<p>First, momma-three says her D has already been treated for ADHD and is on medication I believe. Even if ADHD has correlation with other behaviors, it doesn’t mean that all the issues with this particular kid can be attributed to that. And even if ADHD is part of the problem, it only means she needs MORE limits. </p>
<p>momma-three, your husband’s notion that keeping your D living at home will keep her safer is rather blind to reality. The fact is that she currently lives at home and is allowed to do whatever she wants and in fact stayed out until 3 AM drinking and drove with a drunk driver. How did living at home keep her any safer than living on her own?</p>
<p>Honestly, as soon as I read the beginning part of your latest anecdote, I had a reaction. My reaction is based on what we expect with our daughters who don’t even have behavior problems. When my kids lived at home (granted it was in high school) but even when they visit here as young adults (they are currently 22 and 24), they tell us their plans and when they expect to be home and know to call if they are running later than they said or to call if they are driving some distance and we want peace of mind of knowing when they left to come home and when exactly to expect them. They communicate when they will be home and any changes are called in so that we do not worry. They do this out of respect and it is an expectation and limit that has always been there. They don’t stay out until 3 AM when visiting us but the larger point is that we know where they are, when they will be home and they call in any changes or call us when they are leaving where they are to let us know the time they set out for home so to know when to expect them. It seems to me that you set NO limits and that your D doesn’t have to let you know when she will be home, where she’ll be in case of emergency, and to call to let you know if she is running late. I would never ever go for that. I could not live with that and would worry too much. When they live on their own, as my kids do, they don’t tell me their every move and when they are planning to be home but when they are under my roof, they do. So, I really feel PART of the problem you are having and your frustration is that you set NO limits while she lives at home. </p>
<p>As far as paying her expenses if she goes to college and lives outside the home…pay rent and food like you would at college. She can’t squander that as she won’t make it. She can earn her own spending money. You can’t control if she parties. She is an adult. If she fails a course, then she pays the make up. If she fails a semester, you no longer pay tuition. The idea that you feel that giving her some living expenses will allow her to party is rather blind…she lives under your roof and parties anyway.</p>
<p>Your D really needs to live on her own now. That is the objective. She needs to be responsible for herself and grow in independence as she is an adult. As well, there will be less frustration and conflict in your home.</p>
<p>I am glad you understand that the underlying ADHD is not the salient issue for your daughter at the present time. Her behavior is out of control, and is dangerous. You are correct that this should be your focus. But I also agree that your husband’s fear that she will continue to make bad choices (which she will, unless she wants to change or has a reason or need to change these behaviors) should not be a reason to let her stay in your home. She probably made these bad choices when she lived at the bf’s parents this summer, but you didnt see it day to day. And you and your family were probably better off for that. This is all very hard and very painful, and I am sorry you are going through this. But you sould rteady to no longer let her manipulation impact you/your choices. Hopefully your husband can get here too. Good luck.</p>
<p>momma-three,
Let me add that when your kids live away from home, you are not privy to all the things they do. This can be a good thing. They are adults and make their own choices, some of which we may not approve of. When your D handed her papers in late to her college in December, momma-three, you ordinarily would not have known this if she was living on her own. Staying out to 3? You ordinarily would not have known this is she was living on her own. I don’t know every single thing my kids do when they don’t live at home (though they share a lot). I think your nerves will be more settled if she is independent and living her life and making choices and living with the consequences of her own choices. If she uses rent money to pay for partying, she’ll have a problem and don’t bail her out (though you could pay the rent directly to the landlord). It is time for your D to be on her own and not have to account to a parent for every decision and move she makes. When she is under your roof, however, she should have to account to when she will be home and stuff like that. But your life will be better if you allow your D to live like an adult on her own, which she needs to do for herself, not only for your benefit. It is a win win the way I see it. Better for her and better for you too.</p>
<p>Absolutely agree, soozievt. We crossposted. Said the same thing in post #310. We parents are probably better off for not knowing all the things our teenage/young adult kids choose to do.</p>
<p>momma-three, I am so sorry for the chaos and pain that you and your family continue to suffer. I hope that this latest incident hardens your resolve to have your daughter live independently. As soozievt points out, living at home is not keeping her safe from her own poor choices and “stupid mistakes”. Living at home does keep you, your husband, and sons embroiled in the drama she creates. Your daughter has demonstrated again and again that you cannot control her behavior and I do not mean that as criticism. Neither you nor any parent can control the behavior of a young adult offspring.</p>
<p>My daughter has been asked to stay with a friend temporarily until she finds a place. She will get one month rent and a security deposit and this is the result of telling me to go F myself this morning. She said she “does not have to call us to tell us anything.” My husband knows now that I will move out if my daughter continues to live here. I can no longer live with this child whos seemingly only desire is to hurt us whenever she wants. It is like living with a time bomb and I never know when she will explode. I am officially done and she can go. The abuse is out of control and today it is only my husband and I home with her still carrying on upstairs. If this continues the police will be called.</p>
<p>Soosievt…We have set limits she does not feel she owes us any respect or curtesy. Last night I tried reaching her to see if she was staying out (which I would prefer knowing ahead of time so that I could sleep) Today that request has landed me another bashing with her mouth and her throwing her stuff around upstairs. You can’t understand this because it is not what a typical young adult would do. I have trouble understanding it and it has been going on for a long time.</p>
<p>momma-three
I am so sorry your daughter continues with her tirades, and congrats on setting the limit. Hopefully you and your DH can get on the same page with this so your daughter doesn’t engage in what is called splitting. If she can manipulate the two of you to disagree about how to deal with her, the chaos will continue. Also, I am sure you know this, but please do NOT give her the rent or deposit money. Let her know that when she has found a place to let you know who the landlord is, and that you will send the deposit and first mos rent directly to the landlord. That way you can reduce the probabilit that the money will be spent elsewhere, and also you will ensure that she has at least 2 mos of living arrangements. Stay strong. If she refuses to comply with that, she doesnt get the money. You make the rules, not her.</p>
Good for you momma-three, and I hope you stick to this. I am making a guess that you have been the one who has born the brunt of your daughter’s behavior, and have been sort of shielding the rest of the family from the worst of her. If your H starts to relent, and feeling sorry for her, you need to leave so he can truly feel the full force of the abuse. That will resolve the splitting.</p>
<p>momma-three, I am so sorry, truly. I do think it is best to lay down the limit and consequences. It is harder to do when she has gotten away with it for so long. As I said, my kids know they they must inform us of their whereabouts when staying with us and what time they’ll be home and to call if that time is going to change or be delayed and if the travel is beyond very local, to actually call as they leave the place where they are at. I would not let my kid go out without that understanding, nor have the car, and if she can’t comply, then your D doesn’t have to live under your roof as those are the conditions. I understand that she might not want to have to call you but if that’s what she wants, the answer is simple…live on her own like other kids her age! My kids don’t have to account to me when they live away from home in this way. Your D wants her cake and to eat it too…live at home but get to come and go and not be accountable like kids who live independently. It is so much better for her at this age to live on her own. More peace for you but truly, this is what she NEEDS. Time to grow up and be responsible. </p>
<p>Agree that rent money should be paid directly to the landlord. If she is in school, continue to pay rent and food (in my opinion) and if not in school, give her two months expenses until she finds a job to support herself. I do not pay my kids’ expenses when not in school…never in the summers during college as they lived away from home and not since the day of graduation. My kids knew this and have managed just fine. Your D will be forced to do so and those expectations are age appropriate. </p>
<p>Your D’s disrespect of you is very frustrating and difficult to live with. It has a level of immaturity to it as well. But she knows she can get away with it. I am glad you put your foot down. The way she spoke to you needs consequences if it is an ongoing thing and it sounds like it is. She doesn’t like your rules and so it is time to live on her own and make her own rules. </p>
<p>Again, I would financially support my kid if in school and I know you have differed on that point but I think you were willing to pay her expenses while in school under your roof and at her LAC and did so for your sons. The objective is to get her out of the house living on her own. If she is not in school, she should pay, however. I would not remove financial support if she is in college still. It may set her up for failure. You are trying to help her succeed and become an independent young adult college student.</p>
<p>One more thing…you see a therapist yourself, yes? I would make sure to get into one this week and get some support and guidance in handling this challenging situation. If your husband is willing to also go, that would help too but go yourself no matter what. I also do not know if you have contact with your D’s therapist but you may wish to update her.</p>
<p>momma-three, I’m signing in to add another sending-good-thoughts-your-way post (further to my PM). You are so strong and inspirational in such a difficult time, and I hope you will come back and post in a couple years when maybe things will be looking a lot brighter for your daughter and your relationship with her. </p>
<p>I am really struck by what Merlin said a few pages back about your daughter not yet being her complete self. It’s a work in progress, and I too am really impressed with the decision you’re making — you are still loving and supporting your daughter but balancing that with not putting up with the disrespect and immature behavior any longer. Good luck.</p>
<p>If you are no longer going to take financial responsibility for your daughter’s missed therapy appointments (which is a good thing) you should put that in writing and send it to your daughter’s therapist so it is documented in her records. You might also want to add a note, as soozie recommended, that DD will be living elsewhere and she should, at her next appointment, provide the therapist with her updated contact information. But if your dau did not sign a release of infromation allowing the therapist to communicate with you, you will not likely hear back from the therapist.</p>
<p>Hang in there This is hard, but you are doing the right thing. Your dau will likely push back hard, because she doesnt want things to change, and until now you have backed down when she turns up the burners. Not this time. Stand firm.</p>
<p>Forgot to mention-- if you do choose to provide your dau with a month or 2 of living expenses outside of rent (assuming she isn’t in school fulltime) don’t give it to her all at once. High probability it will disappear quickly, and not for the things you want it going to. You can give her maybe 2 weeks (if appropriate) and tell her to provide you with an address for you to send a check at the end of the month… or somethinbg like that. If she wants it she has to cooperate. If she chooses not to, that is her choice. Hopefully she will get her act together and her behavior will changes . This is the age that braiin maturation completes (early 20’s) so yes, she isnt, and most young adults, arent fully “cooked” yet, as it were. Russell Barkley, a well-known expert on ADHD, does often say that people with ADHD are often about 2 yrs behind in emotional maturation. But as you have said, you are aware that her current behaviors are not primary ADHD behaviors. Her ADHD is being managed. Her behavior is not. Good luck</p>
<p>You’ve been given some good advice here by seasoned professionals.</p>
<p>I’d like to add a couple pieces of advice that haven’t been mentioned. Please find an Al-Anon meeting as soon as possible. Al-Anon is full of experienced people who have had to use tough love when it comes to drinking and destructive behaviors. A phone list should be available of regular attendees that you can take home with you and use when your daughter acts out and you need guidance on setting boundaries. Seriously, these people will not think twice about getting a phone call from you in the middle of the night if you’re up and anxious/angry/worried, etc. about her behavior and are tempted to cave in.</p>
<p>Also, if she still has access to your car (which it seems like you’ve threatened in the past to remove her from, but you haven’t held firm to it - how do you know she hasn’t had a spare key made?), I would seriously think about getting an umbrella insurance policy. If she continues to break the law in this regard (even if it’s getting in the car with her boyfriend who is drinking), and an accident occurs, no one will go after her because she has no money. They will come after you. </p>
<p>Also, please clarify your stance on moving out if your daughter doesn’t. Would you really let your own daughter have control over who lives in your house and who doesn’t? Again, please find an Al-Anon meeting… if you’re in a reasonably-sized metropolitan area, you can likely find one tonight. Unfortunately, people at these meetings have seen the equivalent of your daughter’s destructive behavior, and worse in their own lives. My take is, if someone is getting behind a wheel when drunk, they have a drinking problem.</p>
<p>Teriwit^I don’t think she is driving while intoxicated but last night she drove in her boyfriends car who had been drinking…this is unacceptable and risky behavior. I have debated all day whether I should let his mom know that he is driving under the influence. He was just given a car for Christmas and now he is driving after drinking…stupid stupid stupid. In the past I have found pot in my car (daughters car for her use) but that has not happened in a while. She has made extra keys and I have found them around the house. She keeps two on her at all times. </p>
<p>I have gone to meetings and they are very helpful…probably what has given me the strength to make this change. I do get wishy washing at times but not anymore. This is the final straw.</p>
<p>First, let me clarify that I am not a professional in this field. I am simply a parent. I also have not had to deal with a child who exhibits behaviors of this type or at this level. So, I’m just on the outside looking in and of course it is a lot easier sitting where I am and not in your shoes. </p>
<p>Debrockman, while I think it can be helpful for parents who have dealt with problem behaviors to offer some advice as “having been in those shoes,” by the same token, while you have had significant issues dealing with your D, her case is completely different than momma-three’s D. The common link is simply ADHD, challenging behavior, etc. But your D had very different things going on be it eating disorders, a rape, injuring herself, or whatever else you have shared and so the specific issues are NOT the same. You have gone through difficulty with a daughter and that is the common link but the details appear quite different to me. What worked in your case may not apply to this kid. This kid doesn’t sound that troubled to me. She sounds like a kid who needs limits, needs to be responsible and independent, and so on. The mom has not mentioned significant disorders or mental illnesses. So, I’d be careful is stating that X worked with your kid and apply it to this kid. I think the main thing you have in common is that you have been through a rough time with a daughter (thus can commiserate), but so much else differs between the two cases from what I have read. Also, even if doctors found ADHD to be the root of your D’s problems, that doesn’t mean it is true for momma-three’s D, unless her doctors have said so. No matter the cause of her issues, her behaviors need reigning in.</p>
<p>But even if she’s sober and gets in a car with a driver who she knows is obviously drunk and has an accident, she could be (not necessarily will) held responsible.</p>
<p>I don’t have anything to add here, momma-three, but I have been keeping up with this thread and I just wanted to lend my support. Hugs to you. I can’t even imagine going through what you’re suffering and I don’t think any of us truly know what we would or could do unless we were in your position. Hang in there!</p>
<p>I don’t have an answer, but just wanted to say I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Nothing bothers a mom more than something going on with her kids, so I can relate in that effect. I hope you and your husband can figure it out for her sake, as well as your own peace of mind.</p>
<p>^ I agree…it really hurts when people accuse others of something that they may or may not know. I remember a thread of mine that resulted in some very nasty words a while back and it did nothing but bring more unnecessary hurt. We are all parents and unless there is something really clear in a posters voice that indicates a mental problem or alcohol problem, what do we know? I personally find Debrockmans post to be that of a mom who has been through alot with her daughter. It is true that there are differences between her kid and mine but the common link is that we are both moms and we have both been through a rather large upset with our kids. I respect her opinion and hope that we could all learn from each other. Even my situation is something to learn from and I hope that someone reading these posts will not make some of the mistakes in allowing this to go on in their family, for this long. </p>
<p>I too have found myself to be unkind to a particular poster but that situation just really grinded my gears because it stuck me as unreasonable. I was wrong in retrospect because I did’nt live in his shoes and really did’nt know just how much crap he was living with. </p>
<p>I have been deeply touched by the kindness shown to me by every single poster on this thread and that is saying alot considering the number of posters and the fact that none of you know me. Please lets remember to be kind because like me, Debrockman has had her share of trouble. I would not want to be treated by strangers the way my own daughter has treated me. If that were the case the forum would have many empty pages.</p>