Chance Me: AL resident, 4.0/36 ACT for math/econ 2025 at Brown ED and others [<$20k on parent income $110k]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • US Citizen
  • Alabama but I have in-state rates at all FL public schools b/c grandparent waiver
  • Public school, ~1.2k students
  • Wasian (Korean/English) male
  • No hooks other than geographic

Intended Major(s)
Most likely math/applied math but considering cs/econ (won’t apply as either)

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.35 (4.5- honors and 5.0- ap) (lots of graduation requirements are 4.0 only and some high lvl dual enrollment courses aren’t factored into HS gpa at all)
  • Dual Enrollment GPA: 4.0
  • Class Rank: ~15/268
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 36 ACT, 1510 SAT (not submitting)

Coursework (including projected senior year)

  • APs (all jr year or earlier)- Calc AB/BC, Chem, Physics 1, Lang, Microeconomics
  • Dual Enrollment (only classes of note) (some are next yr)- Discrete math, real analysis, theory of probability, abstract algebra, linear algebra, topology

Awards
*Top 30 at national debate competition
*Ranked within the top 200 debaters in the US
*1st place 2x at a state math competition
*1st place 2x at another state math competition
*All state band 2x top band
Extracurriculars
*Founder of a debate tutoring and prep group (not registered as a nonprofit but all services are free) serving ~200 right now, planning on hosting a summer camp this summer and collectively coached a debater to the most selective debate tournament in the country (TOC)
*Project lead for a debate nonprofit that serves >10,000 (maybe more idk tbh)
*Tutor and frequent judge for a debate tutoring organization, recruited by them because of my involvement with the above
*Debate (me competing)
*Bassoon (best in the state, multiple instances)
*Tutoring at a local Korean church
*Math team captain
*Fairly selective journalism summer program

  • side note- I applied to MITES this year and if I get in then ill put it on the app, if not then judge without this

Essays/LORs/Other
*Current draft of the CommonApp essay is on embracing weirdness and using it as a tool for innovation and getting around difficulty, links back kinda to my top EC and is an extended metaphor about an improv jazz solo, current state I would say 8/10 ish but I think 9-10 is doable by November 1
*LORs- Physics teacher: 5.5-6/10, Math team teacher/coach: 7.5/10, Nonprofit director: 10/10 I’ve read it its fire, Church tutoring organizer: 5-6/10 (ESL but I read it and it should be fine)

Cost Constraints / Budget
*Family AGI is ~110K, would like to keep costs after financial aid under 20k

Schools

  • Safety- FSU RD
  • Likely- Macalester College RD
  • Match- UF, BU? idk how admit rates are this year- both RD
  • Reach-
    ED- Brown
    RD- Dartmouth, Amherst College, Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, Emory (for woodruff), MIT, Northwestern, UChicago
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Are you a Junior? I assume based on your all APs Junior year or earlier.

There is no assurance of the grandparent waiver in Florida - although you’d likely get an OOS at FSU regardless.

Are you an NMF?

Have you run any net price calculators (your parents should) for Mac, BU, Brown, and all your RD - since they don’t give need aid? If one costs you $50K and you want to keep it at $20K, it wouldn’t make sense to apply.

And you know - Alabama, as an example, you’d be under budget with your stats.

Tell me more - so I can make a better assessment please.

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  1. Im a current junior, but plan on taking exclusively upper level college courses senior year
  2. 1500 PSAT with a 224 index so probably
  3. Ive ran NPCs for Brown and its under budget, same with others, brown gives a lot of NMF, also they do give need aid- TF bro?
  4. Hell no. I live in the city and the environment is screwing my mental health. Ive talked with my parents and we’ve agreed that even though I get payed to go to Alabama im not taking it (used to live in FL and huge culture shock)
  5. What else do you need? I can probably give any additional info I just don’t know what
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Congrats on a great record.

Many schools - including FSU - have a NMF program. As far as smaller, high level schools, U of Tulsa is - at last count 25% NMFs and provides a full ride. Others like UTD and U Maine do as well. Tulsa is a very fine school.

Brown only gives need aid. I could be wrong - but I don’t believe they provide NMF money. Most schools provide just a small supplement if anything - but those schools offer merit aid.

At $110K in income, your parents might be in the donut hole - i.e have a bigger expense than they believe.

This is why they must do the net price calculators before you apply anywhere.

So a school like Mac for example - will provide aid differently than Brown. Some schools include home equity, some don’t. So before building a list you need to do that - for each. Of your ED (and you better triple check the NPC as you’d be bound) - and then your RDs - none but Emory and U Chicago offer merit aid - and those two schools it’s skinny. Mac offers merit aid - but you still need to check the NPC, because if you get $25K in merit, you won’t be close to your $20K.

So I’d look at Tulsa as a sub for many of these schools on your list - it’s very good, it’s near assured, and it’ll be free with NMSF.

And then see how the others show on the NPCs.

But I do agree you’d be a likely for FSU - but going to both Tuscaloosa (where I used to go for work as well as my son attending) and to Tallahassee where I still go for work - the FSU campus is smaller - but I’m not sure if you’re wanting the hack out of Tuscaloosa that Tallahassee would be any better.

BU - if you were not ED, would not be easy - and again, you need to look at the NPC (really for all) if your $20K is hard and fast.

Rice isn’t on your list - but here’s an example that some top schools might offer (not this program but a similar type).

At your parents income, if their assets aren’t high, you’d get free tuition.

My main point here is - now that you’ve got a list - now run it through each school’s NPC to ensure they work within your means. All may not - with a $110K salary (and I don’t know their assets).

Good luck

The Rice Investment | Office of Financial Aid | Rice University

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Ohhhhh I thought you meant like brown doesn’t give finaid, yeah I misunderstood they dont give merit aid
We did NPCs multiple times over with every possible permutation because we’re in the “screw zone” for finaid, I had to drop a few schools b/c of that (mostly california schools- go figure)
I was actually thinking about Rice for a bit lol, might swap NW out for it
Thanks for the insight!

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Since you are so advanced in math, you may want to check the math department course offerings at the various colleges to make sure that they offer enough upper level (and perhaps graduate level) courses to keep you interested.

Also, check the math prerequisites of intermediate economics and econometrics courses in the economics department; as a student who likes math, you may prefer a school where the economics courses use a higher level of math.

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Based on your interest in mathematics, some of these colleges may be of interest:

With respect to your ultimate choice of major, you may benefit from considering data science, which combines statistics and computing with an applied domain, such as economics. Macalester from your list offers an excellent data science program, for example. For a potential addition, look into the Brown-like Wesleyan University, which offers an interdisciplinary Quantitative Analysis Center. For further ideas, this analysis offers information on economics departments at liberal arts colleges: https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html.

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Based on the income numbers you have posted you likely won’t be in the “donut hole” at Brown and to be clear they do give “financial need based aid” and it likely would make sense to apply.

Additional Initiatives Unique to Brown | Financial Aid Undergradute | Brown University.

Brown’s Applied Math department consistently ranks at or near the very top globally. Graduates go on to a variety of careers including academia, Wall Street, management consulting and start ups.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/applied-mathematics-rankings

Clear and it makes sense given UA has virtually nothing in common with your stated preferred ED Brown. You will undoubtedly find better academic fits that are affordable.

If you have any specific questions about Brown please DM. Good luck.

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I ditto the Wesleyan University rec, especially since a lot of your RD choices (Princeton, Harvard, Cornell and Dartmouth specifically) are unlikely Plan Bs in the event you don’t get into Brown during the ED1 round. Wesleyan shares a lot of DNA with Dartmouth and Brown and is about double their acceptance rate. It’s also the only LAC in the country with an active doctoral program in Math; advanced undergrads don’t have to worry about burning through the curriculum. An NPC run would likely garner good results.

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I think you mean that some of those schools don’t give merit aid (but do offer need-based aid).

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I believe these schools give mostly need based aid.

I’m glad you have done the NPCs and they appear to be at your price point.

That’s great!

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This student has said multiple times that they have done the net price calculators.

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Here is the University of Tulsa NMF award.

The University of Tulsa is pleased to award admitted National Merit Semifinalists its highest academic scholarship, the National Merit Semifinalist Package. TU recognizes the outstanding academic success of a National Merit Semifinalist and believes these students will have a remarkable impact on campus life.

The university, along with the Oklahoma Board of Regents and the Board of Trustees, will invest more than $285,000 per student (over four years) through the National Merit Semifinalist Package.

Award

  • Full tuition (excluding summers) for five years or until an undergraduate degree is earned. Students must maintain a minimum of 15 hours of coursework per semester.
  • Tier I Housing (upgrades are available at your expense)
  • Tier II Dining (upgrades are available at your expense)
  • Standard Student Fees
  • Textbooks (all incoming students receive free textbooks for the entirety of their undergraduate years)
  • Secured spot in Leadership TU led by President Brad Carson
  • A minimum $750 scholarship for National Merit Finalists from the National Merit organization. Renewability is based on the type of National Merit funding received.
  • $6,000 monetary gift per year (funded by the Oklahoma Regents or the TU Board of Trustees)

** A portion of your supplemental scholarship paid for by the National Merit Scholarship Corporation and Oklahoma State Regents will be applied to your student account within the first six weeks of each semester.*

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Wesleyan is a great school with a fine math program, but it is need aware which may impact a student’s chances of admission. I’m not suggesting he doesn’t apply, just to be cognizant of that fact.

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That’s a good point and along those same lines, I would certainly recommend that the OP submit his ACT scores. Wesleyan is increasingly less need-aware as time goes by and its financial picture improves; I’d be surprised if more than a few dozen cases a year are affected by it and it’s unlikely they would involve high-scoring, male STEM majors from Alabama.

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You are most likely correct since I’d guess that Wesleyan isn’t getting a lot of applicants from AL and the OP is an excellent student with a lot going for him. As I mentioned above, my comment wasn’t to dissuade him (and it isn’t a knock on Wesleyan - IMO, it’s better to meet full need and be need aware than be need “blind” but not meet full need) - I just think it is important to be aware of these nuances.

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You don’t need to have 2 extra LORs – especially if it won’t be incredible. I would drop it.

A 28% acceptance rate isn’t a likely for anyone…your Alabama address will likely help some, but match is better.

Similar with BU - 11% acceptance is a reach for anyone.

I don’t know much about UF and in/state out state stuff…

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Well, as long as we are being nuanced, I would point out that Macalester which is the only match listed among the OP’s RD picks, is also need-aware.

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One more thing: really can’t chance you without full course selections.

For those reach schools they will want to see you taking the top -level offered at your HS for each subject…e.g I am not seeing APUSH or AP Lang in jr year which are considered very standard (even for math majors) at ivy-level schools.

If you are taking less than hardest level and you could be, e.g no AP caps at your school…that will put you at a disadvantage.

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That’s important for them to know as well - I’m not as familiar with Macalester but know Wesleyan fairly well (family members have attended).