Chance me for Penn (Huntsman & Wharton) ED! 2025, VA resident, 4.0 UW, 1580 SAT, but unfocused ECs

Chance Me / Match Me
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1

Demographics:
US citizen

  • State/Location of residency: VA
  • Type of high school (current college for transfers): Mid-sized semi-competitive public (sends around 10-20 students out of 2,000ish to T20s, but has a massive free/reduced cost lunch population as well)
  • Gender/Race/Ethnicity (optional): Asian female
  • Other special factors (first generation to college, legacy, athlete, etc.): LGBTQ (idk if that’s even a hook LOL)

Intended Major(s): At Penn, Int’l Studies and Business through Huntsman Program,
Anywhere else, History or Economics/Business depending on school

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.76, A in AP/honors class=5.0, A in electives or non-leveled=4.0
  • Class Rank: school does not rank
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1580 (800 RW, 780 M)

Coursework
11 honors, 15 APs, 7 non-leveled (electives or no honors offered) classes by graduation
Sophomore: AP World History, AP Spanish Lang, AP Calc AB (all 5s)
Junior: AP Calc BC, AP US History, AP English Lang, AP Microeconomics, AP Physics 2 (scores pending)
Senior: AP Stats, AP Gov, AP Euro History, AP Environmental Science, AP English Lit, AP Comp Gov (planned)

AP Macroecon and AP Spanish Lit are not offered at my school
Did 2 years of Spanish in middle school and 2 years in high school (reached highest level in sophomore year, continued self-studying outside of school)

Awards

  1. National History Day Finalist (top 10 in my category, international- yes I know NHD’s name is contradictory LMAO)
  2. Special award at NHD, $1000 from a US federal agency (best project in broad topic- think military history or medical history)
  3. National Merit Semifinalist (ik this hasn’t even come out yet for class of '25, but my index was 227/228 so I’m guaranteed in my state to at least be semifinalist)
  4. High School Diplomats Finalist (national summer program with 10 people selected to attend, I made it to the finalist stage but then I got rejected LOL)
  5. 2nd place in state History Day

Extracurriculars

  1. Founding member, NHD Team (9th-12th)
    Worked on historical research projects including discovering unknown local history, interviewing high-profile community members and law school professors to document local oral history. Assisted other team members with their projects. Internationally recognized

  2. Co-Founder, community service org (11th-12th)
    Keeping this vague to avoid doxxing but co-founded org to fund local nonprofit. Not nepotism/parent funded either, I would go into more detail but I don’t want to risk it. Helped to create 2 other branches in state to expand funding for other nonprofits. Raising $1000 for org by May 2024 (org is pretty small so $1000 will be a definite impact for them), pretty close to goal right now.

  3. Summer Spanish academy (not showing year to prevent doxxing)
    Selected as 1/60 statewide to study Spanish in a free full-immersion summer program

  4. Co-Founder/Co-President, school civics org, 10th-12th
    Founded organization that created both the Model UN and speech/debate team at my school. Both clubs under umbrella organization have grown a lot (MUN has 30+ members, speech/debate has 16), speech/debate team has won several regional/state awards in its first two years

  5. Co-Captain, FIRST Robotics, 9th-12th
    Co-captain of team and outreach lead. Helped to lead effort to incorporate club as a 501c3 nonprofit (and it worked out!! Yay!!), now learning to write grants to fund club. Oversaw 200+ hours of community outreach/volunteering at STEM-related orgs/events, raised over $5k as a school-based team through cold emails (we have no connections LMAO) alone

  6. Interpretation and Translation Intern at school division, 10th-12th
    Training to become an interpreter for school district, volunteering and shadowing at community events to sharpen Spanish interpretation skills. Selected in competitive process at my school

  7. President, Spanish Honor Society, 9th-10th
    Did normal honor society stuff like inductions/organizing service hours. Had to step down in 10th due to no longer being enrolled in Spanish

  8. NHS (11th-12th)

  9. Varsity sport (was absolutely horrible at it, quit after 1 year due to bullying), 10th

  10. English/History/Math Honor Societies

I am also in the running for BofA Student Leaders this year, my area is very uncompetitive so I think there’s a fair chance I might be accepted.

Essays/LORs/Other
No clue how my essays will be but I’m going to assume they’re at least decent.

LORs:
Counselor: 7/10 (she knows stuff about me but not that deeply, she did recommend me for a scholarship without me even asking though)
Independent study supervisor (worked with on NHD and other out of school activities), 10/10 (she has expressed several times that she’d write me an amazing rec, I absolutely love her)
AP World teacher (also sponsor of school civics org), 8/10 (she’s written me good letters in the past, but now uses ChatGPT for them??)
AP Micro teacher (also sport coach), 7/10 (he kinda likes me and I think he pities me bc of the bullying I experienced in the sport he coached LOL)

Cost Constraints / Budget
Full pay

Schools

  • Safety (certain admission and affordability)
    JMU
  • Likely (would be possible, but very unlikely or surprising, for it not to admit or be affordable)
    William Mary
    George Washington University
  • Match
    UVA
  • Reach
    Penn ED (Huntsman Program, Wharton 2nd choice)
    Harvard (because why not)
    UMich
    Carnegie Mellon
2

No way to chance you for what you are asking but you have a wonderful profile and seem to be properly labeled to me. You’re a Junior I assume?

Best of luck…fine profile.

3

You have a very strong profile and I would not worry about your ECs, they seem fine to me. I do wonder if there is a STEM recommender you could possibly use.

In terms of classifying colleges, at our feederish HS we will not classify something as a Likely, even with very high numbers, unless the overall admit rate for your type of applicant is 50%+. William & Mary with a 39% in-state admit rate and George Washington with a 43.5% admit rate would therefore be classified as a “Target” for you.

This is not a huge deal because JMU is a solid Likely. But you might consider adding at least one other Likely. Since you are interested in International Business, I wonder if you would be interested in the University of South Carolina, which has a really, really good International Business program, and also a nice honors college:

https://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/honors_college/index.php

Understanding William & Mary and George Washington are more Targets, I think your list is otherwise pretty complete.

But I do wonder if you have considered Georgetown. It seems like a notable possibility given your interests, particularly SFS (the Walsh School of Foreign Service). Despite the name, it is an all-around international studies school, with a variety of interesting majors:

GBUS, the Global Business major, would seem of possible interest to you, and also IECO (International Economics) and IHIS (International History. Or you can do a joint degree in Business and Global Affairs (BGA) with the McDonough School of Business.

Up to you, of course, but when you were describing your interests it just immediately occurred to me as a strong fit.

4

As you know super hard to get into Penn, but you seem to have a profiled to put you in the mix.

You might want to see if your summer can have a more businessy-EC to match your desire for business major…Another thought is to frame your outreach work for Robotics seem more like “marketing and operations” which I suspect it is. You certainly have evidence for international studies. Same with the Community Service org they founded…

I would also make sure to be strategic in what you put in brag sheets to recommenders (assuming they ask) to make sure not entirely redundant content and each adds new aspects of you… obviously work on essays especially supplemental ones!

AP Chem or AP Physics C or I think even bio are considered more rigorous than APES (no clue if those are offered or anything, but just an FYI).

Especially given interest in Int’l business I would play up that you have kept up your Spanish and make sure it is noted somewhere (by counselor ideally, if not in additional notes) that AP Span Lang was highest offered at your school so they know you didn’t “skip” AP Span Lit.

Other school thoughts: Tufts, American, U of Denver (has strong int’l studies), JHU…

5

(PS I am obviously not reading your application, but I kind of like your ECs have different facets - the Robotics team was surprising, and think it makes you a more interesting candidate personally - though who knows what a reader will think on a particular day:)

6

Congratulations on your accomplishments! NHD is competitive and being named a finalist is quite the achievement.

Your profile seems more humanities than business focused to me. For applicants to Huntsman, AOs are looking for a “genuine interest in both business and international affairs.” Make sure you are able to articulate how Huntsman will help you achieve your academic and professional goals. Wharton will also expect to see a genuine interest in business. I like the suggestion upthread to reframe your robotics outreach work to highlight the business aspect of it.

I noticed you didn’t list a Calculus class for senior year. Is the next level of Calculus offered at your high school? While AP Stats is useful for business, it is considered less rigorous than multivariable Calculus and could count against you in a comparative analysis with your high school peers who may also be applying to Penn.

I try to manage expectations in these chance threads because the applicant pool is incredibly competitive. Top stats/ECs are table stakes. It may be enough for Penn or it may not. You have a fantastic profile though and I predict you will have many good options from which to choose. Best of luck to you!

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7

Thank you so much for the school recommendations and details! I will definitely look into Georgetown, although (I’m not sure how true this is) I’ve heard some negative things about the religious atmosphere there (I’m pretty atheist). Any knowledge on the student body/environment? Thanks again!!

8

Hi there, thank you so much for the advice. I am definitely aiming for a business EC this summer with Bank of America Student Leaders. I also love your suggestion on reframing Robotics as more on the marketing side, because it truly is. I’ve spent an ungodly amount of hours on fundraising and marketing and it’s nearly driven me insane lol.

As for the AP sciences, my school does not offer Physics C but it does offer Bio and Chem. The issue here is that both teachers are absolutely horrendous (their score averages are around 2) and I also hate science with a passion. Given that I’m more aiming for humanities/social science, would it be acceptable to take APES and then just hard load on humanities/self study Macro?

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9

Georgetown is nominally Jesuit, but no one I know of who was non-Catholic, non-Christian, or non-religious has had any sort of religion problem at Georgetown.

I note in their CDS they mark Religious affiliation/commitment as “Not Considered”. This is in contrast to, say, Notre Dame, which marks it “Considered”.

So personally, I would consider this a non-factor at Georgetown.

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10

Thanks for the advice! My school does offer Calc 3, but I’m already struggling in BC (but managing to teeter on the edge of a low A). I genuinely dislike and am bad at STEM, especially vectors/matrices which I have experience with in precalc/Physics 2. I think it’s very possible I will not do well in Calc 3 and I don’t want to personally risk that when Stats is a really useful class that I think is feasible for my math abilities.

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Sounds great, thank you so much for looking into it!

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12

I think you should do AP ES then to save your self lots of struggle… I do not think AP ES vs AP Chem really will be a difference in any decision:) Just throwing out there. If all things are equal, then one may be slightly preferable to an AO…but things are definitely not equal here and I am 100% in favor of prioritizing wellbeing:)

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13

Take AP Chem preferably, or Bio. A harder teacher is really not an excuse. APES is known to be easier, and as you said your HS does not send too many to T20s let alone T10s: you want to stand out compared to your peers and that starts with course rigor. Top colleges such as Penn want you to challenge yourself in all areas, even ones you dislike. They actually say that in their info sessions. Only hooked kids from schools in our area (also VA) get in to that level of school with APES as the only AP science, or some other relative weakness in rigor. Take something harder than APStats for math if it is available. Selfstudying Macro will not add anything positive to your application.
For what it is worth, UVA also cares a lot about rigor, and though there seems to more wiggle room compared to what T10s admit, do not presume avoiding the highest math available to you, and the harder sciences, will be overlooked by Uva.

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14

both my kids were social science kids and took APES instead of AP Chem and Bio. They landed at Penn and Yale

15

APES is not my only AP science, I am currently in AP Physics 2 right now. See my reasoning above for not taking Calc 3 (I’m in BC at the moment).

I personally know that I will not do well in either AP Chem or AP Bio. It’s not that the teachers are difficult, it is that they are either constantly not at school or horrendous at teaching. My course rigor in terms of sciences is only less rigorous than 10-15 students at my school (whom I also personally know, and 90% of them have far less rigor on the humanities side than I do), and taking BC in junior year is extremely uncommon as well. Calc 3 enrolls about 5-10 students a year.

Personally, I don’t think risking the GPA drop is worth it to add a little more rigor to my already insane schedule. My school does not rank, but my counselor has implied that I’m valedictorian.

I do appreciate your perspective a lot, it’s great to hear your opinion and to have another side to things! Thanks so much.

16

Georgetown is a Jesuit college. You will find people of all faiths there. The Jesuit mission is giving back to communities, and community service. It’s not recruiting folks to become Catholic.

I don’t know if Georgetown has a religion course requirement or not but this should be easy enough to check. My kid went to Santa Clara (another Jesuit college…we are not Catholic), and there was a religion requirement but there were also 100 or so courses one could take to meet it. My kid took a Women in Religion course that she said was one of the best courses she took. She also did an ethics course.

I don’t think you need to worry about not being Catholic at Georgetown.

Having said that, if you will be bothered by seeing religious things, look elsewhere. There will be Christmas trees, and likely crosses around the campus.

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17

This is why chance threads are so difficult for colleges that practice holistic admissions. Unless your kids had a comparable profile to OPs, we’re all just throwing darts in the dark. Maybe your kids had better essays and LORs. If you’re full pay, that makes a difference too. Perhaps there are fewer applicants from your state versus Virginia. It all matters in holistic review.

None of us knows whether OP will be admitted, but if Penn is telling prospective applicants that rigor is important then I would believe them.

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18

I understand what you are saying but I also went twice (once with each kid) And they are not saying for the humanities kids to take all AP sciences. They are looking for you to take a rigorous course load compared to what is offered at your school. Your counselor needs to check that box on your report. For my kids we come from a state with similar number of applicants as VA. I think if the OP doesn’t like/excel at STEM encouraging them to take AP Chem or Bio with a bad teacher is BAD advice. I would encourage the OP to spend their time on balancing out their ECs with a state level internship or something that helps with a narrative that shows growth and action in field that they are interested in.

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I totally agree with you!

20

Which OP is not doing by avoiding the more rigorous science and math classes. Bad teachers abound. I had downright cruel professors in college and law school. It’s not a good reason to avoid a class. Hopefully, it all works out for OP.

Edited to add: I am astonished by posters like this one who say they are targeting top colleges, but are unwilling to challenge themselves. Courses at top colleges move very fast and can be challenging for even well-prepared students. Potential applicants should be honest with themselves if that sort of environment is (a) one in which they could thrive and (b) would even be a good academic fit.

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