“Sorry but few here have phrased it “a slight disadvantage ,” when discussing women here.”
Huh? Few? I think most posters said just that - constructive criticism (and you bet constructive criticism involves judging). However, a few chosen ones were so offended by the notion that some might criticize their clothing as inappropriate, no matter how constructively, and that it is basically their constitutional right to display butt cheeks while working at a law firm. 
After following along for 19 pages I’ll finally comment. Huh, wha? :-w
Re: grey shirts. There is a difference between a clean shirt that turned grey due to improper washing or age and a “grey” shirt that is just plain dirty and have not seen the inside of a washer in a while. The difference is easy to see (and smell). Not all who wear dirty clothing are homeless or down on their luck. At one company, we had a CSO who wore ratty shirts - but they were always freshly laundered and changed daily.
Reminds me of a comedy routine along the lines of …in every group of friends there is the one ‘ho’, if you don’t know who it is in your group of friends…" 
Would it be less offensive if one said…“that outfit reminds me of what a so and so would wear”. That way it’s not a judgement of the person but rather a statement of fact. Unless of course one would want to argue or be offended that someone else is reminded of a so and so.
Geez…
Come on dietz, no joking allowed!
Funny, about the grey shirts…I was giving my sons a bit of grief about discolored whites, as they were washing all their clothes in the same load at college, though they knew better. My nieces were smiling about it, so I mentioned that of course the nieces know to wash their clothes separately (they are lovely, well dressed girls). And one said, “Nope, I wash it all together. However, I barely have any whites, and my stuff is so flimsy, it falls apart before it gets discolored anyways”.
So much for making my point.
Hey…wait a minute…isn’t dressing like a ‘so and so’ a form of cultural appropriation! No more short shorts for the non so and so’s out there. It is a micro aggression!!!
8-|
Racism and sexism. Lovely.
If the father grew up during the war or moreso the Great Depression and before, patching clothes with fabric scraps was popularly associated with the poor/destitute and some parents who grew up in that era don’t want their kids to send that signal even if that signaling is no longer valid among the younger generations/subsequent decades.
My parents and older relatives had serious issues with me wearing ripped up jeans and t-shirts…especially during HS onwards. I just ignored them.
Amusing considering I attended a HS in a period where it was the person obsessing about others’ fashion choices who’d be picked on for “focusing on wrong priorities”, being shallow, and focusing on fashion because they’re overcompensating for possible lack of intellect.
And I attended an LAC where classmates who criticized others for fashion choices on the basis of mainstream Upper/upper-middle class norms like here on this very thread tended to be dismissed by the campus culture as being “bourgeois capitalist tools” or “kiss ups to the establishment.”
One ironic aspect of this was that in undergrad, my continuing to wear worn hand-me-down clothes as an economic conserving measure at my LAC meant I not only fit in, but also classmates who hadn’t already worn ripped up jeans/t-shirts started following my example.
However, it seems younger alums a few years after I graduated and current students at my LAC have become much more mainstream and be more conformist in their clothing/fashion choices compared to those of my undergrad years or before.
BINGO. (Though to be fair I did bring up this earlier.)
I’ve always said that part of me being a feminist is believing in the radical notion that men do have self-control. I don’t think of them as such lowly creatures as to be unable to control themselves.
Bringing this full circle (Remember me, hippy woman, recovering gray bra strapped girl?)…
I imagine this has been said (if it hasn’t in 20 pages, we are lame). I talk to my kids about anything. If, in my opinion, they’re doing something lame I’ll likely share my thoughts, like I just did with “us.” 
They can do with it what they want. Now, if my judgement of what’s lame is not shared by others, so be it. Now, if it’s been determined that they want to do the thing even though I think it’s lame, there’s a point where I need to let them be to do it. Will I still throw out a reminder now and then, I will, I do. And they won’t like it, but our relationship can weather it. But they’re still 15 and 19, very obviously with incomplete frontal lobes. When they’re done growing their brains, I will need to let up; I remember the strain on my relationship with my mom and older siblings when they continually shared their opinions of my choices when I was a full-fledged adult. And in regards to choice of clothing, minimally, we can tell them that people do judge, rightly or wrongly, some more than others, and so they might always want to be aware of that, and make their choices caring or not caring.
Did I just beat a dead horse? When do admins close a thread? Hopefully not while I was composing this. <crossing fingers…hitting="" “post=”" comment"="">…
@sushiritto , I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean by “Huh, wha?”, so I can’t respond.
@romanigypsyeyes , I did see your previous post, and I share your radical notion that men do have self-control!
No need to close this thread.
My thought is as not as a man, but married to one and I have a son. Men are more visual than women. I also suspect they think about sex a heck of a lot more as well. Now of course and absolutely they are completely capable of controlling themselves and where they look and what they do about what they see. I wish every man was as well intentioned as mine. Absolutely women can wear what they want, but don’t be naive and think what you wear won’t be noticed. I think many of us don’t necessarily want sex being the first thing people think about when it comes to our daughters. Even if our daughters don’t mind.
@cmfl11 sorry that “to be fair” comment was directed at a post that I misread after yours.
Personally, I think men actually ARE capable of self-control. As a whole. Most of them. And most of them don’t think of sex as the very first thing when they meet a woman, regardless of what they’re wearing.
I think that as a society though, we play up the idea that men have to be constantly thinking about sex in order to be manly men and thus that is what is projected from them.
I don’t know. By the very nature of my volunteer work, I talk to men about sex a lot. Lots of men from all different walks of life. Get them one on one and they sing a much different tune than when hanging out with their guy friends and putting on a show.
Which is the real personality of the guy? My bet is that it’s closer to the one on one sessions where they don’t have to put on a front.
I’ve already shared the story that Hirsi Ali, the Iranian author, told in her book, “Infidel.” Growing up, she was taught that women had to cover every part of their body, or men would lose control and society would fall apart. So when she moved to the Netherlands, she was SHOCKED that society seemed to function quite well, even when women didn’t wear much. In fact, society ran much better in Holland than in Iran! Trains were actually on time, for example!
And I go to naturist resorts and on naturist cruises every year - men seem to have no problem controlling themselves.
It does hit close to home for me, because I was raised in such a strict church that I couldn’t wear shorts or swimsuits, even on the beach. I got really tired of sermons about women needing to be modest. Really?? What about the boys?? They were never mentioned. So maybe that’s why I’ve gone to the other extreme!
As for grungy and rumpled…my DH looks schlubby, no matter what he does. The shirts are clean, the suit made to fit, the khakis hemmed to the right length…but he spills food on his French cuff shirts, the khakis droop because he has a big stomach and they always go low, the shoelaces are untied more often than not. It’s the way he is and in the 35 years I’ve known him, things have not changed. He’s terrific at what he does, though. He supervises eight attorneys in his area, all women. He assiduously avoids paying attention to clothing and appearance.
My nieces tend not to overexpose themselves, so I haven’t dealt with this issue much in my universe. Years ago, I dearly wanted to tell S2’s long-term HS not to show cleavage when going to college and internship interviews, but I kept my mouth shut. Her Women in Engineering mentoring group on her campus took care of that issue freshman year. She was from a culture where women were expected to look good and not be so intellectual, and she got some of that message from her own family. She complained about it often.
And if y’all see me with grayish bra straps showing, I’m in a very comfortable bra that I wear when I work out. Sports bras and I do not get along.
Of course men are capable of self control, when it comes to actions, but thoughts are hard to control. I read a study once that measured how often young men thought about sex, and it was something like every couple of minutes, it was disturbing. Not my kids, of course 
Is it any wonder, with how sexualized our children are nowadays, that people have multiple partners at young ages, STD’s are going gangbusters, and we actually have apps for random hookups? I don’t know why this is a good thing. I am very relieved that my children never got into that culture.
@cmfl11 I have never known any male to not exercise self control around women. So, I haven’t known any males to have been insulted, if that’s what you meant. I didn’t get what you meant by your statement.
This may be tangential, but I am glad that many women are comfortable enough in their own skin that they will wear, or not wear, what they please. My DIL is pregnant and they periodically send photos of the 2 of them at the beach or what have you. Back “in my day” we wore mumu type dresses to cover up our pregnancy. Nowadays they wear form fitting outfits or 2 piece bathing suits that proudly share their beautiful state. It’s great that they are comfortable with what they choose to wear, or not wear.
BTW, I’d just like to add that a female trainer/coach at my gym, roughly half my age, pinched me a week or two ago in the area of my left oblique. I train on my own, so she’s not my trainer. Did she exercise self control? ;))