<p>aibarr, Thank you for your quotes. Very interesting for me while I contemplate if I am codependent myself.</p>
<p>mommathree–you mentioned depression, has anyone wondered about bipolar disorder? just wondering about the shifts, and changes.</p>
<p>Momma-three,
De-lurking to let you know I am thinking of you and your family in this difficult situation. This type of situation unfortunately happens to many families and it takes a great toll on all of those involved.</p>
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<p>I thought he was quoting momma-three by posting passges from her other threads. I guess I’m not the only person who got confused.</p>
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<p>Does it help to take a step back and realize that it’s not your fault that your daughter is immature and impulsive, that she can’t think out the consequences of what she does and doesn’t understand other people’s emotions? (I’m not a diagnostician, but all of these attributes are very typical of people who have Aspergers, btw, especially the part about not seeming to have emotions, and not understanding others’ emotions.) Your daughter is what she is. She is not behaving the way she behaves to make you mad-- how could she, when she doesn’t understand other people’s emotions? She just doesn’t get it.</p>
<p>^^^^The way I describe her does sound like Aspergers but I don’t think that is what it is. She has been to two psychiatrist and I have have asked them if they believed that is what may be going on. Neither of them felt that was the situation however they did not seem sure of her diagnosis other than the depression and the ADD. She has not allowed me to come to the psychiatrist since the second visit so I don’t know what may have been discussed since. As you know once your child is 18 they are considered adults by law and they are entitled to complete privacy. She seems to have many social problems that seem to relate to her connection to people but I just don’t know how this could be investigated further. Do you have any ideas?</p>
<p>Momma-three, I think you’ve exhausted all of the workable ideas to set your daughter on what you feel is the right course for her… You’re her mother; you know her intimately and you love her dearly. I know from personal experience how terrifying and impossible it is to contemplate not doing everything you can to help your loved one avoid pain and terrible consequences to her actions. I raged at my father for “giving up” on my mother, but after so long, I realized that I couldn’t fix her life and still live my own. As soon as I’d get her electricity turned back on, I would find that she’d e-mailed a “business prospect in Nigeria” with her driver’s license number and full name, or that she’d overdrafted her checking account and was out of money. I was her safety net. Without me, she’d be a bag lady on the street. How on earth could I desert her and let her fall?</p>
<p>But no matter what I did, she was like a leaky hose… We’d get one problem fixed and she’d create another one. It was making me physically ill. It was making me insane.</p>
<p>I found that when I detached from my mom, she still managed to survive. It was shaky, but she did it. She found someone to drive her places, since I’d taken away her car keys-- she’d been in two unexplained accidents. That person found her a caretaker. The caretaker found her a guardian. The guardian got her set up in an assisted living facility, where she is safe and happy. She’s still in the downward spiral of her many diseases, but she has a garden. She’s relearned how to play piano, and plays for the other residents of the facility. She’s regained her spunk and fire, though her multiple diseases will eventually consume her. Without me… she has done okay. And she’s regained the independence and the autonomy that I stole from her when I assumed responsibility for her every need.</p>
<p>As unthinkable as it is, I think maybe that the best medicine for her would really be to give her some space to fail. I don’t think you can do her growing up for her. I don’t think you can do her life-living for her, as much as you want to help her be what you want for her to be, to save her from failure and discomfort.</p>
<p>I wish you peace, and I wish you faith.</p>
<p>It is inappropriate to post private communication on a public forum. These kinds of posts have been deleted in the past and hopefully this one will too. Respectful opinions are fine. Rude, confrontational behavior is not.</p>
<p>If you think she has Aspergers-like traits, it might help you to research around the net and see how other parents of people with those traits deal with it. This is not about changing her, because from what you’ve said, right now you don’t have any way of doing that, but rather of coming to terms with what she is. </p>
<p>A person can recover from depression. A person can’t recover from Aspergers/autism, though one can learn ways to work around some of the problems it might cause.</p>
<p>…just deleted my post</p>
<p>aibarr- I am sorry that you went through such trauma with your mother. Unless you have cared for someone this way it is hard to imagine the difficulty of letting go. I think it was an important story to share for that very point. Letting go.</p>
<p>Please do not assume that your mother’s “multiple diseases will eventually consume her.”. This is not a given. You stated that she is in assisted living, is safe, happy, has regained her spunk and fire. You keenly pointed out that she has regained independence and autonomy that she did not have when every responsibility was being met for her. It is not a given that she will do poorly. Given a stable environment, it is very possible that her health may improve. Mental health is not static, nor is it a predetermined that someone will never recover.</p>
<p>FWIW, you did a very difficult thing that helped your mother towards a possible road of recovery…at the very least a more stable life. You did this knowing all the things that could go wrong if you didn’t take care of every aspect of your mother’s life. You are both better off for it. You are a brave, strong, and loving person.</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing your story that letting go is sometimes the most loving choice.</p>
<p>Cardinal…I just wonder if the psychiatrist could miss this. I thought the same thing for a long time… could the docs have missed it? It would explain that missing something that many of us see. I also think my dad has Aspergers (his social skills were always poor but he has had an amazing life and a wonderful wife (my mother) who really understood him. He led a very rich life even though the social component has always been a challenge.</p>
<p>I wish that all children with aspergers could have the life that my father has had. His book should be a facinating read…I wish it could be renamed including his recognition of aspergers. It would be a book that could offer alot of perspective for parents of aspies.</p>
<p>(I didn’t want to be a total downer in the context of this thread, but my mom’s also a morphine addict and has had several trips to the ER with depressed breathing and pneumonia from aspirating her food, because she’s destroyed the muscles she uses to swallow, and her teeth have fallen out from prolonged use of narcotics. The doctors have informed me that the next step is a feeding tube… Thus concludes the “it could be worse” portion of the program… 
)</p>
<p>M3, one of the things that I notice in retrospect that I kept doing was to keep trying to find a reason why this was happening to my mom. I would come up with a possible diagnosis, something that sounded familiar, and I would press the matter until it couldn’t be ignored… I was muddying the waters. I looked for a cure, something with a name, something that could be diagnosed and fixed and then we could move on. I really was looking for the silver bullet.</p>
<p>I realize now that this was just from my desire to fix it and make it all better. I know now that I can’t heal a person, even if I love them very dearly. They have to seek recovery from within. My interference will only stand in the way of my loved one getting what she needs…</p>
<p>Signing off for the evening… Sleep well, momma-three. Sending you peaceful juju through my cable modem so you can blissfully slumber tonight…</p>
<p>aibarr… I know that I can’t fix things but as her mom I will never be able to stop looking for answers that may be able to get her back to where she is functioning in this world with a sense of reality. I am prepared to let her go but I know that this will be too much stress on a fragile very young lady (mentality of the 15 year old). </p>
<p>My plans going forward:</p>
<p>I am not paying the rent in her new home. She needs to understand that you don’t always get what you want just because you want it. I believe this was an act of manipulation to get us to pay for her rent and expenses. </p>
<p>The car is being returned or repossessed on the last day of her class at the CC. If she seems stable down the road than I will turn the car over to her providing she takes out her own insurance. </p>
<p>I will have all mail related to loans so she can deal with it as she wants.</p>
<p>We will no longer provide any assistance with her work. My husband and I will start to live our own lives and not deprive ourselves of time together in order to help her with time management or subject work when asked. </p>
<p>I will only accept phone calls, and I will stop making calls until she is civil and reasonable.</p>
<p>I will seek therapy beginning next week so that I can focus on getting some normalcy back in my life.</p>
<p>I will pray daily and often so that I can understand that right now the only thing I could let her do is succeed or fail on her own.</p>
<p>I will include daily rigourous excercise in my life so that I could increase my endorphins and get good and tired when I need to sleep. </p>
<p>I will expand my summer hours so that for now I could remain very busy. I love my work so this could serve as a good distraction right now.</p>
<p>I will reconnect with people in my life that I have not spent as much time with because of our time devoted to our daughter.</p>
<p>I know that I need help in letting her go but I need to really do it. I love her so much but my love is just not enough with this kid. She needs to learn that we will not accept her behavior and now we do not need to see it or experience it.</p>
<p>good night aibarr…I think I can hear them so I too will sign off. Thankyou and wishing you peaceful nights. You have been through so much and have come so far.</p>
<p>Bravo, momma-three for post 300!</p>
<p>In response to a number of reports from several members, I have deleted a large number of inappropriate posts from this thread (and taken some other moderating actions). As a result, some post numbers referred to in other posts are inaccurate. When referring to particular posts, it is best to link directly to the post, or do a quote, just in case of subsequent post deletions. Apologies for the confusion, but I hope that the thread can proceed in an appropriate manner from this point. Thank you for your cooperation. – Mod JEM </p>
<p>M-3</p>
<p>Post #281…That post really makes me feel happy for you because, regardless of what happens with your daughter, and this could be a very long road, with you in and out of the picture, the focus on you and on your own life will give you the opportunity to have joy in the midst of the messiness that is life. It won’t be perfect, and you will have days that are harder than others. It is a process to let go of our children even when they do not have extraordinary circumstances, as I’m sure you know from your sons leaving home. No matter what, though, if you are gentle with yourself, and if you can be aware when you find yourself slipping back into that feeling that it is an emergency, things will gradually change for you and some light will come into your life. Over time.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I did want to say that therapists and psychologists miss diagnoses from time to time. It is an inexact science and usually not so straightfoward as we would like. When medication is involved, and rapidly changing circumstances, it can get to be even more tricky. There are people who are better diagnosticians than others but they aren’t always better therapists…differing sets of skill sets, and it can get challenging. The best diagnostician I ever knew, and he was a genius, referred all of his patients for talk therapy to other therapists, but did the medication, when warranted, himself (never new a Doc who prescribed less medication either.)</p>
<p>When dealing with ADD and depression, the medication is very tricky and it can take a verry long time to get it right. ADD medication can also cause anxiety, which creates issues with the depression medication…etc…</p>
<p>If your daughter ever comes to you and asks for help with this, again, call the local best emergency room hospital that has a psych ward and ask who works with the crises patients. These docs are usually triage psychiatrists and they are the best diagnosticians and the best at finding referrals to the most skilled people in each area of specialty. Just for future reference, if you ever find youself in this situation.</p>
<p>In the meantime, good luck to you. I am very impressed with both your openness and your willingness to entertain new ideas and your willingness to find your way back to your own life. I hope you will find a lot of joy to counterbalance the sadness.</p>
<p>best.</p>