<p>When my kids come home to visit, I expect common courtesy and to come home at a reasonable time or to let us know when they’ll be back and where they are and all that jazz. But the thing in your situation is that your D was living at home on a regular basis during the college age years. And I can see why she’d want some independence and not have to follow high school type rules at home. I cannot see my kids living at home at that age (they would not want to either) and they have total freedom to come and go as they please where they live (away from home). That is the lifestyle they are used to. When they come home, they are respectful that it’s a little different than when they live by themselves. They just come home for short visits (in fact, one is here right now…she is 21, but hasn’t been home in seven months, and is here for six nights, and honestly isn’t going anywhere without us while here but she surely is allowed to but would be home at a reasonable time and would have to say where she is going and when she’d be back, even though in her day to day life away from home, doesn’t have to be accountable for every move!). But your D isn’t getting to do what my girls do or did during the ages of 18-21 ever, as she was living at home all the time. So, I can’t blame her for wanting to live an independent life. It’s time. If I were you, I’d let go of the wish that she live back at home and move onto the idea of her being independent and then focus on reconnecting in your relationship and letting her know you support her decisions and just want to know where she is living, her overall plans for the year and so on. I know all that stuff with my girls, but I don’t know their every move as they do not live at home. Try to move on from the idea of her living at home and work with the current situation of what she may do this year and where she’ll live and trying to have her share that with you, and own her own decisions.</p>
<p>I cross posted with NSM but I Think we are saying something similar. Try to let go of your D so she can live independently but where you are supportive and in her life and she shares with you. My girls are on their own (they are 21 and 23). They have never lived at home since high school, not even for a summer. One started college at 16 1/2. I’ll admit they do not have any mental illness. I certainly share your concern and worries but feel they should be focused on helping your D be independent and maintaining a supportive relationship, but where your D makes her own decisions.</p>
<p>Remember my daughter lived away her freshman year at her university. She needed to come home because of problems that she was having both academic and emotional. She only lived home for this year and we did not tie her down by any means. She went away weekends and did all that jazz. We had a problem when her behavior became wreckless and dangerous (without getting into all the details). That is when we put our foot down and said it was unacceptable. It would still be unacceptable but we do need to come to some sort of compromise.</p>
<p>When kids live on their own who is supporting them? My sons are away at school and we support them just as I am sure most of the kids who are away are being supported. Our daughter is in that age group which many people consider to be a young adult yet they still need financial support. I do not believe that a young adult of 19 is capable of financially supporting themselves while attending school and needing a car to get around. The stress of this could be large enough to make this difficult for someone who is not suffering depression/anxiety and ADDH. If my daughter was living in a dorm or sharing housing near a campus I would send her off happily. That is not what she is doing and in fact I don’t know what she is doing. There is a right logical way to handle things and there is this way. Our daughter has not thought things through in a mature and responsible way. I understand what all of you are saying but please realize that I have three other kids and they do things in an appropriate and mature thoughtful way. We have not seen that in our daughter and that is what concerns us.</p>
<p>I totally understand that your D is not like your sons who were not a problem. This is not your fault. </p>
<p>Your D did live away from home at college for a year. It can be very difficult to live at home once one has been out on their own already. I think my kids would find that tricky and stifling. I realize since she lived at home, she had to respect your rules. But I recall an early post where she had to be home at 10:30 PM I think it was on school nights (college) and that would be a difficult rule for a kid who had already lived at college. It is kind of like going backwards. Obviously she could not do things she did in a dorm in your home. And of course would need to let you know where she would be and when she would get home. But the idea of curfews on the early side for a college student who had already been on her own would be difficult to enforce, I think. </p>
<p>As far as financial support, we don’t go by age in our family We paid for all their support when they were in college or grad school. We do not pay any support (but health care) during the summers they have chosen to work away from home (was the case every summer during college and after) or post graduation. My youngest D graduated college at age 20 and has been out a year and we do not support her financially. If you choose to financially support your D, that is your choice. If it were me, I’d support her if she were in school. My kids know to get a job when out of school and they have. If they had some struggle securing one, we’re here but that hasn’t happened. Again, my kids don’t have any mental illness issues. Your D is seeing a therapist and so that is positive. </p>
<p>I understand the heartbreak. But I would not be looking for D to move back home unless she wanted to. I would support her decisions and try to stay connected and talk about her plans, and have her know you are in her corner and will be there for her. I’d also give her the money that is in her name.</p>
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<p>It concerns me that you continue to compare your daughter to your sons, or to actually believe there is “a right logical way” to do things. I hear in your posts that you still, in your mind, have this story going on where you are going to tell your daughter the “rules” for living with you. It is as if you are in denial about the fact that she is not in any way shape or form asking to live with you. I understand the need to play the argument out in your head until you are done with it. </p>
<p>You might consider writing her a letter or two and reading them to your therapist so that you do not have to send them to her. I am going to tell you that you sound very angry, which is a normal part of the grieving process and soon, hopefully, you will reach “acceptance” and recognize that your daughter has actually left home and is not asking to live with you, nor did any of your threats: to take away the car, to withhold her money, to kick her out of the house-- have any impact on her except to push her further away.</p>
<p>Goodl luck to you. I realize you are cycling through one of your co-dependent phases and will soon come back out on the other side. But, just to give you some feedback, when you talk about your daughter, you are not talking about the girl who left early in the summer, completed her AA degree, continues to go to therapy, and had her car taken away. You are talking about a 16 year old.</p>
<p>I agree with the last couple posts. There are kids that live on their own at 19. Kids that don’t go to college, kids that put themselves through college, kids that marry right out of high school and start their own families, kids that deal with all sorts of financial and emotional issues without the mom and dad and home. When you ask who is supporting them it is entirely dependent on what kind of support - emotional support, financial support, etc. Clearly it varies just as the adult relationship between a husband and a wife can vary with degree of emotional and/or financial support. There is no one right answer…it depends on the two parties and how they work it out. This situation is not the vision you had and it might not be the choice you preferred but it happened. There is the very real probability that she may never again live in your house. Hopefully you can work through with your therapist how you make that transition to be there for her not as mother and child but as adult mother and adult daughter in a way that the two of you can accept while encompassing emotional support and financial support. If there is a husband in the picture then he’s part of that triangle also with ties to you and his adult daughter.</p>
<p>I was thinking the same thing as poetgrl – that being the “black sheep” in your family must be very difficult for your D. Based on your descriptions, your sons sound like saints, especially in the way they care for her, or try to. I wonder how she sees her place in your family. I would bet that a lot of her frustration and anger stems from feeling like the failure in a family of saintly, successful offspring. (Also, I can’t help but wonder why “momma-three”? Do I understand correctly that you have three sons as well as your daughter? You don’t have to answer.)</p>
<p>It is clear from your posts how much you love your D, and also how entrenched you are in seeing her a certain way. Please take some comfort in your D’s achievements this summer – that she got her Associates degree, and that she is continuing to go to therapy. These are not the acts of a self-destructive person.</p>
<p>Is there someone, an adult, that could act as a go-between for you and your D until you can both cool down? Someone who you both trust? It might give you both the breather you need, but help keep the lines of communications open. If you are not careful, you may find yourselves in a situation where she is too stubborn or proud to come to you for help, and years can go by.</p>
<p>Obviously, I don’t know all the specifics of her behavior, and she does sound like she may have some kind of mental disorder (that she may likely outgrow, since she IS being productive this summer), but I wanted to offer a different perspective.</p>
<p>Yes, I know that in one post I had mentioned that I asked her to be home early. She had already been gone for a long weekend and had come home, showered, and was back out. It did not seem unreasonable at the time to ask that she come home early because she was starting her class the next day and needed to wake up very early. I had already found myself waking her for classes during the school year. She was never home early but every now and then it would not hurt to spend some time getting stuff in order so that she was not running around in the morning looking for things or not remembering what she needed to take care of that day. This caused alot of unneccessary stress in the mornings. I watched countless days where she would come home from school and need to head back out to take care of something that she could have done while there. She would get herself in a panic trying to remember all the things she needed to do. It was unnecessary and could have been avoided if she had made a list and reviewed in her mind what she wanted to do. This type of stuff would throw her into a dizzy for the rest of the day and as a result made my stomach sick just watching her.</p>
<p>I also do not expect or want our daughter to move back home unless she wants to be here. She is not the “blacksheep of the family” but she is different from the other kids. That is the point I made in the update. While we did not have these issues with our sons we always thought they were the ones who were different, and that she was more the norm. We recognized that for whatever reason we were blessed to have never had issues with our sons and they never saw us as anything other than their loving parents. If we said something to them they knew it was out of love and concern. We also knew that it was unusual that they never went through the teen angst that most kids display in some way or another. If it were not for our sons we would not have realized our daughter had mental health issues. It was actually one of our sons who alerted us to the fact that she was in trouble at the university she was attending. They had made a visit to see her and one son called us immediately to let us know that we needed to step in. To this day we do not know the details of what they saw but each of her brothers were very concerned. At that point we only knew that school was becoming increasingly difficult for her and she sounded off on the phone several times. When the calls stopped and she only texted we started to put many things together. She had admitted that her partying and behavior had gotten out of control and when given the opportunity to return to her former school it was her decision not to return. At that point she was already diagnosed and on medication. She seemed to be doing very well and was making great strides in her personal and academic life. She often said that she was happy to be home and that she had no desire to return to campus living. She did discuss getting a place in her senior year so that she could prepare for independant living upon graduation. We were very supportive of this and felt like she was thinking things through.
It was never our idea or hope to have a college age child live at home. We sent her off at 17 and never expected that she would be home at the end of that year. We already had three away so this was all new to us. </p>
<p>As far as my name momma-three, as yet another poster has inquired about this…I used this name on another blog where momma-four was already taken. I was new to this site and I did not want to have too many names to remember. There is nothing more to it than that. I also felt at the time that my one son was already away at college and I was not discussing anything about him at the time. I only had three other kids to launch and felt that our identity would be easily discovered if I spoke about our first son. As it turns out I have said very little about son1 or anyone in our area would know who I was. I am not that complicated folks but I have tried to keep some privacy about my identity. Our family is a bit unusal in that I have three sons and one daughter and our three sons have done well up to this point. Further info would clearly make all four kids identities obvious.</p>
<p>Our daughter is beginning school again in just a couple of short weeks, and she does not have an apartment and is still living at the boyfriends house. She has gone through her money that she needed to keep her overdraft open. These things are no big deal taken out of the context of everything else, but with our daughter it has always meant alot to her to have money in her savings and in her pocket. This is our daughter who was always very careful with money and enjoyed saving and having a nest egg. I understand that she is not at home and needs more money than what she needed when she was at home but than how is she planning to make it on her own with no support and part time low paying jobs. I seem like I am entrenched in her life but how could I not be when things just don’t seem to be ringing up that she could make it on her own. I have made it known that she has money that she is welcomed to take but she has not said that she wants it…this is all very confusing. </p>
<p>I also think her boyfriend is a wonderful young man even though I have not particularly agreed with how he has handled all of this. He was always like part of my family and I find it interesting that my daughter is back with him. He is the type of young man that a parent would hope their daughter would be attracted to. He is loving, kind, intelligent and a great friend to my daughter. They have known each other for many years and they understand each other very well. I know how he feels about my daughter and I trust him. He has grown up much in the past two years and he seems to be sure about what he wants. </p>
<p>I am shaken again because school is beginning and there seems to be no plan as to where she is living and how she is going to do this. She is 19 not 21 or 22 and her emotional age is more like a younger teenager. We are happy that she has her AA degree but that will not get her a good paying job. I know that alot of the behavior seems like it may be normal leaving the roost behavior but this is not normal. I can’t explain that so well in words without telling every detail of her behavior but it is just not normal.</p>
<p>My opinion…</p>
<p>On everything in Paragraph 1…I totally get it, I really do. Frustrating to watch. Had your D been in high school, I’d understand your intervention. But she is in college and typically would be living away from home where you can’t intervene and control her actions as much as in high school. And I think it is hard for a kid who has been away to move home and go back to “high school mode” where mom intervenes on the the stuff they are doing. So, I know it is hard to watch but your kid is now in college and this stuff is not the stuff a mom would normally oversee anymore. </p>
<p>Now, you say she is going back to school in the fall…I assume locally. GREAT news. She has no money and you have no clue where she is going to live. I have to wonder why you are not paying her expenses while in school. When she went to school out of state, you paid, right? And when she lived at home, you paid to support her, right? It seems to me that no matter where she lives, if you committed to support her financially as she is a student, that should continue. Otherwise, an unspoken message is inferred that her parents will only support her in college if living at home or doing what they want. I would not wait for her to ask for money. I would send her a check for living expenses if she is enrolled in college. If not in college, different story. I also would give her her OWN money and not wait for her to ask for it. I would get it to her any way possible…Fed Ex (sign for it) or through her brothers. If your D is simply striking out on her own to live independently while going to college, I do not see that as the problem. I think she should be doing that . </p>
<p>To me the issue is trying to repair the relationship and get back on track to stay connected and to let her know you will support her as she goes to college and would like her to keep in touch as to what is going on in her life and so on and that you are there for her and are not mad at her. </p>
<p>I realize your sons are different. Yes, your D’s behaviors are more frustrating and she is not an easy child. I understand that is difficult.</p>
<p>Talk it over with your family group. They’ll have very good thoughts and experiences to share regarding the money issue, and how best to approach the “detach with love” philosophy with your daughter.</p>
<p>Keep going back. It works if you work it, and you’re worth it. Continued hugs and prayers from here.</p>
<p>"Yes, I know that in one post I had mentioned that I asked her to be home early. She had already been gone for a long weekend and had come home, showered, and was back out. It did not seem unreasonable at the time to ask that she come home early because she was starting her class the next day and needed to wake up very early. "</p>
<p>Your daughter is no longer a child, and needs to be held responsible for her behavior. IMO this means that if you’re footing the college bills, you get to set a reasonable gpa for her to maintain for you to continue paying for college. It doesn’t mean, however, your establishing rules about her sleeping habits or waking her up for school.</p>
<p>A big part of growing up is learning how to handle one’s responsibilities while also doing other things including socializing in the evening. Virtually everyone learns this by trial and error.</p>
<p>If your daughter gets in late and oversleeps, she’ll miss class and then will either cut back on her evening socializing or will flunk the class and then will lose your financial support.</p>
<p>Your allowing this to happen isn’t being uncaring: It’s allowing your adult offspring to take on adult responsibilities and to handle the consequences when she drops the ball.</p>
<p>"I am shaken again because school is beginning and there seems to be no plan as to where she is living and how she is going to do this. "</p>
<p>She’s not going to be living in the streets. She’ll probably move in with friends or ask to move back home. If the latter occurs, it will be up to you to let her know about house rules, and it will be up to her whether to accept them.</p>
<p>I suggest house rules that are reasonable and age appropriate, not rules designed to force her to do what she needs to handle college. To me, such rules would be what I’d expect of a long term adult guest: pitching in and doing chores like the rest of the family; letting parents know where you’re going and when you’ll be back; calling if you’ll be back later than you’d said.</p>
<p>I would no more set a curfew for an adult offspring than I would for an adult guest. I also don’t offer wake-up service to anyone.</p>
<p>"I seem like I am entrenched in her life but how could I not be when things just don’t seem to be ringing up that she could make it on her own. I have made it known that she has money that she is welcomed to take but she has not said that she wants it…this is all very confusing. "</p>
<p>She needs to figure things out on her own, and she probably will do that if you don’t jump in to solve things for her. Her bank statement is not your business. Of course, you care about her finances, but you have no right to be opening her mail, and your doing so is only adding greatly to your stress while not helping her at all.</p>
<p>Many people – including responsible-appearing adults – wait until the last minute to solve challenges. Obviously, this isn’t how you operate, and it would be a very stressful way for you to operate, , but there are many people who do run their lives like this, and feel it causes them less stress than your method would.</p>
<p>I am speaking as the 21 year old living at her parents house that I am, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think you are putting your D in a hard spot. I live with my parents during the summer (and I did year round when I was 18 and 19 and a commuter student) and it sucks because it is humiliating to tell my friends when they get off work at 11pm that I can’t go out with them because it’s too close to my curfew. It is extremely frustrating and my parents rules, while reasonable, make me feel claustrophobic. My mom says nothing good happens after midnight anyway and to be home by 1am-- that was true when I was in high school, but now that I am older and people work all day NOTHING happens until nighttime. It’s incredibly frustrating to be missing out on everything because I have a curfew. HOWEVER the one redeeming factor is that if I hate it that much, I can go live on my own. There is no reason why I couldn’t do that. I stay here because, rules and all, it is more convenient and practical-- but I know in the back of my mind that if it became unbearable I COULD leave, and that gives me enough peace to stay. If your daughter is so mentally ill and immature that she does not have that “out” of the situation at home, you are really trapping her-- her choices are to live a lifestyle that feels demeaning, reasonable or not that is how it feels at times to be this age and living like a high schooler at home, or move out and be independent even though she does not possess the life management skills to be successful in that endeavor. She needs a middle ground in there somewhere that gives her the independence she needs while still receiving support for the skills she doesn’t have, it can’t be all one way or the other. Although my attitude is generally that it is a privilege to still be allowed in the family home as an adult and I have no room to complain about the rules, I think in your situation a compromise of some sort may be the most productive thing for the family unit as a whole, for you, and for your D. Now that she is already out of the house this is really not much of an issue now, all you can do is offer your help if she wants it and wait for her to ask, but I suppose this is food for thought for the future if she does come home.</p>
<p>I think momma-three is very brave to post her situation here. The posts have been very well meaning, but I think it is early days for some of the advice to be taken to heart by her. She is still in the initial grieving stages, for the life that she wanted and dreamed of for her daughter.</p>
<p>That said, I will also chime in and agree with the advice re: curfews. I dropped out of college when I was 20 due to depression issues. I lived at home, and was living off of my savings while I regrouped and tried to figure out what was next.</p>
<p>I would stay out late with my friends. And when my mother attempted to enact a curfew, it prompted me to pack up my car and move to New England, where I had friends from high school. I ended up camping on their couch for a few months and got a decent starting position in an industry I still work in. I also was married about a year later, to someone who was a really bad choice. Partly because I hadn’t worked out some of my issues yet.</p>
<p>So my move was a mixed bag. I’m happy with where I am now, and I made out pretty well in the long run. But the whole flight north was precipitated by a curfew issue.</p>
<p>Your daughter and her boyfriend both sound like bright kids. That makes it hard to believe there is not a plan for her as he heads back to college.</p>
<p>I have to agree with Soozie, if you were providing support before why would you stop now?</p>
<p>As parents we walk a fine line. It seems so possible here to create harmony by supporting her decision not to live at home, offering some support, sending her the money that is hers and accepting a different kind of relationship with her in which you support her independence.</p>
<p>^^^^^ To all the posters who have mentioned the money. I would gladly give it to her but it seems pretty obvious for whatever reason that she does not want it. I would give it to her but she has not asked. I have offered to give it to her the last time she saw her brothersl. She told them that she did not want it yet and would let me know when she did. I am paying her tuition, therapy, medication and cell phone bills.</p>
<p>OK, it is good that she knows you will continue financial support if she is in college this coming year no matter WHERE she lives (meaning room/board like she once had when she lived in a dorm). I would still write a letter to her about all this. Ask her to keep you abreast of her plans for the coming year and mention you will pay all her living expenses as you did when she went away to school. Mention that you support her choices and are there for her, but just want her to stay in contact and let her know you are not angry and just want an update of her plans and you will finance it if she is enrolled in school. I don’t personally feel a kid has to formally ask for the money but send her money to cover room/board, or whatever you paid for her at her first school away from home. Perhaps she is not sharing the plans if she suspects disapproval and that is why you need to let her know she has your full parent support (emotional), as well as financial. It appears you know she is enrolled in college for next year and so you know some of her plans. I hope you can connect with her and ask her to, as a courtesy, share her plans with you, no questions asked.</p>
<p>For now, I would send a letter, but I would hope you can have an in person meeting and if needed, have a third party present, as there are some sensitive feelings on both sides of this. I’d ask her to send a text or something on a regular basis to just let you know she is fine.</p>
<p>I am paying the expenses mentioned but I am not paying for board. She knew this when she came home from school that board was on her. She will need to take loans if she chooses to live out of the house. One of my sons have worked through school and paid for his boarding and the two others paid half of their board and took the rest out in loans. As is we paid almost full tuition room and board for her first year away ar school.</p>
<p>Whatever the deal is, Soozie’s thoughts about writing a letter to confirm your emotional support, and financial support to the best of your ability, would probably go a long way towards showing you are not angry and that you accept her need (and yours!) for her to live on her own. You want her back, I think this is what it will take.</p>
<p>M3- You are such a loving mom. I have been reading this thread and I feel for you for what you are going through. So many of us are in varying degrees of releasing parental control of our children and it is so hard! </p>
<p>I think you are right in letting her come to you not only for the money but also when she is ready to be right with you and the rest of the family; basically, to grow up. With the strong family base you provided her she will come back. She may just need time to decide who she wants to be and what she wants to do. </p>
<p>She is very young and may benefit from a gap year. That is not a bad idea.</p>
<p>momma-three…obviously we all handle financial support of our kids differently and so I am not judging this. However, I am wondering if your D were to have stayed at her first college, would you have continued to pay room/board there? If so, I wonder why that would change now with the second college. Your D may be interpreting that as a negative consequence for not living at your house. It seems that you prefer for her to live at your house and are upset if she doesn’t and if she doesn’t, you will not pay her room/board. I’m not saying this is true or even passing judgement but am simply saying that she may infer that as a form of control and that you don’t support her living on her own while in college.</p>
<p>I think she needs to know you will support her emotionally if she lives on her own and then it is obviously your choice whether to pay her related expenses while she stays enrolled in college. I know I would but obviously each person feels differently on this. But I know you did support her fully at her first school and so she may wonder why the change. </p>
<p>I am so sorry for this “rift” and really hope you both can get together to talk and perhaps start that with a letter and also talk with another party present. Perhaps her brothers could be there. The idea would be about moving forward and letting D know you are there for her and support new decisions she is making and care about her welfare and want to know she is OK by her checking in and that you won’t be telling her what to do or to come home. </p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>