One more thing…
You say you “founded businesses and non-profits”. You are too young everywhere to be able to file the proper and legal paperwork for these. You would have needed an adult to do so.
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OP- you sound terrific. Any college would be lucky to have you.
A tip- the kind of schools you are shooting for consider themselves academic institutions first and foremost, and don’t like being categorized as Advanced Training Programs for the asset management industry. Wharton is a little less precious in this regard- after all, it is churning out grads who work in business by definition. But still- the top schools still consider academics, intellectual engagement, analytical rigor (both math and reading) and the advancement of knowledge to be part of their core mission.
What does this mean for you personally? Apply to places like Babson, Bentley with your current interests/EC’s and you will likely be a “walk on”. But your list of passions is starting to feel like the resume of a 25 year old working their way up the corporate ladder- not a kid who is still exploring history, literature, art, music, athletics, philanthropy, science, math, current events. You do NOT need multiple stock market competitions, multiple finance internships, so many finance research papers/crypto club, trading derivatives, etc. In your effort to look passionate and focused, you are already looking like a “gunner” or a corporate drone— and you 're just a sophomore!!!
My advice? Slow down. There are a few things that the top folks in finance share- and one of them is an intense intellectual curiosity. Part of it is because that’s who they are. But the practical piece of it is that’s why they are so good at what they do. They can connect the dots. They already know the differences between a developing market economy and a developing autocratic/planned economy which is how they’ve made money investing in country A and haven’t lost a boatload (billions) investing in country B. I won’t spoil the adventure for you by giving you the answers- that’s part of the fun. They’ve studied WW1 and WW2 and the differences between communism in the former Soviet Union and China, and why some countries in the former Eastern Bloc are on fire economically and some have GDP closer to that of African countries which have only recently emerged from Colonialism.
So slow down. Harvard doesn’t need or want a whiz kid who has been trading derivatives from the kitchen table who doesn’t seem to have enjoyed LEARNING in HS. What is college? More LEARNING. Educational institutions first and foremost.
Keep the EC’s that you really love (you really, really, really do not need to take business courses at Harvard and Columbia, I promise you, the world is not running out of DCF any time soon). Take the courses that really interest you, or have the best teacher in your HS. Focus on boxing if you love it, dump it if you don’t. Take out books from the library on the history of Colombia, Ethiopia, Hawaii and other coffee growing regions of the world since you are already knee deep into coffee. Become the best version of YOU, not what you think some hedge fund will be looking for in 10 years or so.
You’ve had really interesting experiences as an immigrant so you know that reinvention is something you can do. Now go reinvent yourself back into a regular HS student!!!
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While I agree it sounds super inflated, it kind of is what I’m doing; as the only intern at the firm, I do both “shadowing” and actual work. Simultaneously, almost all the employees are directly responsible for the actual trades in the end (not me) due to them being certified to do so. My role primarily focuses on providing the appropriate valuation models to them, which they themselves also happen to do, and they themselves also double-check. (thus, giving me work), and at the end of most meetings, they also happen to take my opinion as well. If I were running the firm, would I make the trade or not? What would I do more to ensure client profitability? etc. (though I’m not certified), In the end, though they themselves make a decision because they’re the ones responsible though sometimes my input has led to changes in the trade itself
You’re 15. You go to school. Stop.
And what you describe is not remotely close to assisting them. As you say, they’re already doing the work. You’re practicing.
Stop.
And when you published a paper. Where ? Is it in an established publication or self published ?
You didn’t start a coffee company. Your dad did. Again, you’re 15. I assume he funded, he’s running. You are a student.
These folks can see through your activities. You’ve done more in 15 years than 98% of human beings in life.
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Your participation in these discussions and access to proprietary client information (as an unpaid or “non employee”) is a violation of NASD confidentiality rules and a breach of the companies fiduciary responsibilities. If accurate the series 24 principals who are allowing these activities are subject to professional censure.
Good luck getting them to confirm your claims even if accurate.
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Currently on the editing process for the International Journal of High School Research on a paper I’ve been working with a friend under the guidance of a professor, titled “Assessing Market Dynamics: An Investigation into the Short-Term Impact of Overreaction and Exaggeration on Stock Values in Response to Negative Events” I co-founded the coffee company with my dad, we already had an estate and all required sources and started it. Just cause you don’t believe me, it doesn’t mean it’s untrue. Plus, this is nothing compared to people who I know who’ve gotten into MIT by interning at ministries of economics for literal countries via rigorous interview levels and are from the same background as me
Not sure but i’ve just stated all I’ve done, not sure what more to say
For legal work, obviously, but me and my friends co-founded and run the NGO, not sure what more to say
These are not matches for anyone, anymore.
I won’t comment on all the starting businesses and working with investment managers stuff which has been covered extensively.
re: courses.
If you really want top finance programs you almost certainly need AP Calc BC (if offered at your school) or at least a year of Calculus, which I am sure is offered at your school if they have all those APs. Stats instead of Calc could be a huge ding against you given your interest.
I will reiterate top schools want kids with a high degree of intellectual curiosity and ability to explore new areas - make connections between topics and have a high degree of creativity and collaboration. They also see right through kids checking boxes. They don’t want a staff member, they want a student.
Also, not sure if you need FA, maybe not, but being an international student adds complexity to that.
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Hmm, I’ve been having a bit of trouble with what colleges to choose; my friends gave the suggestions I listed with regard to my stats and ECs; what colleges would you suggest?
My school does offer Calc, but a lot of people (including my dad, who did his masters in math) stated I’d use stat more in my field as compared to calc
Wharton says…
In applicants to the Wharton School, we would like to see:
- An interest in business to fuel positive change to advance the world’s economic and social well-being
- Demonstrated leadership
- Strong preparation in mathematics, particularly calculus
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Your dad may be right in real life (I don’t know - it’s not my field) - but yeah, for a school like Wharton and Harvard, and other tops, they want rigor. Stats isn’t rigor. Calc is.
Right on the Wharton website it states the following - so you’re early - but in planning for Wharton, you want rigor (which you have) but you want quant - and that’s where calc comes in.
We would like to see:
- an interest in business to fuel positive change to advance the world’s economic and social well-being
- demonstrated leadership
- Strong preparation in mathematics, particularly calculus
PS - there is no trouble with choosing colleges. You are a 10th grader. You are a year too early.
When it comes time, you’ll figure out - what do I want in a school. You simply chose big names - with no regard to anything else - and that’s not an effective method.
But you are way too early. You should be a 15 year old, not a 35 year old!!!
And come back in a year.
You also need your budget situation. It sounds like budget won’t be an issue given your businesses and contacts - as long as mom/dad are ok with spending $360K-$400K - better find out up front.
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Curious- why did you post asking for advice? If you’ve already done everything you’ve stated you’ve done, and you STILL have a few more years of HS to go- you clearly don’t need help from a bunch of strangers on the internet!
FYI- you’ve got experienced leaders in the Financial sector reading and responding to your posts- if you weren’t so quick to type “Not sure what more to say” you could learn something helpful here.
Me? I’ve just seen finance wannabees crash and burn with an overly optimistic application list when they learn the hard way that Harvard is NOT “summer camp for kids who want to work at Jane Street” and that Wharton is NOT “the place you go before you land at Citadel”.
At a certain point, the pre-professional EC’s and the amount of money a HS kid has made trading derivatives becomes a negative to an Adcom at Harvard, Penn and the like. I’m going to take your posts at face value and assume that in fact, the professionals at an asset management firm actually take advice from a non-licensed HS kid when it comes to portfolio management and balancing assets. (may be dumb for them to do so, but it’s not my money).
But that doesn’t change reality- MORE pre-professional “gunning for Goldman” EC’s start to work against you. And taking college finance classes before you’ve actually learned what HS is there to teach you means you may have the technical skills (what is the numerator, what’s the denominator) before you have enough academic knowledge to apply those skills in any way approaching sophistication.
You could teach a fourth grader valuation. That doesn’t mean that an M&A team wants input from said fourth grader as to whether a projected acquisition by their client is a good idea or a dumb idea. The fourth grader doesn’t know history. The fourth grader doesn’t understand global political movements. The fourth grader doesn’t know the difference between a cyclical economic downturn and a Black Swan event, simply because you can’t teach this stuff to someone who hasn’t learned about the Civil War or the Spanish flu or WW2 or the Depression or the Cultural Revolution.
You really want to excel in a financial career? Stop doing finance, and start learning history. What did Leonardo Da Vinci know that Elon Musk hasn’t figured out yet?
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Choosing good target/match schools can be a lot of fun as, if done right, it is a very personal process. What really excites you about a possible college experience? Small college with small classes and quickly working with the top professors in a department? Big college with big parties and sports and possibly grad classes? Competing for merit? Interdisciplinary opportunities? Robust study abroad? Robust support for internships? More academicky/nerdy? More pre-professional/work-hard/play-hard? Proximity to urban activities? Outdoor activities? Greek life, or no? And on and on.
A lot of kids your young age understandably do not really know for sure what they like or how to prioritize different things (indeed, I would not trust feeling that you do). So, people visit a sampling, get some ideas of what they like or don’t like, visit some more, refine again, and so on.
In the end, you should have a list of target/matches that are all exciting to you for specific reasons that coincide with your learned preferences.
But getting to there from here requires patiently working through a process of discovery, both about the colleges and about yourself.
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What is useful the real world has little bearing in this:) and you 100% will need to take stats in college, given all your interests. And I would bet $$ none of the people telling you to take stats are college counselors looking at highly selective schools.
Many kids will be beyond BC Calc, in practice.
FWIW I went to an ivy ages ago. Pretty much everyone had taken calculus, even then. The ones that hadn’t were super arty or something.
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you had MIT on your list: “math through calculus”
note everyone i know that has gone to MIT had beyond calc BC and in most cases WAY beyond.
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OP, All business schools look for calc on your transcript. Trust what everyone is telling you here. Penn State Smeal notified applicants that they were not eligible to apply because they were missing calc.
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Even at Wesleyan - not known as hard-core STEM school
https://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/apply/class-profile.html
85% of admitted students had taken calculus. Assume the other 15% wanted to do studio art or were in schools that didn’t offer calc.
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Op- again, your pre-professional/utilitarian approach to your HS experience is showing.
You likely won’t ever use trigonometry. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s part of the pre-college curriculum everywhere. You won’t need to “use” Anna Karenina in your grown up life but there is a reason why it’s considered a literary masterpiece.
Stats is “useful” in virtually every field. Or even just reading the newspaper and understanding why vaccines are recommended for certain people but not others, or why some people don’t get chemo and live, and others HAVE chemo AND radiation and don’t survive a similar cancer.
But calculus is still considered part of a rigorous HS curriculum (if your HS offers it). And if Econ is a maybe for you- you will definitely “need” calc. Your dad may not have ever taken an advanced econ class, but you can show him the course catalogue for Econ majors and you can learn together why calc is important.
Some general friendly advice- the course catalogue of any college you are remotely interested in is MUCH more reliable than your HS friends or even your dad. If a college says that a particular course is a pre-requisite, you can take that to the bank.
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Ok…I’ll give you some free advice to consider in two years when you will actually know more about your HS performance than what you know now.
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If you remain in the top 6% of students in your HS graduation class, your absolute sure thing should be UT Austin. It’s a very strong flagship university.
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If you remain a strong student (and yes, that includes calculus), you could consider Southern Methodist University as a match for finance. Note…not a safety…a match.
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