Chance Me for T20 business/econ schools & should I ED to Cornell Dyson or UPenn Wharton? [MA resident, 3.96 UW, 1560 SAT, first gen]

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Demographics

  • US Permanent Resident (Massachusetts)
  • Public suburban high school
  • First Gen

Cost Constraints / Budget
Vetted all my schools already and decided to take a shot at NYU & BU despite them being pretty bad for aid. Middle class household (~200K income).

Intended Major(s): economics + finance with a minor in polisci (or business school if it’s significantly stronger)

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.96/4.3 (approx. 3.84 on the UC scale)
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.76/5.0
  • Class Rank: school doesn’t rank
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1560 (770 RW, 790 M)

HS Coursework:

  • English: Freshman English (Honors), Sophomore English (Honors), AP Lang (5), AP Lit (5 predicted)
  • Math (accelerated track): Algebra 2 (Honors), Precalc (Honors), AP Calc BC (5), Linear Algebra & Number Theory (post-calc courses; honors weight), AP Stats (5)
  • Science: Freshman Physics (Honors), Sophomore Bio (Honors), Junior year Chem (Honors), Physics C (both E&M and Mechanics; idk predicted); AP CSP (4)
  • History and social studies: freshman & sophomore year history (Honors), APUSH (5), AP Gov (5 predicted); dual enrollment economics and personal finance junior year (DE weight for both half-year-long courses; ended with an A- and an A respectively)
  • Language other than English: AP Chinese (taken outside of school, scored a 5); AP French (5 predicted)
  • Visual or performing arts: Full orchestra (2 years, honors weight); honors orchestra (2 years, honors weight)

Awards

  • winner of an pitch competition @ harvard
  • honorable mention in ivy-run international essay contest
  • 2x state piano competition winner, 1x national (not sure about including because I quit piano after junior year)
  • international business case competition top 5% (not prestigious)
  • performed at Carnegie hall sophomore year (idk if I should include this because I quit orchestra the next year due to an abusive conductor)
  • national merit commended scholar
  • random speech & debate / mun awards
  • National Honor Society
  • AP Scholar with Distinction

Extracurriculars
1 - financial literacy passion project (11, 12):

started feb 2025. reached 300+ students statewide across 4 workshops; secured partnerships w/ 7+ state agencies; featued in local news & publicly endorsed by state rep; wrote a 20-page paper on state policy & 5+ policy briefs; testified at my state house; raised 1.5k; presented policy proposal @ harvard and will be attending a national conference for financial educators in november.

2 - startups (9, 12):

founded a startup my freshman year and that went as well as you’d expect. currently working on a fintech one (venture-backed) and raised $5k pre-seed, with beta expected to release in november.

3 - business club president (12):

Mentored 160 peers in 10+ pitch & case comps; hosted 5+ speaker sessions (~40 attendees each) with fortune 500 execs & T20 faculty. Ranked top 10% in international investment comp ‘24; captain in the same comp '25.

4 - model un treasurer (12); fundraising team (11):

secured town seed grant to launch a pooled fund serving 138+ delegates; managed fees/travel for 30+ over 6 annual MUNs. Trained 40 novices; Outstanding delegate @ regional conference (400+ field).

5 - stuco treasurer (11):

Planned, marketed, & executed 8 fundraisers + 2 dances ($30K+ revenue); cut prom to $85 per ticket for 405 attendees; negotiated venues/catering; oversaw junior merch and other school spirit shenaniagans.

6 - speech & debate (9,10,11,12):

Mentored 17 novices; led casewriting for 16+ topics; judged 120+ practice rounds; co-ran annual 150-attendee tourney ($2K+ raised annually). NSDA Degree of Distinction. (main issue is that I didn’t compete or break as much as i should have)

7 - summer research program @ harvard (12):

did it summer of my senior year and learned a lot about stats (fun educational experience, currently grinding research projects & cold emailing.) slightly cooked on this front bc i have no time :frowning:

8 - startup internships (10, actually 2 of my major ones rolled into one activity):

Cold-called 250-300 real estate agents/week (10% conversion rate; 5 deals closed); researched 60+ real estate AI/SaaS tools; published 40 industry analyses (avg. 5K reached across various social channels)

9 - jobs (9, 10, 11, 12):

worked 2 jobs my sophomore & junior years; been employed since freshman year. delivered 750+ hrs service total across my service and tutoring jobs ($15K earned). Served 20-35 residents/shift (95% customer satisfaction rate) & tutored 10-15/shift (100+ sets graded). Trained 5 staff.

10 - orchestra & violin/viola tutor (9, 10, 11, 12):

Taught 20 pupils/wk (150+ hrs) & earned $500 teaching excellence award; coordinated 6 concerts/yr (300-1.5k average attendance). 2x districts quals; Carnegie Hall '24.

Essays/LORs/Other
I confess im a massive procrastinator and have thus…not started my personal statement (I have a draft it just sucks by my own writerly standards; i write fanfics for fun if that wasn’t clear)

  • LOR from my APUSH teacher (9/10, we’re besties but he’s also pretty nonchalant)
  • LOR from my physics C teacher (9/10, she seems to like me and me being generally a yapper doesn’t hurt)
  • thinking of getting a LOR from my startup mentor in this fellowship I’m doing this fall

Schools

  • umass amherst (ea)
  • fordham (ea)
  • boston university (rd)
  • uchicago (rd)
  • wellesley (rd)
  • pomona (rd)
  • claremont mckenna (rd)
  • emory (rd)
  • barnard (rd)
  • nyu (rd)
  • stanford (rd)
  • harvard (rd)
  • cornell (rd)
  • upenn (rd)
  • georgetown (idk heard their aid sucks)
2

With a $200,000/year household income (presumably before taxes) your family is not likely to be able to afford to spend something around about $90,000 per year to send one student to school unless someone has a LOT of savings to cover this. Also, for a business / econ / finance major a master’s degree is a real possibility and could add additional expense.

You need to figure out what your budget is, and what your budget is without taking on debt. Then you need to be very cautious about taking on debt, particularly any debt beyond the federally subsidized limit. You are likely to want to run some NPCs and see what various schools are likely to cost.

Regarding Cornell versus U.Penn, there are two things to think about: Which school do you like and where would you be more comfortable? Have you or your parents run the NPC and are you all okay with the result? They are both excellent universities with excellent business programs. Cornell of course will have colder winters and more snow, but the location is IMHO beautiful (and someone else will mostly shovel the snow at least while you are a student). If you get into either ED, then are you okay with not having a chance to see if you get into Harvard or Stanford?

Applying to NYU and BU in the RD round means that you can see what sort of offers you receive before you decide whether to go to either.

Personally I would mention the piano. This shows that you did make a commitment for a long time and did very well with significant accomplishments. It is entirely common for people to love music, play for a while, and then take time off from it (music is a very tough way to make a living). I did. Got back to it after years, and then stopped again when my fingers complained. I know someone else who similarly quit music part way through high school and a number of years later earned her DVM. Both doing well at music and earning a university degree or two or three takes a lot of time and ability and concentrated effort.

Given your excellent stats, excellent ECs, and being in-state, I would expect U.Mass to be a safety and a very good one. I do not know Fordham much but from what little I know it looks very likely (perhaps a safety) and merit aid is possible. With both of these in the EA round at least to me it looks like you are quite likely to have an acceptance or two to a very good affordable university early in the process. Then you get to wait and see what other offers you will get and then figure out where you will actually attend.

Let’s suppose that you get into U.Mass, Fordham, and one of your reach schools, let’s say Stanford or Harvard. You do not need to attend a famous university just because you get into it. Highly ranked schools such as Stanford and Harvard are great schools for some academically strong students who want to work very hard, but they are not a great fit for all academically strong students. You can get a very good education at any of these schools. Look for a school that is a good fit for you and that is affordable.

I think that you are doing very well. Make sure that any ED school is likely to be affordable, or just don’t apply ED anywhere, and you should be fine.

Edited to add: You are a very competitive applicant at any university. To me you look to be fully academically qualified to attend Stanford, Harvard, U.Penn, Cornell, or anywhere else. The vast majority of applicants to these highly ranked schools are similarly very academically well qualified. I do not think that we can chance you at these highly ranked schools other than to say that you too are well qualified. If you do get into particularly one of these four schools, expect that they will be full of students who are just as strong as you are. This is both a good thing and a challenge. Classes will get tough the day that you show up on campus. Make sure that this is what you want before you commit to any of them.

2 Likes
3

Have you run the Net Price Calculators?

Neither Cornell nor Penn has merit aid. So that’s step one.

These schools will be $400K over four years so if you’re not able to afford them, you cannot apply ED - plain and simple.

You say NYU and BU are bad for aid - not sure how much better, if at all, Cornell and Penn would be - so right there I’d say no to ED, forgetting your academics.

Here are the NPCs - your parents should fill out.

If the #s came back favorable and you decided to ED, you are talking about hugely urban vs. suburban…city vs. nature, etc. so I don’t think anyone can make that call for you although I suspect Cornell might be better odds.

As for your overall list - and I’m not an AO so it’s just guesses:

UMASS - safe

Fordham - safe

BU - maybe but it’s a reach, even with your stats in RD

Chicago - reach

Wellesley - reach but better than BU. Interesting choice whereas others are much larger.

Pomona - reach but being from MA will help.

Claremont McKenna - reach but being from MA will help.

Emory - reach but

Barnard - reach

NYU - reach but maybe

Stanford, Harvard, Cornell, UPenn, Gtown - none of these have merit aid. Add Barnard, Pomona to that.

What’s your budget - what are you able or willing to spend? Start there - but unless you’re ok with UMASS, you might need to update your list and include some less expensive schools - which we could provide once we know what you’re able to spend.

What’s your goal after school?

You can’t do anything without a budget and without running the NPC to compare to that budget. No matter how great the school, if you can’t pay for it, you shouldn’t waste your time applying.

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

3 Likes
4

Two schools which should be on your list of top business schools are Babson and Rice.

Babson has been teaching business for 100 years and they do it very well. It is not only a highly respected degree but a great learning experience. They are very good with financial aid. With a family income if $200,000, you could expect grants to bring tuition, room & board down to about $50,000, according to their website. Check the net price calculator to see your individual results.

Rice is a top 20 school on anyone’s list, the “Harvard of the South” according to one article. About 3 years ago they extended their highly respected graduate business school down into the undergraduate college. Because it’s such a recent development, most people don’t think of Rice for business. In addition, they are very good for financial aid. They have a program called the Rice Investment. If your family makes less than $200,000, youutimatically get charged only half tuition. Hopefully your family’s FAFSA income is $199,999. :wink:

1 Like
5

With Emory’s new Advantage Plus program, the OP would be tuition free if admitted. It seems like a perfect fit. Emory Advantage Plus | Emory University | Atlanta GA

1 Like
6

Maybe - maybe not.

I put the NPC for the four mentioned and others have income plans too - but note a few things:

  1. up to $200,000 in total assessed parent income and typical assets, based on calculations completed by the Office of Financial Aid.

True story - my kid got into a school (W&L) that at my income, 88% of people got $38K on average. We got none. I asked why - they said - I had more than typical assets. I asked - what’s that. They said 2 x income - hmmmmm - that wasn’t a lot of money. So these plans are a bit misleading.

  1. Emory just changed to need aware. There’s a reason.

  2. Only 41% of Emory students got need aid last year - so they’re not looking to give it. For lack of a better term, it’s a rich kid’s school - like Tufts and Wake Forest but not quite as bad. But my guess is, if they are spending big, it’s not on a near $200K family.

Of course OP can apply. I didn’t call out Emory (I don’t believe) other than to say it’s a reach - but new programs like this, in my opinion, are more marketing than realistic - especially when you combine it with changing from need blind to need aware.

In the end, the school published promise isn’t relevant in the sense - you still need a budget. If you can beat the budget, all the bestter.

I would hope that Emory has updated their NPC to show this - so they OP would know if assets disqualify them.

But given they noted Cornell, Penn and secondarily NYU and BU, I higllghted those.

Thanks

2 Likes
7

Since they are need aware now does that mean they can just not admit those students near the $200K mark and focus their resources on students with families earning less? Also, this is off topic but do you think that schools that are offering deals like Emory are trying to attract more middle class students who might have more conservative values? It’s just something that’s been in the back of my head that it might be more than it seems.

8

Interesting take.

I’m guessing (but don’t know) a lot of the federal funding things, CDC, etc. make need aware better for them. My guess is they don’t want to pay big - and free tuition is big - so I could be wrong. But maybe the person who qualifies for $15K in need is better than the one promised free tuition or even a full ride.

So I’d expect the % getting need (already low) to go down. On the flipside, I still think school’s want diversity - racial, socioeconomic - so if they can find DEI kids not under the guise of DEI - that’s where they will spend their money - just my thought.

So yes, to middle class (with $200K being so) and parents willing to strain their future (or their kids) over over spending for a big name - which so many do. The school’s don’t care if they wreck a family financially - they’re in business and all these schools are competing for revenues.

Conservative - I don’t think so - but perhaps - perhaps the thought is if the student body is shaped politically to the right, it will be easier for the future in dealing with conservative governments. Expression - on all sides - which makes college a place to learn and grow. I hope they aren’t thinking this way and I wouldn’t think they are, but in today’s world, you never know.

Thanks

1 Like
9

What’s the link between middle class and conservative values?

In my area (urban, northeast) “middle class” families tend to have a parent who is either a union member (teacher, healthcare worker, etc.) or “union adjacent” and they are often very progressive. They tend to work with a highly diverse group of colleagues (or patients, or students, or customers) and they are quite accepting of lots of differences.

The conservatives lean upper income. Either inherited wealth (and they want to keep every penny that great grandpa accumulated) or “self made”, and they’re happy living in a bubble, meeting other rich people at their club, having their kids attend prep schools with other rich people, not really knowing people who struggle except for their domestic staff or the landscaper who (they assume) knowingly hires undocumented workers but as long as they show up on time, they’ll look the other way.

1 Like
10

Please people, keep on topic. A discussion of the relationship between income and political or social views is an interesting topic, but not an answer to the OP’s question.

11

OP, you are well-qualified and a competitive candidate at the schools in your list (rather top heavy). To expand the semi-target/low reaches in your list, I suggest the addition of Baruch in the City University of New York system. It is ranked highly by the US News & World Report and WSJ, and seems to be more affordable than some of your list.

2 Likes
12

I am going to ignore costs, here, but definitely have parents do NPC and have a real convo. This is super important. Your stats can get you good merit in many places, but you will need to go down a bit in rankings.

Also, that is a LOT of schools, many with lots of essays, I would slim down list if I were you (and I am not:)

Wharton/Penn, Stanford, UChicago (especially RD), Harvard are like a lottery ticket. Feel free to get one. You may get into one of them (I do not think it is impossible at all), but unlikely (as it is for pretty much everyone except recruits). Most, not all, kids who apply are quite qualified.

My 2 cents:
Likely are UMass and Fordham (and both are great for your interests!).
Low reach: everything not mentioned yet:)
I think you have have decent shot (better than the published rates at least:) at BU/NYU/Emory/Barnard/Wellesley. I know less about Pomona/Claremont’s acceptance from MA area. I think the number of real work experiences is super helpful, and the cold calling startup experience too. I would be surprised if you don’t get into a couple.

13

Deleted as we have been warned to stay more on topcic