Carleton College/Amherst College/Williams College vs. St. Olaf (Pre-med) [CA resident, 4.0 GPA]

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I am a rising senior in high school and am positive that I want to be a doctor when I am older. I have looked into medical school acceptance rates and have seen that the numbers go down every year, therefore I am very concerned about getting in somewhere reputable. I know that cost is a big concern when considering college as well, seeing as I will also have to pay for medical school after this. I have looked into it and know that schools like Carleton, Amherst, and Williams College are all great liberal arts colleges that would set me up very well to go to medical school, however they are all also very costly, and I do not want to run out of money before medical school. Additionally, I am Christian and am wanting an environment that will cultivate my faith, and keep that as one of the central aspects of my life while I am in school, and have heard that schools like Carleton are definitely not religious institutions whose beliefs may not entirely align with mine. This is where St. Olaf comes in, as I know that this is a school where I will not have to worry about my faith becoming corrupted, however I was not sure how well that it will set me up for getting into a very good medical school and becoming a doctor, as I do not know about the opportunities there and how well I will be set up for success. Additionally, I know that St. Olaf is much more affordable of a school.

Overall, I am not sure which of these schools would be best for me, with pre-med programs, extracurriculars for applying to med school, cost, and religion all factored in together. If anyone has any advice on what I should do moving on and deciding, or even if anyone has any other schools that would fit my situation, I would be very happy to listen. Thank you!!!

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If you’re a strong enough applicant to consider Williams/Amherst/Carleton, but want a faith-based school with strong premed, my first thought is Pepperdine. Pre-Health Professions: FAQ | Pepperdine University | Seaver College

St. Olaf is church affiliated, but you wouldn’t find the student body to be pre-filtered for religious beliefs the way it would be at Pepperdine. St. Olaf is pretty diverse in terms of religion, politics, etc. If you decide to visit St. Olaf and check it out for yourself, you might also want to visit Gustavus Adolphus, which is also strong in life sciences and ELCA-affiliated. It’s about an hour from Northfield, and it offers some pretty generous merit scholarships. Pre-Medicine - Pre-Professional Program | Academics

Wheaton (IL) could be another one to consider. https://www.wheaton.edu/academics/programs/healthprofessions/pre-health-tracks/

Also, maybe Baylor? They have a direct-entry program, if your application is very strong: https://admissions.web.baylor.edu/costs-aid/scholarship-programs/baylor2baylor-medical-program

Even at very secular schools, both of my kids had friends who were committed Christians and involved in faith-based groups. There’s plenty of support available at most public and private institutions; the question is whether you want a stronger consensus, across the whole student body, on matters of faith. For someone who will need to work with people from many different backgrounds, as a physician, there’s something to be said for experiencing diversity of belief in college; but there are good faith-based schools you can choose, as well.

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It would help to know more about your stats, ECs, and other achievements or essential parts of your background before we give advice on possible schools for you. It would also hope to know about other preferences – clearly you like LACs, but are you opposed to bigger universities? To you have a preference for region? Rural/urban? Etc. Are you eligible for financial aid? Have you run NPCs to see if you are eligible for significant aid? Without this information, it’s hard to help determine fit.

It sounds like you’re looking for a college with a high percentage of practicing Christians, which is good to know. I will say that St. Olaf, while officially representing a religious denomination, isn’t truly a Christian college in the sense that you might be thinking – it’s actually quite diverse in religious representation and pretty liberal politically, if that matters to you. As far as schools like Carleton and Williams, you will find observant Christians at these schools and pretty much everywhere else. It might be useful to check out the Chaplains’ websites and look at information about religious life on campus. I think you’ll be surprised at what you find. You might also look at schools like Hillsdale, Wheaton College (IL), Calvin College, Rhodes, Pepperdine, Baylor, SMU, and some others with stronger religious affiliations (or, rather, a stronger match between affiliation and student body) than St. Olaf.

I am a little concerned about your comment about fearing your faith will become corrupted. Whether or not you have a change of heart (totally not my business) is more about you than about the school you attend. Just about any school will give you the means to participate in a faith community, so a little diversity shouldn’t scare you. In fact, if you’re planning to be a doctor, it might help to immerse yourself in communities with people who bring lots of different perspectives and backgrounds to the table – because one day, as a doctor, you’ll have to work with diverse colleague and patients who might challenge you in the same way.

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St Olaf’s is a great school if you are considering continuing on to med school. (Their med school acceptance rate is 72% compared to the national average of 47%).

While St. Olaf has a Lutheran foundation, a large chunk (43%) of students have no religious affiliation. If you are looking for a Christian school, it may not be the best fit. This page offers more information about religion on campus: Exploration of Faith – Admissions.

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First, run the Net Price Calculator on all of these colleges, including those suggested upthread (or ask your parents to run the NPC for you if they don’t want you to know their financial situation).
“sticker cost” – official published costs – is not the net cost for most/many families. In fact, the most expensive "sticker price"colleges may be the most generous with financial aid and thus your “net cost” may be the lowest at colleges that had the highest “sticker price”!

Can you share the NPC results per college, whether that’s need based or merit based, and whether that’s “within budget” for your parents.

You’ll notice each number is different- that’s because each college has their own formula. As a result, you can’t run the NPC for one college and think you’re done, you have to do it for each college on your list. :frowning:
Are these results within budget - make sure your parents communicate what your budget is and whether any of these colleges is within budget.

Based on the NPCs, do you qualify for financial aid? Pell grants?
St Olaf, Gustavus Adolphus (as well as Concordia Moorhead, Luther IA…) all also offer merit aid and the criteria vary - generally you need to be in the top 25% of applicants or even in the top 10% of applicants to get merit aid at colleges that award it.
Some colleges don’t offer merit aid, only need-based aid – including Carleton, Grinnell, Amherst, Williams…

Your list of colleges should be based on the NPC results: no point in applying to unaffordable colleges.
Then, it should include 2 colleges that are within budget for your parents, where you’re sure to get into, and that you like well enough so that, if push comes to shove, you would attend.
For you, it may mean Luther, Gustavus, Concordia Moorhead, St Kate’s in thr Twin Cities…
Once these 2 colleges have been identified, you can add targets - affordable (as per the NPC) colleges where you’re in the top half to top 25% applicants and/or an acceptance rate in the 35-55% range. You can have 3-5 of those, so you can compare costs and vibe.
Finally, you add reaches - no merit to be expected there so the net cost must be within budget without OR the merit scholarship you’re hoping for makes it a reach.

Wrt med school, all US med school are topnotch.
StOlaf is well-known for the quality of its premed program.
Premed pre-reqs can be added to ANY major – Economics, Applied math, Norwegian, Religion…
And most would-be premeds discover something else while in college and never apply to med school, so all would be premeds need a plan B. What would yours be?

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OP is a rising senior. They have not been accepted into any of these schools yet. I think it is important to get OPs stats. Even if they are high, this may not even be an issue with single digit acceptance rates.

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Some thoughts.

  1. You can take the required courses for medical school admissions at just about every four year college in this country, arts conservatories excluded.

  2. You should consider costs. Medical school will likely be $100,000 a year by the time you get there…if you do. There is precious little aid for medical school which is usually funded with loans, loans and more loans…and the bank of mom and dad.

  3. I’m not sure what you mean by a “reputable” medical school. At the end of the day, you will be a doctor regardless of which medical school from which you graduate. It’s not like you will more or better if you attend Yale Medical School than if you attend a public university in your state or a D.O. School.

  4. I would suggest you look at Rhodes College as an undergrad option.

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Even students with perfect SAT or ACT scores and perfect GPAs get rejected from schools with very low acceptance rates every year. There are not enough seats for all of the well qualified applicants at these schools.

This poster is wise to consider a variety of colleges with varying rates of acceptance.

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St. Olaf offers a strong biology program and would not seem to represent an academic compromise for a premed student. Hillsdale offers a similarly strong biology program and places higher in U.S. News, should this be of interest to you. With respect to ultra-selectives, perhaps consider Swarthmore and Haverford.

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Others can help you better if you describe:

  • Academic credentials.
  • Budget for college and medical school.
  • Religious denominational preference, and how much you want religion to be integral to campus life.
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To give you an idea of various types of colleges with a religious affiliation:

  • some have a chapel on campus but attendance is non mandatory; classes in religion are required but represent it as knowledge to analyze and understand, not dogma to absorb and memorize, and various faiths’ perspectives are included. There are various chaplains and religious groups on campus. There’s usually an Honors code.
    Examples of this would be St Olaf, Holy Cross
  • there are monks/nuns/pastors on campus and teaching classes, crucifixes or crosses in classrooms; there’s a chapel and attendance is required a few times a semester; there are mandatory theology and/or Bible classes but there are options to take them as “cultural” or “faith”.
    Examples of this would be Rhodes, Fordham.
  • all of the above but the theology classes are Bible classes and chapel attendance is required. There’s a creed to sign and a code of conduct. Examples include Notre Dame, Pepperdine.
  • all the classes are infused with evangelical Christian ideas and all professors must be Christian in agreement with the college’s creed (very few exceptions). The code of conduct is very strict and may bar dancing, drinking alcohol even above the age of 21, drinking coffee, playing cards, jewelry, etc (it varies). Examples of this would be Wheaton IL, Messiah, Baylor.
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Adding to this…if OP is considering such schools, a pre-med major might ask if evolution is taught as a scientific fact. There are schools where that may not be the case and/or personnel equivocate when directly asked this question.

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The OP also may benefit from stating their intended major.

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Good point.
Also, med schools want to see applicants who have experience living/working/interacting with a broad diversity of people so you must make sure it’s clear in your application that you’re used to interacting with people who have different backgrounds, belief systems, languages, etc. … because that’s what doctors do day in/day out, and inability to be 100% with people who are different from you will hinder your ability to do your job.
It may seem scary as an 18 year old but it’s essential to be a good doctor. All throughout college you’ll be looking for these different experiences, meeting different people.

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To my understanding, Grinnell is actually pretty generous with merit aid (an exception among tippy-top LACs).

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Yes, definitely, I was going to mention it, too.

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You may want to consider Lipscomb in Nashville. Nashville is not only “music city”, but also the “healthcare capital of the US”. While that references mostly to all the healthcare companies that are headquartered there, there are also lots of clinical/research opportunities for extracurriculars, and they provide good support to get students into it and have a great record of acceptance to med schools. Good merit scholarships for high stats too.

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That’s why I said this may not be a non issue. OP might get into none or all of these schools.

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Hillsdale College.

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What’s your unweighted GPA?
What AP/IB/DE/PSEO classes have you taken or plan to take?
By graduation, will you have taken precalculus ? Calculus? Higher than Calc? Foreign language level 3,4, or AP? Studied aln 3 of Bio, chem, physics?
Do you plan to take the SAT or ACT, or have you taken it already?

Lipscomb and Hillsdale would belong to the 4th Category of colleges (where 0 would be your public university or an unaffiliated private college and the 4 listed upthread).