<p>Are you paying for her college? Because even though she is 20 if you are paying for school that gives you some control. I agree that the behavior that she is exhibiting is very dangerous - alcohol poisioning can lead to death. Also, if she is drinking to the point of blackout she is putting herself in situations where she can not control what happens to her.</p>
<p>Outofmyleague, you are correct; I know nothing about what you and H are “cool” with - - beyond what you have posted. Your initial post stated, “We responded that we don’t care what she is as long as she is happy. Truth be told, I do hope this is just a phase and that she isn’t gay”</p>
<p>Hope-this-is-a-phase-and-she-is-not-gay sound like you’re not cool with her sexual preference. I’m not branding you a homophobe, but the second half of the quote is certainly contrary to the first. And while I understand your concern regrarding D’s issues, I’m not certain that, as post #75 suggests, there’s a causal relationship b/w her coming out and the dangerous behavior.</p>
<p>outofmyleague, I am the mother of a son who is gay. I was raised to believe, and believe myself, that being gay is just as normal being straight or bi or any other label that applies to consenting adults. </p>
<p>I think our children do pick up on our true feelings about things, they know us as well as we know them. Having said that, I don’t think your internal doubts are the cause of your daughter’s complicated issues. It would be good to get to a place of total acceptance, because that’s what our children truly need, but there are other areas of crisis in your daughters life right now.</p>
<p>For those who believe that the drinking and such should be completely separate from the issue of her daughter being gay, I simply do not believe that such a distinction can be made. While the OP’s daughter has received love and support from her parents, she lives in a society where actively hating her is not only acceptable, it’s become inscribed into state laws. It takes tremendous strength and courage to rise above the many who would say to you, “You may not have a civil marriage, you should not adopt children, you do not have the same rights to job protection” and so on. Because every one of those statements is just another way of saying, “you are worth less than if you were straight.” </p>
<p>It’s not a wonder to me that GLBTQ people would turn to things that numb pain, the wonder to me is that so many of them are able to cope without those things. </p>
<p>outofmyleague, I am sorry your daughter is in so much pain and I am sorry that you are as well. I hope that a peaceful way forward can be found for all of you. I apologize if I missed this but has your daughter been seen by a psychiatrist? Anxiety can be crippling enough that dealing with the issues themselves is nearly impossible. Sometimes medications makes therapy possible.</p>
<p>nyc, I personally don’t see any inherent contradiction in “being cool” and “hoping this is a phase and she is not gay”. I suspect many parents, myself included, would hold similar emotions…whether the announcement was related to one’s sexual identity, or dating someone out of one’s faith, or dating someone of a different ethnicity. We just want our kids to be happy and would like to shield them from some of the hatefulness that such situations may bring. It certainly doesn’t imply that we will be the source of this hatefulness, or that we will leave them without support and love if the hatefulness occurs. But the fact is that in a heteronormative society, prejudice, hate, and fear exist, and if I were in similar circumstances, it would be disingenuous to deny that I would have a passing wish for an easier path for my daughter. </p>
<p>Clearly you may have a different opinion, but I do think that the OPs pain is real and deep, and given the OPs acknowledgment of the complexity of the situation (particularly the extraordinary complexity for an unhealed survivor of sexual abuse), I would hope you can understand the swirling emotions: the confusion, the guilt, the anger, and the fear, and recognize that what you consider to be contradictory is actually the norm in a situation like this.</p>
<p>Edit: Just saw pugmadkate’s post after I typed this, so I’d like to add one more comment in response. While in general I agree with her comment, I think this thread has shown to me that there is a general lack of knowledge about the long-term effects of sexual abuse, the coping mechanisms often used by survivors, and the general sense our society communicates to survivors that if it happened long ago, it’s not that big of a deal. I would contend that this lack of knowledge and a societal distaste for acknowledging the full range of abuse and its effects is not helpful to survivors. It often delays the healing process, because survivors (who are, after all, survivors) think they are coping just fine. Coping, however, is not living life to its fullest, and we do a disservice to survivors to minimize the trauma that they have endured.</p>
<p>“Also, if she is drinking to the point of blackout she is putting herself in situations where she can not control what happens to her.”</p>
<p>Sadly, the blackout thing has become rather common at some schools. A survey at Duke of undergraduates found that more than 11% of students had an alcohol blackout in the previous year. I seriously doubt that it is more common among lesbian/gay students. </p>
<p>Last national suirvey (CDC) found that 24%+ of all American women were sexually attracted to other women. Some act on it, some don’t. Some consider themselves lesbians as a result, some a heteromarried. And people change over time.</p>
<p>Sadly, sexual abuse is very, very common.</p>
<p>OP, all my good wishes go with you. I understand completely as I have a pretty similar situation with my D, blackouts aside.
I think the anger is the major clue. Whether she is truly gay, just experimenting or desperately trying to find someone or something to make her feel better about herself doesn’t really matter. She is in pain and subconsciously blames her family for not protecting her. In D’s case, the self-destructive behavior seemed to stem from an double desire: on the one hand to hurt us and make us feel guilty, on the other to give us something we could see (as opposed to the emotional scarring) and hopefully help her with. Interestingly enough, our acceptance of the “coming out” provoked more anger, which many conversations revealed as meaning : “ you don’t care that I will be a misfit in society, just as you never cared enough about how I feel inside”. I also thought it suggestive that she didn’t come out to her pre-college friends. Drugs, alcohol and pills were used as pain-killers. That was the issue we tried to focus on. Were they effective? As D would not seek psychiatric help despite our urging, we sought help from the family practitioner who came up trumps and also referred her to a nutritionist (D hates her body).
It is obvious that so long as she refuses to see an analyst, the improvement can only be superficial. But taking care of her body and learning to accept it has helped her immensely, both by raising her self-esteem and by curtailing behaviors that put it at risk.
I hope this helps a little, although every case is so completely different.</p>
<p>It seems as though everyone is just willing to accept that she is a lesbian because she said so. I don’t think the OP is anti-gay or unable to accept it. I believe the OP merely is concerned that this “coming out” may not be real and may lead to further confusion and problems for an already troubled child. I agree with OP. First and foremost, the issues that this child carries with her must be addressed. After that, then she can be a lesbian is she truly is, or whatever she may be. OP’s concern is that this is merely a manifestation of her hurt and a means of shielding herself from further harm. The problem inherent here is that the child is a 20 year old adult who needs therapy but has been unable to find the kind of help she needs. OP no longer has the authority to mandate counseling or be in charge of the medical needs. I wish I had an answer other than to just love her, support her and give her a safe port in which to land.</p>
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<p>Would you accept that this young woman was straight because she says so? I’m going out on a limb and guessing “yes.” </p>
<p>The point is not if this young woman is gay or straight, the point is that she needs to be empowered when it comes to her own sexuality and part of that is believing what she says. She may change her mind later. We all may change our minds later. Doesn’t matter. What matters is acceptance, support and love. </p>
<p>Changing ones public sexual identity is a process but it’s not a crisis like black out drinking. This young woman needs the adults in her life to prioritize the issues.</p>
<p>Changing ones public sexual identity is a process but it’s not a crisis like black out drinking. This young woman needs the adults in her life to prioritize the issues.</p>
<p>Agree- when my daughter told me she was gay- it from that point, became a part of her.
As a somewhat experienced parent, wishing that she was * not gay* even if it was for a practical reason like worrying for her safety, is about as realistic as wishing she was * taller* because then she could see over the steering wheel easier, or wishing she was male because then she would earn more money.</p>
<p>I admit I did think it, for a sec/ but that coincided with- oh. I see.
But then I just wanted her to be happy- even though I know she must have disappointed several of the sweetest guys in her high school class.</p>
<p>Sounds like this young woman has too many other concerns to even worry about what her sexuality may be in ten years, if it even was anyones business.
She needs total acceptance now- that is unconditional.
I hope that the OP will approach a PFLAG group, because she can get support for the lgbt issues as well as direction to find support for the substance use as well.</p>
<p>Applicannot, I thought your post hit the nail on the head and you did pick up on the unease the OP appears to have with her daughter’s sexuality regardless of her destructive behaviors. Behaviors which are coping mechanisms for her and could still be there even if she had not come out as gay. There seem to be some trust issues the young woman has with her parents since she did not share the molestation information with them until a few years ago. </p>
<p>My questions are why did she not like the last two therapists? Was she in therapy alone or with her parents? Was she vocalizing some confusion about her sexuality or a proclivity relating to it? Did she feel judgement coming from the therapists? Were the therapists trying to make a correlation between the molestation and her being lesbian? Did she feel her parents likewise did/are doing the same?</p>
<p>Yes, issues may ‘stem’ from the abuse. But her sexual preferences may or may not be one of them. Meaning, is her being a lesbian being blamed on sexual abuse? If so, then she will never feel empowered by her sexuality and will always be a victim of it. Seems to me that someone needs to help her seperate the two.</p>
<p>Also, as far as ‘this’ being common place at colleges, the OP would be really startled to know that it’s becoming MORE common in high school thus the fact that it is in college is no big surprise. In our area, high schools have openly gay students and clubs which support them.</p>
<p>Denise515, sexual [orientation] confusion is not at all uncommon for those who have suffered childhood sexual abuse. The confusion, when it exists (which, to be clear, is not in all cases) often results because the one of the most common coping method for survivors is dissociation, and if one has not fully integrated their “hearts” and their “minds”, even the survivor may have difficulty in knowing what is their authentic self (and sexuality). Of course no one is saying that being a lesbian is a result of the abuse; if that were the case, 1 in 4 women would be lesbians because 1 in 4 women have suffered some form of sexual abuse (other studies say 1 in 7).</p>
<p>In addition, your statement that “There seem to be some trust issues the young woman has with her parents since she did not share the molestation information with them until a few years ago” at the very least betrays your ignorance of the issues of sexual abuse. Dissociation is a self-protective technique, and while it is working, many survivors don’t recognize or discuss the trauma to which they’ve been subjected. This is not to say that survivors don’t remember what happened to them; many, if not most, do. But they have dissociated from the emotions of the events, and as long as they don’t have to FEEL those, they can function quite well. It often takes a triggering event (in the case of the OPs daughter, it may have been the break-up with her high school boyfriend) to move them to the point where dissociation no longer works; if that coping mechanism starts to fail, the survivor generally flails, trying to find something new that works for them. It may be overt sexuality; it may be asexuality; it may be perfectionism and becoming the model “over-achiever”…the methods are as varied as the individuals.</p>
<p>So it’s quite possible that therapy earlier would have been ineffective. If the survivor is still able to dissociate, they often resist receiving help because they don’t think they need it. In addition, the OP mentioned that the initial therapy was EMDR, which is generally less effective if the survivor is still mostly dissociative. And the survivor has to want the help…but that means they have to be ready to remember the events, including the feelings. That’s an extraordinarily difficult step to take; who among us welcomes the prospect of being retraumatized (by anything) in order to get well? That is what survivors face, and it’s no wonder that many survivors go not just for weeks or months or years, BUT DECADES, before they start the first steps in the healing process.</p>
<p>If the OP had made no mention of sexual abuse and was merely struggling with the announcement of her daughter’s orientation, I would be fully on board with the posters who have taken her to task (gently or otherwise). But sexual abuse DOES change the dynamics of the whole situation, and it would be helpful if people could keep this in mind.</p>
<p>Actually, I understand quite clearly the dynamic sexual abuse plays in this scenario for reasons I will not divulge. </p>
<p>My point was that sexual abuse CAN lead to sexual identity confusion but that is not always the case. Thus the fact that it was pointed out in the OPs post as perhaps “THE” factor FOR her daughter’s sexual orientation is one that needs to be addressed. If not, the daughter could carry shame and guilt for her sexuality because those around her feel she was made that way by sexual abuse. Further victimizing her in her eyes.</p>
<p>I also think there might be some social, religious, or cultural sensitivities here which prohibited the daughter from opening up to her parents sooner. That is not to blame the parents. That is to say that the daughter felt keeping that information to herself was somehow less threatening to her than revealing it.</p>
<p>Denise, thank you for clarifying. Your’re right, social, religious, or cultural sensitivities may be factors too; the whole mess of abuse and subsequent healing is difficult, precisely because it’s not at all a linear problem==>problem recognized==>problem solved.</p>
<p>I guess what I’ve found so troubling over the course of this thread is the apparent willingness by some to castigate the OP without taking into account the level of confusion that exists for the allies of survivors too. There can be denial, and rage, and pain, and guilt…and the never-ending sense of walking on eggshells. No ally wants to trigger a survivor, but until the healing process starts (and even after), one isn’t sure if one is addressing the “survivor” or the “real” person. And allies know that survivors need control (since it was stripped from them during the abuse), but how much is too much? At what point is an ally ceding control of situations in order to aid in the healing process, and at what point is one merely enabling bad behavior?</p>
<p>I don’t think pointing out her “tone” to the OP was unwarranted or a bad thing; I just think that recognizing that this is NOT a simple case of a parent trying to deny or disparage her daughter’s declared sexual orientation is essential. It’s a parent experiencing real pain, real guilt, real fear, and real confusion, and I think we could all benefit from taking that into account.</p>
<p>OP–hang in there, it gets easier! My husband and I, like you had no inkling our son was gay. He seemed like the typical young man and had many girlfriends. He played sports, liked cars, etc… He came out to us his senior year of high school. I can say I was in complete shock for at least a year and wished on a daily basis that this was just a phase. So far, it hasn’t been.</p>
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<p>I suppose she is angry just like I am. I am not angry with my son (although I am sad to say I was at first-shame on me) I am angry that he has to deal with all the prejudice that comes with being gay. I am angry (or maybe just sad at this point) that I cannot protect him from what he will face. I am angry at my religion for leading me to believe that being gay is unnatural and a sin against God. He certainly did not choose to be gay (even told us he prayed daily for 3 years, 14-17, for God to make it go away)He however, 4 years later, is completely at peace with it and continuously tells me not to worry as he does not feel it is that big of a problem. The younger generation is really more open and accepting of each other than you might think.</p>
<p>We have accepted it now–it is not a phase. He brought his boyfriend home for the holidays (never in my wildest dreams did I picture this for him) and he was the kind of guy I would want my daughter to date. My son is still a good person and has chosen really good people to associate with.</p>
<p>I think your daughter’s drinking/partying may be her way of dealing with “her secret” that she has probably known for a long time. I am sure the molestation is also a contributing factor. It sounds to me like she has made the first step in coming out to her parents. Hopefully this will be the first step to her accepting herself. Try to be as positive about her sexuality as you possibly can in her presence. Try asking her questions about when she first knew, how she felt about coming out to you, how she feels about coming out to others, does she want the extended family to know, etc. Do this in a loving way and hopefully she will let you in on her experience. I was very clear with my son that I didn’t understand it but that I wanted to learn. He often laughs at the many questions I ask him.</p>
<p>Remeber, when she comes out, that means you must come out also (I am the parent of a lesbian). It is ok for you to feel all the things you are feeling and it will take some time to adjust. You have had 20 years to envision a life for your daughter that may never be. You must grieve the future you thought your daughter would have and begin to accept the one she will have. She will still be the person you raised and love, I promise!</p>
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<p>Mtnmomma - Wow, what a wonderful role model you are for parents responding to their kids’ coming out! It sounds as if after praying for three years to not be gay, your son has come through the process of embracing his orientation with his happiness, his self-esteem, and his prospects for a fulfilling life completely intact. There’s no doubt that your attitude and response has had a lot to do with that.</p>
<p>Thanks gadad it has been a difficult road for me, but only in the sense that I have had to learn to deal with my own limitations. My son has taught me to be a better person.</p>
<p>mtnmomma - My son came out to be in the summer after his freshman year of college. He too had presented as a fairly standard, conventional boy, with better verbal skills and less aggression, maybe. I have no excuse, no religion, no politics, for my feelings when this happened. I was devastated. I had invested a lot of emotion in my handsome son growing up to marry a girl like his mother. </p>
<p>Even when we know what we ought to feel, our emotions don’t always comply. I hope that I come to feel about this as you do. I have told my son that as soon as he has his first boy date I will replace the photo I have of him with a girl at senior prom:). We all do what we can, and you sound like a wonderful mom.</p>
<p>Do I know I should have dealt with this better? Yes. Do I hope I come to feel 100% OK with it? Yes. Until then, I just have to do the best I can. So let’s all give parents of gay kids a break. Until it happens to you, you may not know how it will feel.</p>
<p>surprisedme–I think the thing that really helped me was when I asked my son if he could “fake it.” I’m sure you know exactly what I mean. He gets plenty of attention from the girls so I know that finding a great girl would not be a problem. He said he could and that he could probably get married and have children. The catch? He said it wouldn’t be fair to the girl.</p>
<p>Thats when I knew my son had grown into a man with integrity that was perfectly capable of making good decisions. My emotions, like yours, do not always feel the way they ought to, but I remind myself daily of what a great kid he is and that he did not choose this. He is dealing with the same things I am and as a parent my job is to help him find his way.</p>
<p>Try not to beat yourself up over your feelings–I already did that and trust me, it wasn’t very productive. It will take time (maybe a long time) but I do think you will find peace with it. You are not alone.</p>
<p>Thank you. It does get better, bit by bit. We’re 18 months into the process. And my son is one of those who holds open the chance that maybe some day he’d fall in love with a woman, that it’s a spectrum, etc. Luckily his friends feel that way too. They are far less in need of a ‘definition’ for one’s place on the spectrum. </p>
<p>That said, it’s much easier for me, as his mom, to get to where I need to get emotionally having stopped saying, “Maybe it’s a phase.” I tell myself he’s gay. And, since all his crushes are on boys, and the girls who adore him get nothing, I’m guessing I’m right:). </p>
<p>Now I just want someone to have his baby. Since we’re being honest here. Those are some damn good genes.</p>
<p>Mtnmomma, I see where your son’s integrity comes from! You clearly know what is right-- for example, your son should not deceive an innocent young woman into marrying a gay man-- and you are working on envisioning your son having the life that is right for him, not the life you formerly thought he would have.</p>