<p>Momma-three- granted your D is behaving badly. But I still come back to what is the end result you are looking for?
Is it possible for your D to fully fund living on her own while attending the local 4 yr college? Or will she be forced to take on more work? Will taking on this work have an effect on her success in school? If the answer is she will not do well in school having to work more you are setting her up for failure. You can then say I told you so.
Do you want her to succeed or do you want to be right? I would try to come up with some compromise between living at home with full support versus living in an apartment with no support. If there is absolutely no money available from you for her to live on her own be upfront with her. Talk to her like she is an adult versus like she is a spoiled child. Even if you believe she is behaving like a spoiled child. Explain that while you wish you could help support her in an apartment that financially it just is not doable for your family at this time. Don’t bring up all the money she has wasted in the past.
I have a friend who had a similar issue with her son, including the issue of bringing a GF into their home for sex while they were out. They gave him the choice our rules or leave. He left. For 8 yrs they rarely saw him though they lived in the same small city. One night they were out to dinner and ran into him with a girl. They introduced themselves and the GF who he was living with at the time said "I had no idea that “John’s” parents lived in town. My friend was heartbroken. After that time she worked hard to rebuild the relationship. It has been slow going. Her son is now 30. He has a 2 yr degree but nothing more. He was an AP Scholar in HS. They still pray for him but have learned to love him even though he doesn’t live the same lifestyle they do.
I also say all of this as someone who once had a rocky road with one of my kids. We are now very close and talk every day. I had to let go.</p>
<p>just wondering what the rest of the family does when your d speaks disrespectfully to you. seems the mother daughter dynamic is stuck in a groove, as noone else appears to be challenging her. (forgive me if I missed that) perhaps if her brothers and dad offered their perspective hearing her disrespect and expectations, she might “hear it” differently. if they are being silent this seems unfair to you, as it leaves you as bad cop.</p>
<p>I may be off here, but on some level I saw her returning to your home with her brothers and leaving and returning again an hour later as an attempt to reconnect, albeit handled poorly by her. She went right back into belligerent mode and absolutely should have been called on her behavior, and told that her resuming that position demonstrates and reinforces why things need to change. but if you were still waking her for classes it is highly unlikely she is ready to be the adult on her own out there. is there a way to discuss this with her, citing her ADD, ie. “I have parented you based on what I felt you needed given your ADD, it was not to control you. I see now clearly that wasn’t working. you say you need less hovering, and I say I need more respect…how can we get there?” I had a similar conversation about handing the torch to my d, and it was able to be heard differently, she could see why she was parented differently and wanted to step up to the plate herself.</p>
<p>Cardinalfang, I completely agree with you that parenting a kid with ADD and depression or any other difficulty requires a constant balancing, and different level of involvement than a typical kid , and it is challenging to know how to pull back at times. and hard for the ADD kid to accept the ongoing support due to need for independence. I have two out of three kids w ADD, and while I agree they mature more slowly and differently, they still need us to hand the torch to them or at least share holding it. imho needing mom to wake a college student still seems like enabling to me. at what point would they be ready to wake to an alarm clock? My youngest (ADDer) woke to his alarm clock starting in kindergarten, and both ADDers were expected to gradually take on more responsibility with homework, papers etc. in elementary school.</p>
<p>“Each kid is different…” CF and I agree…totally. (amazing considering other issues). I have read so much advice–some that I consider good and some no so good. But here is what I want to add draw a line in the sand and you are done. And that is not good. Is she a brat who never had responsibilities growing up? Possibly. Pick your battles. Dirty room? Close the door. No clean clothes? Sorry honey. BF in your bedroom watching tv (or whatever)? Possibly up for discussion. Sleeping over? NIMH. </p>
<p>My daughter, who was VERY difficult as a teen, recently commented that with or without a tight leash she would have grown up to be the delight that she is…not modest but true. The delightful part now. If you are rigid in all things (IMO) you will lose in the end. </p>
<p>As for my comment about the women controlling the home: I let it stand as I said it.</p>
<p>Regarding parenting an ADD child- My middle child is the most easy going person. He is the No worries kid. But I do have to worry. He is the one who never gives himself enough time, doesn’t always get up for class, forgets to check his email,refuses to use his ADD meds, just poor time management skills. But he also has the personality of it will all work out. He drives me crazy. I am organized and I need to know what is coming next. He is my child that I am so happy is not living at home this summer. He is also the kid who is clueless in lifeskills regarding renting an aprtment and all it means. Cable, internet , utilities. But he is also my kid who asks for very little. He uses very little money compared to my other two.
I would have talks till I was blue in the face with him about getting up for class on time, using the resource center at school, giving himself enough time to get to work. My H would laugh and just remind me that I was making myself crazy and even when my S promised to do it differently the next time it wasn’t going to happen. I had to give up my expectations. When I had expectations I usually ended up disapointed. And there have been many times I have asked my S to do something in a certain way or at a certain time knowing that I was asking it of the wrong person. I ended up angry and upset. I had a good friend give me this advice, it was something like this- Why do I keep going to the hardware store to buy bread, when I know the hardware store doesn’t stock bread. I set myself up to be disapointed.</p>
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Well that’s the idea, isn’t it. The daughter will have an epiphany while she contemplates the answers to these questions.</p>
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<p>Emphatically, NO! This is absolutely not true.</p>
<p>You could do everything right in the world and never make one single mistake as a person and still “lose your daughter.” You could do everything wrong in the entire book, short of abuse, and in some cases including abuse, and “keep your daughter.”</p>
<p>We believe that parents are responsible for everything, but a relationship contains at least two people, and you have a whole lot of other people in this mix when you add in the entire family. Just NO></p>
<p>The worst part about this is that you taking all the responsibility for whether or not you “lose” your daughter takes ALL the responsibility off of her. She is an adult and you have done more for her than you had to by a loooong shot.</p>
<p>I really believe, more than anything else, more than engaging with your daughter, you need to figure out what you want out of YOUR life, besides a different daughter, and just start living that life. Honestly.</p>
<p>We love to criticize helicopter parents, whatever they are, and then we also hold the mom responsible when the daughter just needs to get her life together. It is emphatically not your responsibility to spend any more time on this. If she comes to you and asks for help, asks, not demands? You can think about the request and decide if it is something you are willing to do or want to do. Until she asks? You are out of it.</p>
<p>Good luck. She’s a master manipulator and the minute you start to think of anything else she shows up at the dinner table to blame you for her problems. I’m not too into that.</p>
<p>Let me preface this by saying I have no experience with parenting a kid with ADD.</p>
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<p>I can tell you that my sister-in-law who is now 49 still expects to be woken up. She and her father and mother are entrenched in the same old battles they have been fighting for decades. I long ago stopped expecting anything to change. She acts like a child and they treat her like one. If she ever grew up I think her parents would be lost, at this point they need her to be not functional.</p>
<p>I see the OP and her daughter locked into old patterns of behavior. Having the same old fight you’ve had for years is unproductive and the dynamics can drag on indefinitely. Since your daughter has ADD maybe she needs some extra consideration. That makes it trickier and maybe you’ll need to continue to help some. But she won’t grow up until she has to.</p>
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<p>I know what an apartment costs where I live. I guess I thought it was common knowledge, but I guess I am wrong.</p>
<p>I guess I am more mature than most people. I thought most people who are adults know what things relatively cost. Maybe it was because I made money early on in life and actually paid for my things and learned the value of a dollar.</p>
<p>Ellebud, we’ve had our disagreements on certain issues, but I frequently agree with you on other issues. :)</p>
<p>Lindz, I agree with you as well about handing over the torch. In fact, Momma-three’s daughter is snatching the torch out of her hands. Now Momma-three has the difficult task of negotiating an adult to adult relationship with her daughter. If there’s a possibility of daughter returning to live at home, Momma-three needs to communicate what is expected of any adult living in her home.</p>
<p>Let me start with the fact that I have 3 kids with ADD. I have ADD. We have never used (nor permitted our kids to use) the ADD as the reason for failure and giving up. There are ways to navigate around issues and tackle challenges in a different way. (There is an obnoxious alarm clock that rings and bounces all over the floor for example.) Children can be very difficult. Some have challenges other than ADD. </p>
<p>Parents can screw up, just like their kids. It’s what we learn along the way that help us all to develop. But, if despite your best efforts to mature and change, to negociate issues, you “lose” your daughter you are not a failure.</p>
<p>Let me give you the opposite scenario: There are kids, children of drug addicts, prostitutes, who despite everything, get themselves safely through to adulthood. Does that make those parents “good” or “successful” parents? No. It makes the kids survivors. During my childhood I knew children who were survivors of the Holocaust. The horrors they saw…but somehow they grew up, became parents and successful adults. (Yes, I know that there was lots of fall out. But they survived.) There are kids who got everything: good and loving parents who were there and helped them through…and they became addicts. These were good parents and something went wrong. </p>
<p>You cannot control (like running criminal checks, D and Bs, following and worrying 24/7 about your daughter) the world. You can learn to control your fears of the world. This will make you a better human being and mother. Having an out of control kid does NOT make you a failure.</p>
<p>Hugs</p>
<p>cardinal I agree. but momma3’s d is not acknowledging that there was a torch, not showing appreciation to her mother, for how much she has helped her. but at the same time, not acknowledging she still needs support. momma3—perhaps a letter to your d with your hopes, so you can say what you need without the intensity of the face to face confrontation. wish you and her the best.</p>
<p>Maybe a couple of sessions of family therapy for mom and D? Sounds like they need a referee.</p>
<p>CF: Agree with the idea of therapy. If D is willing to go and participate it might help. If not, go alone to help you through this.</p>
<p>I am far from afraid of the world…just afraid of the choices my daughter has made. If I saw her make logical, mature, and thoughtful choices I would relax a great deal. She has a history of making some really stupid mistakes that have cost her some good friends and relationships. As my sons would say “she just does not connect in any real way with people.” She almost seems out of touch with how her actions effect others or lack there of. She views events of two weeks ago as happening a long time ago. If she slept with one guy and dated another three weeks later her response would be that was a long time ago what is the big deal. That is just an example of the type of unusual behavior that is either ADD related or not. It is behavior that I just can’t explain. How can she put her feelings in a box and hang them on a shelf and imagine that they do not exist? She showed signs of this early on but now that she is older her mantra seems to be “I do what I want”. I have heard her say this and I just can’t stand hearing this from her.</p>
<p>I think family therapy would not help. Sounds like Mamma-three was already going to her daughter’s therapy sessions. It’s clear to me the daughter needs to live her own life on her own terms. We raise our kids the best we can, but when the become adults we need to stop wanting to change them or fine tune them. </p>
<p>The DD has her own values and mores, they may not match her mother’s but they don’t need to. She may be immature and impacted by ADD, but she’s an adult and she is not going to fundamentally change. So these two can not live together, their relationship will be much better when the daughter has her own life and mom doesn’t have to live through watching DD do things she doesn’t approve of on a daily basis and daughter doesn’t feel constantly judged.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t favor family therapy at this point. Right now, from what we’ve been told, I just don’t see any interest in the daughter in coming to a tolerably mature mutual accommodation with momma-three. </p>
<p>I still favor individual therapy for momma-three to help cope with what the daughter has done and seemingly is going to continue to do.</p>
<p>There are other significant psychological issues here beyond ADD and a mother’s anxiety. I am not a psych professional, so I will keep my ideas to myself. But I do hope that a competent therapist is involved soon.</p>
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<p>Getting a dose of reality now…which is what she needs!</p>
<p>mafool: Thank you for saying what I was thinking.</p>
<p>Is it also possible that your D has always seen herself as the one who messes up. It might appear to your D that you favor her B’s. If they have followed the rules of the family and it appears that they have gone to well regarded colleges and she is back at the CC and entering a local state school.Did she chose to go on to the local 4 yr school or did you decide that was what she should do? What is her relationship with her Dad?
I think we have to remember that there are many different paths. Your D might blossom when she is away from her family. Your D’s poor behavior might also be her way of dealing with her family. She might harbor the feeling that whatever she does it will never be enough.
I have found the most healing with my child once I realized my side of the street was not so clean. Until you begin to acknowledge the part you play in the drama things will not get better.</p>