<p>Sending {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} to you momma3!</p>
<p>Just thinking of you tonight… I’m hoping peace finds you and your mind and body can be at rest, for at least a short time.</p>
<p>When God closes a door, He opens a window… but it’s hell in the hallway.</p>
<p>Sending you peace this evening, M3. Peace, prayers, hugs, and chocolate.</p>
<p>This stage in your life and relationship is not forever! I know of many estranged kids who return to the family fold (not actually moving back in - but renewing ties and relationships) once they have matured, and certainly when they have kids of their own. Stay loving and open to any steps, no matter how small, and try not to push for too much of a relationship now.</p>
<p>Do not open her mail. Seriously, don’t. It’s a federal offense, it’s overrunning a boundary of privacy, and if she ever finds out it will be one more thing to hold against you.</p>
<p>“But would she really care?” you may be wondering. “It’s just a couple letters,” you may be thinking.</p>
<p>Well, I don’t know your daughter, but I have a cousin who didn’t get along with her mother. Cousin’s Mom accidentally opened one of Cousin’s insurance bills (I honestly believe it was an accident, their first names are very similar), read the enclosed letter, and out of concern offered advice. Cousin was furious and offended at the lack of privacy. Cousin broke off contact completely for two years. </p>
<p>Did you ever get your daughter’s money to her?</p>
<p>“You gotta take the crunchy with the smooth.”</p>
<p>^^^
A friend of mine said something similar the other day that I thought was cute. “Some people get Chunky Monkey and some people get Vanilla”.</p>
<p>And most of us get both at some point in our lives.</p>
<p>Actually my husband opened it. He said “daughter is not here and has not requested mail to be sent anywhere so things need to be addressed”. Our daughter has never cared about us opening her mail in fact none of our kids care if their mail is opened and actually neither do we. My husband and I have called home many times when out of town and the kids tell us what we got in the mail. It’s mail folks we have nothing to hide. We are not that uptight about stuff in an envelope.</p>
<p>Momma-three … I hope this all turns out well for your daughter and your family!</p>
<p>I do want to chime in and suggest that noone opens your daughter’s mail … I understand your family’s norm is that everyone is very open about their mail … however your daughter’s relationship at this time is not at your family’s norm. If this were my daughter I would try to respect her need for independence as much as possible and also try to avoid doing things that might **** her off as much as possible. I can only remember 3 or 4 fights with my Dad (I’m 51) and one of them was about opening my mail while I was in college … looking back it was a really stupid argument … but at the time I really felt like he was disrespecting me and not acknowledging I was an adult. Your husband mentioned things need to be taken care and you also mentioned she checks things on-line … so what is in the paper statement that your daughter will not see on-line? and it seems to me she wants to take care of her life without help from the rest of her family at least at this time. It seems to me the best way to get her back into the family is to give her her space away from the family while she is away and let her deal with the hiccups that happen.</p>
<p>So far, I’ve been lucky with my 3 kids that we haven’t had to deal with anything as challenging and frightening as you are … however a few of my cousins and neices and nephews have had rougher paths to adulthood (including breaking contact with family for times up to a year) and fortunately all came out the other side of this experience and have resumed typically family lives (with all the good and bad stuff we all experience).</p>
<p>I understand the whole mail thing and that mail is private. Neither I or my husband would ever open mail such as cards or personal things,but in our family mail such as financial stuff is an open book with all of us. Our kids have never viewed this stuff as private from us probably because we are pretty open with our own financial affairs. I would not think to open mail with my newly graduated son who is working and establishing his own finances and accounts but all of the other kids are still dependent on us regarding finances. There is no secret as to what they have because at the end of the year we see everything anyway when we are doing taxes and filing financial paperwork. Even my oldest will call and ask if he received anything important and a couple of times he has asked us to open his mail. Some families are very private about things but we never were. Our kids have all worked for us at times and are fully aware of our business finances and our personal finances. All of oour kids have either my husband or myself on all of their accounts as joint so their really isn’t an issue. Even my daughter has me down on her accounts and she has had ample time to remove me if she did not want me to see anything. I view her inaction in this regard as her way of wanting us to know she might be having some financial trouble. Remember that not every family is the same in this regard. I have asked her before if she wanted me to have her mail forwarded and she has already said that if something important comes I should let her know.</p>
<p>^ My family is the same way, I have joint accounts with the kids. S don’t even have a separate account of his own. We also put their names on some of our accounts as a fall back just in case something happens to us so that they have access to some money. I open their bank account statements and our accountant do their taxes. I think with kids who are not financially independent we still need to know. The kids know our financial situation as well. Again, in case something happens to us, they need to have a good idea of what they are dealing with. </p>
<p>You d and family are in my thoughts. </p>
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<p>I could have written this about my son. However, there is nothing we can do to change the past. We just have to deal with the present, one step at a time. I know I did the best I could with the knowledge I had and I am sure you did too.</p>
<p>D1’s bank acct is tied to ours. When I go online, I am able to see her acct. I could see how she is spending her money. We opened the acct when she was under 18. Since then I have asked her from time to time on her spending pattern. D1 has not found it intrusive to change her acct status. </p>
<p>If I were OP, I would continue to open her daughter’s bank statement. It would give her an insight on how her daughter is doing, and if her daughter is alive. I say …the daughter’s privacy, if she could have any information on her daughter’s whereabout and know if her daughter is alive or not, it’s a small price to pay.</p>
<p>^^^^^ Oldfort We would have to be dead not to open the little bit of news I could get. I know when parents are on the outside looking in it seems easy but when you are in the midst of these things there are no rules of etiquette and as far as mail is concerned we never had any anyway. Tonight I am tempted to just go out there and find her and ask her to come home. I just don’t know if I could let this continue especially since I don’t know if she is really ok or not. The other post that is running right now has me so shaken that I just can’t sleep. There is not a thing in the world that is more important to me than getting my daughter to a good place right now and I just can’t do that if I am not talking to her. This needs to stop right away because I just could not bear what could be if something were to happen to my baby.</p>
<p>As you read this, keep in mind that several years ago, I was obsessively following an on-line blog that I had accidentally found that had regular posts documenting the heavy partying and risk taking lifestyle of my older son, who lived thousands of miles away.</p>
<p>I ended up hospitalized with depression due to my concern about older son. </p>
<p>My therapist kept suggesting that I not review the blog because --as she correctly pointed out – I could not control my son’s behavior, and all that following his blog was doing was adding to my fears and underscoring my powerlessness. Eventually, I let him know that I was reading the blog, which he then removed, and stayed out of contact with my husband, other son and me for more than a year. We had no idea where he was.</p>
<p>By comparison, the OP’s daughter is doing well. The OP’s daughter has finished community college, which is a big accomplishment. Yes, she appears to have financial problems, but unfortunately, many people --including mature adults – make bad decisions about their finances, and may learn only the hard way how to appropriately handle their finances.</p>
<p>The OP’s daughter also lives relatively close by, so if there is a major problem such as the OP’s daughter’s living in the streets, the OP is likely to hear about it. The D also is very likely to come home on her own if the day comes when she can’t support herself or live with friends.</p>
<p>After the kind-hearted, but clueless relative who was letting older S live with her, retired and moved away, H feared that S was living on the streets. I told H that S was likely crashing with friends.</p>
<p>Later, we found out that was exactly what he did. Then – when he got tired of those uncushy arrangements – he and two friends moved to a new city, and two of them – including S – got jobs and the three of them got an apartment together. They kicked the other friend out when he wouldn’t work. Four years later, S is still working the same job, and has had some promotions and pay raises. He brags to us that he has never missed a day of work. He even has – in his own way-- apologized for the stress he caused us when he was running wild.</p>
<p>I know what it’s like to fear that one’s child will die from drugs or alcohol or may kill someone else while high or drunk. I lived with that fear, too. Still, I learned that there was absolutely nothing I could do to force S to live the kind of life I thought he should live. He was a grown man. I was powerless.</p>
<p>What the OP can do is stay involved in support groups like Al-Anon, continue posting on here. The OP also can go to therapy --perhaps get her husband involved, too – so she and her husband stay as mentally healthy as possible while getting the support that they need, and being available to their other children.</p>
<p>The OP can not control her D’s life. Trying to do so – including by reading the OP’s mail – is not going to work, and is not going to prevent more serious problems.</p>
<p>Oh, and I also know what it’s like to try to control the finances of a wayward child. While my S was running wild, I had control of $6,000 of his money, funds I had promised to turn over to him when he turned 21. Due to his lifestyle at that age, I refused to give him the money because I was afraid he’d use it all on risky behavior. He became furious with me about this.</p>
<p>I finally gave it over to him because I realized he was an adult, and I couldn’t control him nor could I predict what he’d do with his money. I believe that he ended up using it to move to a new city and start a new life with a better path. However, even if he hadn’t, it would not have been my fault. He was an adult. It was his money. It was his life. I would love to have been able to force him to make good decisions, but no parent has that power over their adult children.</p>
<p>There is an active thread on the forum right now about the heartbreak of losing a child due to the often typical behavior of kids this age. I have been so deeply affected by this womans post that I have decided that I need to love my daughter even more, if that is even possible. That does not mean smothering her or bailing her out of difficult spots but it means that she Must know this is a family that will take her back and that we love her and feel the emptiness since she is gone. If it means more compromise than we will work on that. I just can’t bare the thought of being that parent on the other thread… There but for the grace of God go I. That family is in so much pain right now, and will be for probably the rest of their lives and I have to believe that her post was written at this time for a reason. Many of you do not believe in the power of Gods intercession but I do. Sometimes the higher power puts people in our path at times of our lives for a reason. I am going to a meeting and seeing my therapist twice this week so much of what I am saying right now is a fright/flight reaction which I need to temper with some solid and calm thinking. I know that I am not responsible for the actions of my 19 year old but I am responsible for my own actions and behaviors and I do believe I can do more unless that is proven wrong. I just can’t sit by anymore and lose my girl…I just could not deal with the heartbreak of not having her in my life or watching her become a woman.</p>
<p>“I know that I am not responsible for the actions of my 19 year old but I am responsible for my own actions and behaviors and I do believe I can do more unless that is proven wrong. I just can’t sit by anymore and lose my girl…I just could not deal with the heartbreak of not having her in my life or watching her become a woman.”</p>
<p>Loving your child is very different than thinking you can control your child.</p>
<p>You can let go with love, which means, for instance, caring about her finances, but not opening her bank statements; It means being willing to allow her to come back home if she follows reasonable house rules; it means being loving her even though she’s flinging insults at you or is behaving in ways differently than how you brought her up.</p>
<p>It’s important to also realize that no matter how much you love your child or try to control her, you can not keep her from being self destructive if that’s what she’s bent on being. Other than taking the drastic, illegal steps of locking her in your home and watching her every minute, how could you keep her from self-destructive behavior?</p>
<p>The son of the mother on the other thread didn’t die because his parents didn’t love him or didn’t do enough to control him. He made some very bad decisions, and his loving parents couldn’t stop him from doing those things.</p>
<p>Please go to Al-Anon meetings and get a sponsor in Al-Anon. This could help you realize that you didn’t cause your daughter’s problems, and you can’t control or cure her behavior. You can, though, keep loving her.</p>
<p>I think you have gotten a lot of support and good advice on this thread. The 2 recent posts by NSM should be helpful to you as she has been there, done that. I haven’t. I’m not you and can’t know what it is like, so you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you wish.</p>
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<p>In my view, you should not push her to come home. She obviously wants to be independent and she is at the age where she should be anyway. But sitting and doing nothing is not necessary either. Can you email her? Can you leave phone messages? Do you know the address of her boyfriend where she is staying presently where you can snail mail her or send a telegram? If so, I would suggest a letter that explains that you are NOT angry with her and understand her desire to be on her own and you will support her. Go on to say that you are not only worried about her well being but very much wish to stay connected and would like to set up a meeting to learn about her plans, to hear how she is doing, and to find out in what ways you can support her going forward. Tell her you are not going to sway her to do this or that but just want to hear how she is and what her plans are so that you can support her and also be connected and not have to worry for peace of mind. If she is more comfortable, you can offer to have a third party present…a counselor or a friend of hers, whatever she wishes. Make it clear you are not going to tell her what to do or try to convince her or make her come home and again, repeat you are not angry with her and that you love her very much. Ask her to get word to you in response as a courtesy so that you don’t worry this much. </p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>
<p>I totally agree with the below. I also think it would be nice for you to congratulate her on getting her associates degree. It will be important to NOT give her any message that you feel she can’t make unless she moves home. Fine to tell her that you love her, would like to hear from her more so as not to worry --as mothers are prone to do, and she’s welcome to come home if she follows rules. </p>
<p>Just be very careful not to indicate that you think she’ll end up dead unless she comes home. She really is at the age in which is appropriate for young people to become independent – including living independently of their parents.</p>
<p>Any message that you think she can’t make it without you may lead to her cutting ties completely in order to prove she can take care of herself without you.</p>
<p>I was surprised when older S told me – once we had reconciled – that he thought that part of growing up should be moving far from family, cutting ties with nuclear family so as to learn to live independently. Despite being a very intelligent man, he lacks some basic knowledge of how the world works, and sometimes his thinking is as simplistic as that of a child. </p>
<p>From what you’ve posted recently, it seems the main risks your D now faces are wrecking her credit and having to find a new place to live. These are all things that can be fixed easily and by her. There’s no indication that your D is going to be starving in the streets. There also are indications that she has been going to therapy.</p>
<p>I cannot suggest more strongly that you go to therapy and to a support group. This will help you help your daughter, and will also give you the help that you very much need during this stressful time.</p>
<p>"In my view, you should not push her to come home. She obviously wants to be independent and she is at the age where she should be anyway. But sitting and doing nothing is not necessary either. Can you email her? Can you leave phone messages? Do you know the address of her boyfriend where she is staying presently where you can snail mail her or send a telegram? If so, I would suggest a letter that explains that you are NOT angry with her and understand her desire to be on her own and you will support her. Go on to say that you are not only worried about her well being but very much wish to stay connected and would like to set up a meeting to learn about her plans, to hear how she is doing, and to find out in what ways you can support her going forward. Tell her you are not going to sway her to do this or that but just want to hear how she is and what her plans are so that you can support her and also be connected and not have to worry for peace of mind. If she is more comfortable, you can offer to have a third party present…a counselor or a friend of hers, whatever she wishes. Make it clear you are not going to tell her what to do or try to convince her or make her come home and again, repeat you are not angry with her and that you love her very much. Ask her to get word to you in response as a courtesy so that you don’t worry this much. "</p>
<p>The fact that your D earned a degree and is going to therapy are two positive significant things, I agree. </p>
<p>I understand a mother’s worry, believe me. That is why just connecting and letting her know you support her and want to just know she is doing OK and can share her plans is the direction I’d go in. She doesn’t need to move home.</p>
<p>Perhaps this Al-Anon book about grief may be helpful:</p>
<p>[Opening</a> Our Hearts…](<a href=“http://www.al-anon.org/b29.html]Opening”>Conference Approved Literature (CAL) | Al-Anon Family Groups)</p>
<p>I don’t want to control her and I never did. I just recognized that there were difficulities with our daughter that our sons had never experienced. These difficulties made the general day to day decision making more difficult for her and academic life a challenge. I just want her to know this is her home and she is welcomed back if that is what she wants and if she could respect the family and each of its members. I have learned alot in the time she has been away and the one most important thing that I recognize is that I no longer want to have an almost adult child still acting out like a teenager. I just don’t miss that and I can’t allow that type of behavior in our home. To resolve these issues our daughter may need to become a little more straight forward even if we do not like what she is doing at least we know that she is honest about it. I would still expect to know where she is going or with whom and I would be most concerned with the latter because that is just common curtesy to us as parents. Our other children do not have any issues with just dropping us a call to let us know when they will be home so why should I expect less from our daughter. If she does not want to come home I could accept that but I would hope to have some contact with her so that she knows we love and care about how she is doing. </p>
<p>Northstarmom…You admit to going into a sever depression when you did not know how your son was doing or where he was. This is our daughter is is absolutely beautiful and an easy target interms of her height and weight. As crazy as that sounds to some it is not crazy, and I will admit that I have never worried about any of my three sons getting taken advantage of or attacked since they have been able to handle themselves emotionally and physically (concerned about things but not worried). Our daughter has had experiences already which have put her in dangerous situations and her history of ADHD and depression have proved to be a problem in her day to day life and her ability to use good judgement. To what point does a parent sit back and say they must have their space to grow without stepping in to offer a open door to come home. I can’t force her to come home but I can be more understanding and act with greater love to allow a opening to occur.</p>
<p>“To what point does a parent sit back and say they must have their space to grow without stepping in to offer a open door to come home. I can’t force her to come home but I can be more understanding and act with greater love to allow a opening to occur.:”</p>
<p>At what point does a parent let go and let their grown child grow up and live away from home?</p>
<p>From what you’ve described, your daughter is going to therapy and has obtained her associates while living away from her. Those are outstanding achievements and attest to some level of maturity and responsibility.</p>
<p>My son was a college drop-out who was boozing and drugging, not working a job, had posted on his blog that he had tried to kill himself (but as he sat in his running car in a closed garage, he was found by a friend) and refused to go to therapy even though H and I offered to pay for it and provided him with health insurance that also would pay. The last time I had seen him, he had seemed paranoid, was talking oddly about people at work spying on him. </p>
<p>He also was driving drunk and getting into bar fights. And he lived thousands of miles away from us. The middle aged, severely depressed relative he was living with wasn’t noticing anything wrong with S and refused to look at S’s blog that detailed his life.</p>
<p>There was absolutely nothing I could do about it. I couldn’t drag him home nor Baker Act him to an institution because to involuntarily commit someone, you have to prove they are an immediate danger to themselves or others. </p>
<p>While I understand that as a loving parent, you are concerned about your daughter, it does seem that she is doing reasonably well now and she doesn’t seem interested in living at home nor – from her success at school and in attending therapy – does she seem to fall apart when living on her own. If she were severely depressed, her therapist probably would have hospitalized her, and she wouldn’t have been able to get her associates. </p>
<p>Also, both ADHD nor a tendency to become depressed are things that stay with people for a lifetime. Your daughter will need to learn to handle these things as an independent adult, including seeking therapy forever. You won’t be around forever. The things that she’s learning now will be of use to her for the rest of her life, and thus far, her accomplishments while living on her own indicate she’s capable of learning those things.</p>