with one that not many people have been.</p>
<p>^JonoWono is right. If one is capable to get into these schools and make the most of what they have at just the high school level, essentially any university will provide him or her with the resources to do anything (research, leadership, etc.).</p>
<p>@JonoWono:
Hey, I actually wish you’re right as well… So I got into Cornell last year (and I probably would’ve gotten into better schools, but it’s a long explanation as to why I didn’t apply), but I find myself dead in the middle of the class in a Canadian school right now. And yes, I’m studying more than ever and that’s like literally what I do all day (hey, I actually had more time to go on CC last year, okay?). </p>
<p>I think it’s just the difference in culture here. I hate to put it this way, but the Canadian system pretty much sets you up to fail - the whole point they of admitting you is so that they could take your first year tuition and flunk you after wards. </p>
<p>That, and how students place so much more emphasis on grades here, so if you want to beat out the class, you pretty much have to have no life. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but for most of us (yes, I mean most of us CCers), we don’t really stand a chance gpa-wise if we want to do a few EC’s and have some kind of a life outside academics. </p>
<p>@ViggyRam: That’s an interesting comment… since you’re not even in university yet =P</p>
<p>Though yes, I would have to add in that you really have to weigh in whether the extra cost of going to an Ivy is worth it (and I guess that’s the whole point of this thread). </p>
<p>The fact is, I don’t think many of us is qualified enough to offer some real insight on this just because one really has to have been at both systems in order to compare.</p>
<p>
Care to elaborate?</p>
<p>Also, if you could go back in time, would you still choose Waterloo over Cornell?</p>
<p>^Umm, the high attrition rate? And how your marks drop 20% when you go into university (I don’t think it drops as much down in the US… correct me if I’m wrong)?</p>
<p>And actually, I’m at University of Toronto =P And yes, I’d still choose Waterloo/U of T over Cornell because of the whole financial factor, BUT I’d choose a different program at U of T ;-)</p>
<p>As people have already pointed out, a big difference in the Canadian system is that everything revolves around marks and GPA, so depending on what your strengths are, you may be ecstatic for that or not. There used to be some talk about the whole “Effort vs. Genius in getting high marks in high school” over at studentawards (back when they actually had interesting discussions =P). The difficulty of the material, with regards to both breadth and depth, does jump quite a bit at the university level, so if you’re one of those people in the “Genius” category and coasted through high school material (giving you plenty of time to build up those EC’s for US school applications), then you might find it hard to adjust to university.</p>