Dartmouth [$47k] vs Georgetown [$53k] vs William & Mary [~$25k, 1693 Scholars] for History, IR, and possibly Pre-Law

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I was lucky enough to get into these 3 incredible schools, but now I’m struggling to choose between them and would appreciate any insight/advice. All 3 are affordable for my family (except maybe Georgetown, which would require some small loans), however I am considering law school in the future so cost can be a factor.

Dartmouth
PROS:

  • From what I’ve heard, the community is (mostly) right up my alley: Supportive/uncompetitive but still hardworking, outdoorsy, nice students, undergrad focused etc.
  • D-plan would allow me to pursue good internships during my off term
  • Very active/enthusiastic alumni network that could be good for connections. I’m still in contact with my alumni interviewer and other alumni in my community have all been very eager to connect with me

CONS:

  • The biggest con is definitely the emphasis on greek life. I’m not into drinking/partying so I worry that it may be awkward for me to socialize without that
  • I’m also a fairly introverted person and Dartmouth seems like a very extroverted school, not sure how that would work out for me
  • Dartmouth is pretty far from home but I’m less concerned about that
  • Winters in Hanover :cold_face: I actually like snow but I’ve never experienced a true northeast winter
  • Quarter system workload/pace seems like it could be overwhelming (does anyone have any experience with this?)

Georgetown
PROS:

  • Location in DC is great for internships that align with my interests and the school seems to be very good with helping student find opportunities
  • Much closer to home and transportation would be easy
  • Excellent for IR if I decide to go in that direction

CONS:

  • I’ve heard that it has a competitive/pre-professional environment, which I’m not interested in at all
  • I’ve also heard bad things about dorms/food, but apparently it’s getting better, which is good
  • Not sure how I’d enjoy living in a city. I’ve visited DC many times and always enjoy it, but living there is of course another thing all together
  • It’s the most expensive option which does sort of take it out of the running, but Gtown was the closest thing I’ve ever had to a dream school so I’m not quite ready to give it up :sweat_smile:

W&M
PROS:

  • 1693 Scholars + Monroe Scholars, which come with great perks (priority class registration, brand new honors housing as a freshman, mentorship, good research funding etc). Although I feel like if I decide on law school, research will be less important
  • Also closer to home, so transportation will be easy
  • There are so many opportunities for research, I couldn’t keep track of them all during my visit. Plus according to current scholars, the 1693 designation basically ensures that I get whatever position I want because the program is so respected on campus

CONS:

  • Housing seems to get a bit tricky after sophomore year and the off-campus market is not great
  • When I visited and asked about the food, current students gave me the impression that it’s really really bad. Nobody said anything outright but it was very obvious lol
  • I felt like I didn’t really fit in with the student body when I visited
  • I kind of got the sense that undergrad research is the main opportunity available on campus. Maybe they just wanted to emphasize that the most, but I didn’t hear much about support for finding internships, pre-professional advising, etc.
  • Still having to pay almost $25k even with the 1693 scholarship

Sorry for a bit of a long post but please let me know your thoughts!

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For WM, congratualtions on the 1693! You are with an elite group for sure.

My son is there now. The food is certainly not classified as really bad by him. They have a new food provider there this year and the food has been fine. The only complaint mine has is that some things are repetitive.

You may have noticed all the new construction. Some is new dorm space that will be open for the 2025 year with more to come. That will greatly alleviate the housing issues that WM currently has. There are off campus options that are close and houses that students rent as well.

WM is the number one ranked public school for internships.

The cost for you is fabulous and will allow your parents to free up funds for law school if that’s what you choose. My son has a friend who gave up Harvard for the 1693. She has been loving her time at WM.

Fit is important, but my guess is you will find your people on any campus.

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Fit and budget are important, especially if you are planning law school…

So Gtown is too expensive; Dartmouth is too Greek and nearly as expensive (and depending on where you are, harder to get to).

Honestly, where you go undergrad (forgetting these three) will not eliminate you from any top law school. It’s why Harvard has 147 schools represented in its first year class, Yale 169 in its last 5 years, UVA - tons of schools as well - and I’m talking Canisius, Fairleigh Dickinson, Youngstown State, U of you name it - Alabama, Arkansas, Iowa, etc.

So I’d eliminate law school from the equation - because the where won’t matter for it but at the same time, one should plan for grad school from certain majors so money does matter.

The 1693 is amazing- W&M in of itself is amazing but with the extra funding and enrichment - it’s strong. Room and Board is covered in years 3-4 if I’m not mistaken - so not sure the concern about housing. You are basically having to pay the out of state delta in tuition.

So - where did you feel best on campus? It sounds like Gtown - but let me tell you, you can get internships from any school (my kid is at a pure safety and working at a think tank during a semester in DC) .

W&M has a DC program - so you can do the same.

And you mention W&M food - you must not have spoke to Gtown students and parents - their food is universally panned - unless it’s changed with many parents on here talking about over spending due to eating out all the time.

And other families have noted like @lkbtnc said they have a new vendor.

But I’m not sure it was a con vs. Gtown b4.

Up to you where to go but seems to me the W&M offer (and yes in part that you have need and this will help your family) is too good to pass up. It will give you opportunities and funding that the others may not deliver on.

And while Georgetown seems the one in your heart, you’ll save half the money + and can always go to grad school there (or another DC school).

D.C. Semester Program | William & Mary (wm.edu)

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Thanks for your response! It’s good to hear that the food isn’t as bad as some of the students were making it seem. When I asked, it was a lot of stifled laughs so it gave me a bad impression lol.

Current students told me that off-campus housing is overpriced for the quality and that a lot of the landlords are difficult, so that’s why I was a bit apprehensive about it. Of course that’s always a bridge I can cross in a few years.

For now 1693 is at the top of my list. I’m visiting Dartmouth next Monday so hopefully the choice will become more clear after that.

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First of all, congratulations on your terrific acceptances! No wonder you are having trouble deciding…Other posters have done a great job of giving information, I hope I can add a little about the vibe at W&M since I’m an alumna who has one daughter who graduated in '23 and one who is there now.

As introvert who isn’t into drinking/partying, I think you would be surrounded by similar personalities at W&M. Binge drinking is not dominant or even prevalent on campus, and there are no real bars in Williamsburg. My daughters have many friends who don’t drink at all, yet are as busy as they want to be with social activities—clubs, teams, events, volunteering, hobbies, multicultural organizations, etc. My daughter who has graduated was a trip leader with the Tribe Adventure Program (TAP), backpacking, canoeing, beach camping, etc. The TAP kids hang out with the rock-climbing club and Ultimate frisbee, and it’s a great group who are always doing something much more interesting than drinking/partying. This daughter also volunteered with a ranch that provides horseback riding to kids with disabilities, and studied Global Health in Geneva for winter term.

My second W&M daughter did not have the nicest friends in high school, and because she wouldn’t go out partying during Covid, she was often a bit lonely. College has been great for her socially. She meets so many people like her—kids who care a lot about their education, but also want a supportive group of friends to enjoy life with. She and her close friends go to all each others events from bluegrass concerts to acapella to mock mehndi. They go to the farmer’s market, cook dinner together, plan their (very creative) joint Halloween costumes, and proof-read each other’s papers. They even helped my math-challenged daughter get through Statistics.

I know you said you felt like you didn’t fit in with the student body when you visited. Could you elaborate? Or message me if you’d like to talk to either of my daughters about what it’s really like. One great thing is they haven’t had any trouble getting involved in whatever they set their sights on. We have heard that at Georgetown, students often have to interview or audition for scarce spots in clubs and orgs. Another thing about the atmosphere at W&M is that as a public school, it does not have an exclusive vibe. There are a lot of kids who live frugally, have jobs, and have a sense of gratitude that they are lucky enough to be there. It is not considered cool to flaunt expensive things, talk about second homes, or generally be elitist. My daughters like that.

I imagine that it’s very hard to turn away from Georgetown as it was close to a dream school for you. We did visit, but the atmosphere there felt too preppy and serious for my daughters. They thought it might be too much like their very competitive, very wealthy high school.

I hope those thoughts are helpful, and feel free to message me if you’d like to talk to a student. You mentioned on another thread that you might be interested in a history major, and that’s my junior daughter’s major, an excellent department at W&M. Also, maybe it would be worth a second visit to one, two, or all three schools?

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I think it’s safe to say that Gtown is crossed off my list, it just doesn’t make any financial sense with the other options I have. I have heard that Gtown’s food and dorms were bad but every student I’ve talked to said they had improved drastically since covid.

I know that undergrad doesn’t really matter for law school, but I was under the impression that it does matter for other grad programs. Unless I’m wrong?

I’m visiting Dartmouth in just under a week so I’ll see how I feel about the community after that. Fit is very important to me and that’s the main reason I’m hesitant to commit to WM. But I also know it’s a great opportunity so I’m trying to keep an open mind.

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Smart to look at fit.

Three great choices.

Hopefully Hanover draws you in or spits you out.

Either way gets you to where you need to be!!

Good luck on the trip.

You really have an embarrassment of riches here.

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Fraternities are popular at Dartmouth, but so are outdoor activities. Can you see yourself getting involved in activities like hiking, canoeing, skating, and skiing? You might connect with the Dartmouth Outing Club during your visit.

While you are on campus, I recommend seeing Baker library, especially the mural by Orozco and the tower room.

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Any student who isn’t a freshman endured the bad dining years and may have a few bad memories. I went to WM in the 80s, and we were excited to get green bagels for St. Pats and our coupons for the occasional steak night. I wouldn’t let any food concerns deter you from WM.

You will find a lot of very interesting, involved students at WM. My son, who doesn’t get excited about much, is having a great time. He’s as busy he wants to be, isn’t a member of a fraternity or interested in a party scene. As is said, you will find your tribe.

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Wow thank you for this response! There’s a lot of good insight here. It definitely makes me feel better about WM.

When I say I feel like I didn’t fit in, I mainly just mean with the 1693 Scholars in my cohort. I really liked the older/current scholars but didn’t click with the other finalists. The campus in general definitely seemed more laidback and less preppy than Gtown, which I like.

I’ll try to visit WM again in the next few weeks for sure, but I’m visiting Gtown for the 2nd time this Friday and Dartmouth on Monday. I might actually take you up on your offer to talk to your kids, so thank you!

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I feel like Dartmouth will take care of it’s self on your list after you visit. Meaning I have not met a kid that said Dartmouth is OK. It is usually all in or the kid my kids admit student event year that didn’t want to get out of the car. There is something to be said about that small LAC college experience. That said I might lean toward W & M for all the perks of 1693. Also remember your fellow finalist are trying to size each other up and compete for an amazing scholarship so they may be great kids when not in this situation.

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Definitely! I love hiking, canoeing/kayaking, riding bikes, and I would probably learn how to ski or snowboard if I end up at Dartmouth. One of the reasons I like the school so much is because I’ll be surrounded by people who like outdoorsy stuff, which many of my high school friends aren’t into at all.

I’ll be sure to check out these places you suggested during my visit!

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That makes sense since the finalists would be a small group who might not choose W&M in the end. I hope your visits go very well at Georgetown and Dartmouth. I love the hiking and climbing in New Hampshire, and Dartmouth’s campus is classic. I hope you can get a sense for where you would most easily find your people and feel at home!

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I’d encourage another visit to W&M outside of the 1693 cohort. It’s a really special community.

Also - this is from last year, but I think I heard W&M topped it again - W&M tops national ranking for internships 3 years in a row – W&M News

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Off hand W&M with 1693 and Monroe seems like a great fit for you. People will assume you turned down more selective overall colleges for those (which you would have), and I think you would get a lot out of those programs.

I also think W&M is a very strong choice for History and IR specifically. Those are two very strong departments, and W&M acts as a sort of “Greater DC” school such that it is very well-networked for DC internships and jobs. Georgetown too, of course, but I agree with 1693, the much lower cost, and just the vibe you seem to want, W&M is the better choice.

Dartmouth of course is excellent too (although actually in your areas I would more just think of them as a peer of W&M, and again I think people in the future will assume you were turning down colleges like Dartmouth for the 1693). But you’ll have to see how the vibe strikes you when visiting.

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Honestly, not sure it matters - my daughter had 5 paid offers for the Fall, all from indeed. 2 unpaid.

Think tank (where she worked), corporate lobbyists and more.

And most the kids in the program found internships - and on their own.

Perhaps because they could work full time vs. a student with a full course load - but DC really wasn’t that tough - for whatever reason.

I don’t dismiss W&M though - it’s clearly a wonderful school.

But I don’t think they have a leg up on internships vs. other schools - I think that part is overrated.

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I have never been to Dartmouth but I do have to say that when I think of it, the image that comes to mind is NOT introverted.

you mentioned being worried about the high cost of housing near W&M- this unfortunately is pretty much the case with housing and landlords near any college campus. they know you need them and they take advantage.

the W&M is a really good bargain and a small program like that will take care of you and make sure you get the internships you need.

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My son graduated from W& M four years ago and housing was much cheaper than we anticipated. W & M has a sight to help students find off campus housing and he had no trouble finding a group house with his own room, walkable to campus.

And if you get tired of the food, Merchant Square, a short walk from campus, has at least a dozen restaurants/cafes. Maybe the thousands you will save by attending W&M might result in a more generous food budget?:grinning:

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I feel like this will take care of itself when you visit the schools, because you will vibe with – feel most at home at – one of them.

All three are very good academically, so it’s all about vibe/setting/interests and cost, to me. You said they are all affordable, but that you don’t just have money to throw around. So if Dartmouth and Georgetown don’t just totally sweep you off your feet, and you cannot make up your mind – choose W&M. It holds the cost tiebreaker.

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I like this suggestion! Georgetown is already in last place because it’s the only option that would require loans, but if neither Gtown nor Dartmouth really feel right to me I’ll definitely go with the great deal at W&M.

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