<p>To the extent that they are stuck attending “traditional” high schools… I do.</p>
<p>We can’t change that… but lets not encourage the kids like Jags & Lucifer in their negative stereotypes and labeling.</p>
<p>My school is very grade segregated, which I think is a shame. (I, a junior, was stuck for months with a crush on a senior–and couldn’t do anything about it. :o) There are two relationships between a junior and a sophomore that I know of, and they are generally frowned upon. I genuinely lament that.</p>
<p>That said, I still think that in a high school romance, a four-year age difference is excessive. It’s the same as if my little sister, an eighth grader, thirteen years old, went on a date with a guy in my grade. I could never be comfortable with that.</p>
<p>Why? A loser (in social context), is, by definition, someone who doesn’t have a lot of friends/respect. Someone who can’t get a date in their own grade or the grade below is almost assuredly a loser (or horribly and irreperably disfigured/ugly).</p>
<p>Somemom brought up a good point regarding grade level vs. age, as well. The difference between a freshman and a senior is usually three years (14 and 17). Well, my small senior class has a three year age difference (16, me to 19). There is no difference in maturity not found in kids the same age. </p>
<p>The ages do not really concern me at all. Although I think that this should be evaluated case by case, the thing that does throw me off is the grade difference. They are separate issues.</p>
<p>-student</p>
<p>Lucifer, you are assuming that someone who chooses not to get a date you approve of “can’t” get a date. You don’t understand the concept of choice.</p>
<p>Thisyearsgirl - I’m sorry that you are stuck at your high school. You are assuming that a date to the prom equates to “romance” – as opposed to merely a date. Perhaps it is the rigid construct of your high school that leads to that view. As an adult female with years of dating experience, I can assure you that more often than not, it doesn’t work that way. In the world of romantic entanglement, the question generally is whether you ever get to the point of a third date. </p>
<p>I’ll excuse you both because of your obvious immaturity… but I won’t encourage that kind of thinking.</p>
<p>It’s all about maturity level. As a senior, I can say that I know a LARGE number of sophomore/junior boys who are much more experienced (and would be more likely to take advantage of girls!) than seniors. That being said, it is always a little sketchy when a senior boy wants to kick it with a freshman girl.</p>
<p>I dated a senior boy when I was a freshman. Sure, he probably wasn’t looking at me as someone with marriage potential, but nothing horrible came out of it. We went to homecoming together, hung out every weekend, were left alone, etc. Truthfully, he was probably one of the most upstanding boys I’ve dated- never physically threatening, didn’t take advantage of me, never tried to keep me out past curfew/do anything i wasn’t allowed to do.</p>
<p>It all depends on how mature the girl is compared to the senior suitor. That said, I probably wouldn’t let it fly if it was my kid. But I’m not the mother :)</p>
<p>calmom,</p>
<p>I’m sure your comment about “obvious immaturity” wasn’t meant to be offensive… but it certainly comes across that way. I would not be comfortable with my little sister going anywhere, or doing anything, with a guy my age. To me, that’s what it comes down to. Do you think that’s immature?</p>
<p>ETA: Maybe I should clarify: I’d never approve of it, but I’d never forbid it either. To each her own.</p>
<p>thisyearsgirl, I didn’t mean immaturity as an insult but as a reflection of the fact that you are age 16 posting in the “Parent Cafe” … from where I am, I see all teenagers as being immature. </p>
<p>The only part of your post that struck me was simply the fact that you equated the issue of a first time prom date with “romance” – I am sure that many kids do see prom night as being occasion for romance and would think that the ideal prom date is between a male & a female student who are potentially romantically involved with one another… but now that I’ve weathered quite a few, I see that is not the norm. Most kids do want to go to their prom, and most do not want to go alone – but an escort to a formal event is a far cry from the they typical situations that lead to romance and/or sex among teens. Most prom “dates” are among friends, not dating partners. </p>
<p>All we know from the OP’s post is that the senior boy does not have a steady girl friend – if he did, then of course he would ask her. It’s as likely as not that he deliberately wants to take a girl who will NOT have romantic expectations to the prom – why risk a misunderstanding when all he’s looking for is companionship for the evening, when he can take a friend’s kid sister and just relax and have fun?</p>
<p>I lived in a small town where the high school had grades 8-12 in one building. (I don’t think it was always that way, but they had to move students around due to lack of space in lower grades). Every year people were “shocked” (shocked!) to hear how many 8th grade girls were pregnant–one year 20% of the class! And who do you think the fathers of those babies were? (Hint–it wasn’t the 8th or 9th grade boys. Makes me think of the old song “Little Sister”) Younger girls have a harder time saying no to older guys, and a lot of guys take advantage of that. Yes, some 12th grade boys are perfectly nice and respectful–and I’m willing to let someone else’s 9th grade daughter figure out who they are.</p>
<p>calmom, I can understand that. I guess it’s a sore spot for me. </p>
<p>I used the word “romance” somewhat sarcastically–like I said, I think three years in high school is too much of an age difference, even for one date, even for “companionship”. I just don’t see what either party could get out of it. </p>
<p>YMMV.</p>
<p>age and maturity are certainly linked but not in any standardized way. in high school i dated a few girls 3 plus years older. i do think going to 8th grade is too far though, a line has to be drawn somewhere. sure some 9th graders are too immature for a relationship with some 12th graders, but there are plenty of 12th graders who are more immature than some 9th graders. im not sure what is more dangerous- a immature freshman, or an immature senior.
3 or 4 years is not too large a gap. yes, the acceptable age ranges do increase as you age but it has to start increasing at some point.
my sister started dating a guy when she was 16, he was 22. now they are married and she is a doctor. so you never know how its going to work out. the last person i dated was 13 years my senior, so i highly doubt the chance of disaster is that much higher for a ninth and twelfth grader than an eleventh and twelfth.</p>
<p>to each his own - but seriously, its really sketchy to date a freshman as a senior. I surprised more people arn’t creeped out by it. Why an 18 year old would want to date a 14 year old is beyond me. </p>
<p>As a 20 year old 2nd year in college, I think I’d have a hard time dating a girl whose not atleast a senior in high school.</p>
<p>I guess the main difference is is that in high school, what (the majority) of freshman and (to a lesser extent) sophomores do for fun is completely different from what juniors and seniors do. It’s a completely different social circle. I’d say it mostly stems from getting a drivers liscense, as a world of opportunities opens up when you can drive. Not having to rely on your parents for your social life is huge.</p>
<p>At college and beyond however, theres no real defining moment in ones social life. (sans turning 21…and most people in college who party I would venture to say have fakes - or go somewhere where they don’t even need one). A 4th year dating a 1st year, isn’t as big of a shock.</p>
<p>Anywho, I guess my criteria for dating is being in the same social circle. Otherwise, its hard for people to relate. Of course there are always exceptions to every rule.</p>
<p>Calmom, there are few to no freshman who are suitable matches emotionally/socially for seniors. In my four years at a HS of 1000+ students, I never heard of a senior dating a freshman because of chioce. Simlarly, I’ve never heard of such things happening at any other HS’s I know of. Odds are VASTLY in favor of the senior in question being a loser/thinking the freshman is attractive. </p>
<p>I will agree that most prom dates aren’t between boyfriends and girlfriends. You are, however, deluding yourself if you think that most prom couples don’t expect to hook up. Unless a date is explicity “friends only” or one couple member isn’t explicity opposed to hoooking up, then most couples WILL hook up on prom night. </p>
<p>Is it POSSIBLE that a senior asks a freshman because he genuinely likes her? Yes. How likely is it? Not very.</p>
<p>Senior boys are/ should be thinking about college, going out into the world, being major, dating, whatever that means, a girl 3-4 years younger, to me is strange, I mean, if the boy is mature, which is what we expect from a senior boy, what can he see in a Frosh girl, one of which I have</p>
<p>I would have serious doubts about a MAN who is interested in a 14 year old, when I see my Ds friends and think of a MAN who is either going off to college, thinking of joining the army, or getting fulltime work, I wonder what is going on that the best they can do is a barely teen.</p>
<p>I say NO no matter how wonderful he is, cause if he is that great and special, he should be able to find a girl his own age or closer to it, if he can’t then there is something wrong</p>
<p>And don’t talk about, oh, its just a few year, its a HUGE difference in the teens, 14 year old girls often will use bad judgement in order to impress</p>
<p>To me, any senior who can only get a freshman girl as a girlfriend or as a date has issues</p>
<p>Sorry, but that is how a mother of a frosh and junior feels</p>
<p>And according to my Junior D, guys that date fresh girls are seen as losers, players, or pathetic, no matter what the girl is like, cause they have either gone through girls their age or girls their age will have nothing to do with them</p>
<p>At my Ds school, no underclassman can go to the proms, period, for many reason, one is the “expectations”</p>
<p>Again, I wonder about an 18 year that can only find girlfriends that are so much younger
And, to bed sure, girls that are 14 that go out with 18 year old, no matter how chaste, etc, will get a reputation</p>
<p>Someone said something about a 14 year and an 18 year old having the same maturity levels possibly and it could be a good match.</p>
<p>I am sorry, but any boy that is 18 and has the maturity level of a 14 year old would worry me, think about it, an 18 year old that hasn’t matured and grown through highschool? Egad, if that is where they are at, it is no wonder no girls their age are interested and they have to go find frosh girls who may not know any better and are impressed</p>
<p>Again, my older D, a Jr, says that SRs that go after frosh girls are not seen as anyone Jr or Sr girls have any interest in and are kind of “icky” and “scuzzy”</p>
<p>And before anyone slams me, this is what girls think about boys who have no other choices because they have such bad reps</p>
<p>So the boy is seen favorably by the brother, I have to tell you, most brothers of younger sisters would die before their little sister went out with a classmate, so I find that comment strange</p>
<p>I have a friend who’s son who watches out for his two year younger sister, and any guy his age or older would be taken to the wood shed for even thinking of dating his little sis, and the little sis likes his watching our for her</p>
<p>Seriouslly, I have asked around, most older brothers think is “creepy” that one of their classmates would even think of dating their sisters, cause those guys that are interested, according to my friends boys, are most often jsut interested in one thing.</p>
<p>And all you girls that say, no that is not true, well, you are rare </p>
<p>And any 22 year old that can only get a 17 year old has issues, sorry, but they do, no matter what you think, they have issues, maturity problems and lack of judgement</p>
<p>If they don’t realize that a 17 year is not an adult, then self control and judgement aren’t there</p>
<p>Lucifer, as I noted before, you obviously go to a very different high school than the schools that my kids attended. I know that there are some schools that are very grade-segregated - my daughter had friends attending the local, large public high school who were very unhappy as freshman because of that cliquish and somewhat toxic environment. I say “toxic” to also refer to the type of place where kids are branded as “losers” based on who they date… or probably based on what clothes they wear or who they befriend as well. </p>
<p>My kids went to smaller magnet schools which did a really good job of weeding out the jocks/cheerleader and “mean girls” set of kids - so they didn’t deal with that garbage. They knew and socialized with kids in different grades. My son took two really overweight girls to his senior prom. I’m sure that there are idiots in this world who would deem him a “loser” because his dates weren’t svelte … and of course the 2nd girl would be deemed a “loser” because she couldn’t get her own private date and instead had to tag along with another couple. But the girls were my son’s friends, and they all had a great and memorable prom night.</p>
<p>My daughter has attended her school’s prom every year since she was a freshman, and as I noted - the only way she could get in was by going with a junior or senior. The junior boy who took her to the prom was her best friend then, and is still a very close friend. Last year, the same kid took ME on a “date” (they had theater tickets but and my daughter had a last minute conflict and suggested that I could go instead). We had a great time, though I am sure that kids at your high school would think that he must be a terrible “loser” to go out with somebody’s mom. </p>
<p>The dates I described did not involve romance or or sexual relationships - they were just about friends wanting to share an experience. My daughter went to the prom one year with another girl. (Another sure fire “loser” thing in your circle, I am sure). She and her friend planned to go months in advance – so it certainly wasn’t a matter of anyone being able to get a date --neither one was interested in that. </p>
<p>Here is the thing: as far as I am concerned, the only “losers” in this world are people who label other as “losers”.</p>
<p>Calmom speaks wisely</p>
<p>My reservation is that D and this sr. boy are not friends, just acquaintances. I cannot tell if she’s spoken to him at school a lot, or just a few minutes. She might think its fun to get dressed up and go to a dance, but not knowing anyone but her brother could be awkward. A prom, just like a kiss or sex, is sweeter when done with a close ‘friend’.</p>
<p>My school wasn’t that grade segregated - many, if not most, people dated between grades. However, I simply cannot understand what a senior would see in a freshman - I had a highschool of 1000, and as an older friend of my so eloquently said, “there are about 2 freshman cool enough to hang out with older kids.” The difference between even freshman and sophomore is immense - much less freshman and senior. I personally hang out with kids 2 grades below me and 3 grades above - along with everything in between.</p>
<p>Also, what defines someone as a loser is what they CAN do, not what they ACTUALLY do. A cool kid who stays in on a given night isn’t a loser - rather, he just decided to stay in. A loser would be someone who stays in every night simply because they have nowhere to go (obviously, if they stay in because they are doing something/etc, it is a different story). Saying that kids who don’t get attractive dates/don’t go out/etc. are losers is wrong. Saying that kids who CAN’T do all of the above (and who also lack any other redeeming quality or characteristic) probably isn’t.</p>
<p>Would you have similar problems with a soph. (15) and sr (18)?</p>