<p>momma-three, based on what you wrote in this quote, I feel that I, and some other members, have been misunderstood in our messages. Your D doesn’t act this way BECAUSE she lives at home during college. Of course that is not the reason. I’ve been saying that her behavior toward her parents is unacceptable. But I feel it is in her best interests to be outside the home so she will be forced to take on some independence and responsibility and grow up and hopefully her behavior may improve because she HAS to deal with life on her own like many college kids do. But the other reason to have her out of the home is for your own daily sanity. While under your wing, it is more like a high school-ish situation with your supervision and knowing very move she makes and the daily conflicts are wearing you out understandably. If she were out of your home, you would not be subject to so much of this crap on a daily basis. Some things you just would not know about and otherwise, you might talk once a day or once every couple of days. The dynamics between you will be better as she will be more separate. </p>
<p>I’ll give you one example from my own experience, even though I know it is not a good example because I know my D’s are not like your D and do not have the issues your D has. But I can relate a tiny bit to one single piece…the issue of respect with the parents type stuff. It’s the only piece in your story I have a little experience with. My oldest D has always been the epitome of a respectful person and I have never had to discipline her once ever in her entire life. D2, who is also a wonderful daughter, was strong willed and would be challenging sometimes during the high school years. Yes, at times, she would talk or act disrespectfully. I realized after talking to other moms, that their teen daughters did this sometimes too. I realized that my first D was the unusual one who was always compliant, etc. and that D2 exhibited some behaviors that other teen girls do. I admit, at times, it would drive me nuts. Like you, I’m the same mom to all my kids but each kid is different and so I can’t account for why one kid has never said a disrespectful word in her life and the other kid did. Anyway, D2 left for college at age 16 1/2. What I found was during the college years and since (she is now 22 and been out of college for 1 1/2 years already), this has gotten sooooooooo much better and I attribute it to two things…one is maturity along with independence. The other is that with living away from the home, I just did not have the kind of daily conflicts over every little thing and didn’t know every little thing…and so our phone calls every couple of days are 95% of the time very very pleasant and rarely disrespectful. Once in a while, she may say something or act in a way that I don’t like, but it is far less frequent and she often apologizes soon after. So, I think part of this comes with growing up and becoming an independent young adult and part of it is not being together in daily life where conflicts arise and we just don’t deal with as much of those things as she is on her own and our contacts are catching up on news and stuff like that. So, between maturity, independence, and leading a more separate life outside the home, it just has meant less conflicts and disrespectful behaviors from my experience. I realize I have not dealt with nearly what you have, but just saying that I think if your D were living independent of you, she’d be forced to mature a bit more and also she would have less opportunity for day to day conflicts with you due to not being around one another so much and not having to account to you for everything she does. </p>
<p>poetgrl wrote:</p>
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<p>Very much agree with this. </p>
<p>I think your D will benefit from being on her own like most 20 year olds are who attend college. You surely will benefit from having her out of the home. I’ll add to poetgrl’s “list” that your D also has decent grades. She behaves poorly and treats you poorly and needs an attitude adjustment but she does succeed in some things such as her job, school, and holding down a long term relationship.</p>
<p>^^Yes, you should give yourself credit for getting your D help and also bringing her home and getting her back on track. She still has a way to go but you have gotten her this far and so the next step is supporting her to take the next step on her journey…living in an apartment. It’s time. She couldn’t do it before but she needs to do it now as part of her growth, recovery, etc. Since she goes to college locally, she’ll be living nearby and so this seems like a good step for her to take. Staying in the home is not moving forward in her growth at this point.</p>
<p>^^ I totally agree that she needs to be on her own…I need to make her realize this without her thinking that I am throwing her out or abandoning her. I am not doing either although I must admit I am longing for some peace. Really the primary reason is so we have a shot of her becoming a nice young woman which until she is out on her own she will not find out what works and what does’nt in her relationships. I can’t figure out the long term boyfriend because he is still atound even with her drama. </p>
<p>I guess I will be reading about PTS…Jym do you think that is a possibility? If so please fill me in.</p>
<p>momma-three, I think it is really important that it doesn’t come across that moving out on her own is some sort of “consequence.” You could sit down as a “meeting” with you, your husband, and D (or possibly with a therapist too), and explain that you are proud of the progress she made since coming home from her LAC and that the stay at home was meant to be a transition for her and the goal is to move toward independent living to finish out the college phase of her life so she will be ready to be self supporting once she graduates and this is now the next step. Set up your expectations, outline what you will provide and won’t, any consequences for X, Y, or Z and then help and support her in finding a place to live and set a deadline. Living on her own is not a consequence (albeit your life will be calmer) and is what most kids her age are doing and it is time for her to take this step now that her transition phase is over and she is going to school and so on.</p>
<p>Based on what you have shared with us, and whatnot, it seems that you may have this in a mild form. At any rate, you might bring it up with your therapist. I think it is quite possible, personally, just given the persistence and strength of your reactions and your daily discomfort, when your daughter is no longer in any kind of actual danger, at this point in time.</p>
<p>It’s not a criticism, btw, just an observation, which may be wildly inaccurate, given my limited view into your wider life. Again, good luck.</p>
<p>If she says this to you, and it wouldn’t surprise me if she did, that doesn’t mean that is what she really thinks. It’s more drama that is intended to manipulate you.</p>
<p>My 49 year old sister-in-law, who has some mental problems, routinely accuses my mother-in-law of abandoning her because my sister-in-law is expected to live on her own. It is a lot of drama and hysterics but it would be much worse for everyone to have my sister-in-law living with any of the family members.</p>
<p>She manages, she doesn’t live like I would live, but so what? She gets by and as long as she isn’t living under my roof it isn’t my place to pass judgment.</p>
<p>Momma3 - Did I miss it? What happened this morning when she was still sleeping and not getting up in time for class? Did she ever wake up and get there? Did you get out of the house so you weren’t there for any drama when she eventually woke up?</p>
<p>I am really glad that she found a job right away.</p>
<p>M3-
To be perfectly honest, I think that whether or not you have mild PTSD symptomatology is the least of your worries right now. To answer your question, I am not hearing you talk about any of the “classic” PTSD symptoms (eg exposure to serious events with potential for death or serious injury, recurrent intrusive nightmares, flashes/flashbacks as if it were reoccurring again, sense of a foreshortened future, etc.) Although there is a bit of avoidance of triggers or stimuli that remind you of the “trauma” , it sounds more like you are simply avoiding a conflict with your dau. Your “reliving” of the trauma sounds more like you rehashing what went wrong, etc in a more ruminative fashion. Sometimes we take/own blame in part because if we feel we caused any part of it, then we feel we have some control over “fixing” it, and don’t feel so helpless. YOu have essentially been in an abusive relationship, and that may perhaps be what poetgrl is referring to.</p>
<p>My analogy is this: If you are in the middle of the street and ther eis a truck coming, I want you to get out of the street first. Then we can figure out why you like to play in traffic or live dangerously.</p>
<p>What I mean by that is, deal with first things first. The mose immediate stressor is the conflict between your daughter and the family (or mostly you) and that needs to get addressed. I am hopeful that you have, and will stick with, and action plan to have her live elsewhere. Now. Yesterday. Today. The longer this drags out, the harder it will be, and the same tapes will play over and over. Act now. And.stick.with.your.plan. Every abused spouse thinks their parther will never hurt them again because they are sorry and said they wouldnt. Enough. </p>
<p>I will write more later-- am on the phone right now. Hope this helps for starters.</p>
<p>“Daughter found a new job last night and starts later today.” - That is a really great sign that she can do that, especially in these hard times. </p>
<p>Yes, all the disrespect and avoidance of schoolwork is horrible. But it should make you feel good that she can accomplish that! She will be self-sufficient someday, with or without college. Good luck to you all!</p>
<p>I have two close friends who have gone through something similar. In both cases the girls were using cocaine. The abuse would come on when they were coming down. Both families lives were similar to yours. Hard working girls with other issues. Eating disorders, depression and in one case learning disabilities. The D of one friend had professionals at a well regarded in patient eating disorder treatment center convinced she was not using drugs and her Mom was crazy. The Mom went with her gut and sent her D to a drug treatment center and the D admitted to drug use.
Not saying your D is using drugs but her behavior is definitely the behavior of someone abusing drugs. </p>
<p>Regarding the vacation. I would not tell your D about the trip. She will do whatever it takes to sabotage you at the last minute. I would think twice about planning an expensive trip unless you have the strength to go anyway if your D has a crisis.</p>
<p>Hi there eddie, We are doing better and husband is ready to sit with daughter and plan for her move. I am happy she was able to get a job right away but again I am not sure how she will manage with school, work and social life. My husband is really struggling with the idea of her being gone and having no one to keep tabs on her, so to speak, in regard to her getting everything she needs to do accomplished. I however feel that it is just as important for her to accomplish this aspect of her life (being on her own), simply so she can learn what will work for her in the real world. It is concerning, but like I said we are not that far away so if the need arises we are very close. The new job is close to our house again.I suspect that once she is settled we will hear very little from her unless the need arises. I think given the circumstances that may be OK for now. I hope that her moving out is the answer to solving this problem and that she does not continue to take it all with her. I am still hopeful that she will figure things out and eventually turn things around. So I guess we are doing OK but of course I wish things did not need to be this way…it makes me sad that I really don’t have the daughter that I dreamed of back in the day when I was holding my only little girl and thinking how blessed I was to now have a baby girl. I hope she can find happiness and that things go smoothly during this process.
I guess the way to describe this is numb. I guess it has all been a bit much so I haven’t really digested it all yet. Things should get better.</p>
<p>I’m glad you are taking this step and that your husband is on board, it seems. Your D is not magically all of a sudden going to change. But this step will be beneficial. When you say you won’t be able to keep tabs on her that she does what she needs to do…well, she is 20, and her parents should not be keeping tabs on her to make sure she does what she needs to do. Will she all of a sudden manage to do everything as she ought to? Probably not. But she needs to learn to manage on her own and she will eventually have to learn more and more responsibility. She’s 20 and so it is time. But it won’t happen overnight. Keep in mind it wasn’t going to happen at all if she lived at home with parents overseeing everything though. This is a step in the right direction but won’t be an overnight success. Remember the goal is to move her toward independence and adulthood. Before, there was no movement. Now, there will be but it will take time for her to figure it all out. Also keep in mind that because you love your little girl, you are taking steps to help her become a young woman.</p>
<p>blankmind – it may not be a problem with her roommates. How many of us have heard from parents of other kids how wonderful our kid is when she’s at their house, even when she’s in that awful teen grumps at home? The reality is that she feels in control with her behavior at home – it has been safe so far – and that the dynamic in a roommate relationship could be very different. The fact that she’s successfully held down jobs, and was able to get it together and quickly find a new job says a lot. I would not assume that the family dynamic would necessarily carry over to other situations.</p>
<p>My parents actually helped a girl that sounds a lot like your daughter. She was on online college but she randomly bailed out on it, her life, and her job.</p>
<p>She was very immature and had a lot of emmotional issues (not saying that your daughter does). After she ditched school and wanted to move in with a guy, we found out that she was bipolar.</p>
<p>Her mother sent her to a rehab in California and this girl ran off and went missing! Luckily, a random doctor and his wife found her on a side of the road and persuaded her to go back to rehab. </p>
<p>I think after she gets better, she’ll want to return to college. But, you can’t help a person that doesn’t want to be helped. You know that old saying, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink from it.”</p>
<p>Your daughter is grown up and she can legally make her own decisions. She won’t learn anymore with a spanking (figuratively). You’re just going to have to let her experience the other side and make her own decision. Sooner or later, she will realize that she was being stupid.</p>
<p>M3 - Does she have a better relationship with your hubby at this time in her life? Maybe he is the one that can chat with her once in a while after she moves out…Just an idea.<br>
And I am in agreement with Soozie - my 19 year old daughter just went back to college yesterday. I can’t keep tabs on her work/social/school life and everything that needs to be accomplished. It feels really “freeing” for me, as she has ADD and I practically stood right behind her some nights in order for the homework to be completed, etc. She knows what GPA she needs to keep in order to maintain her scholarship. Granted - she doesn’t have the issues that your daughter has, so I guess I really can’t compare. I was just thinking about it. Maybe you really do need to keep tabs on her - maybe you don’t. What do you think? It might feel good to let go a smidge, if you can.</p>