<p>I doubt that very many people ever check to see if someone is online and so what if you are? This thread is sort of an unusual circumstance because we are all supporting M3 in a real-time situation.</p>
<p>The power has completely been transferred to the daughter and it takes pretty drastic steps to transfer it back to the parents. It is very difficult, but does need to happen for the situation to meaningfully change. I speak from experience.</p>
<p>I hear talk of change, poetgrl, but has there been measurable change? A snails pace? This has been going on for years. The drama of the day changes but the pattern continues.</p>
<p>Don’t know why dau came home from LAC but m3 has said, without giving detail, that she did some pretty bad things and made some pretty bad decisions. And this continues.</p>
<p>I totally agree that m3 needs to take care of herself, and if no one else is going to address the elephant in the living room, she needs to do what she has to do to take care of herself. It is simply painfully sad that she has to be the one to leave, especially if her work is done from her home. It will be disruptive for her, but if that is what she has to do, then so be it. Bit I think there will be more chapters to htis story.</p>
<p>And I am not here in a professional capacity.I am a parent who has raised kids and this morning venting frustration. And hoping for some assertiveness training while they are at it.</p>
<p>That said, when I have difficult patients who are stuck and have a littany of reasons why they wont change, sometimes we use a paradoxical approach to help them get moving. They must of course agree that they are having trouble getting unstuck and want to try a novel approach. They write 3 smallish (say $25) checks to their LEAST favorite organization (like say the John Birch Society or that awful group that protests at military weddings or something) with a cover letter thanking them for their great work and asking ot be put on the mailing list. The leave the letters, checks and stamped envelopes in our office. Then they pick a very small, manafgeable assignment that they agree to to before the nest session (it can be as small as making a list for something). Whatever the goal is, they make it and we review it to be sure it is reasonable and doable. Then, as loing as they do what they said they were going to do (again-- of their choosing and doesnt matter how small), the letters and checks stay in the office. It is only if they don’t follow through that a letter/check goes out. It can be very effective in getting people to take ownership of their choices and let go of the excuses. Very empowering.</p>
<p>Agree that there is a lot of codependence and enabling going on here. But there have been escalating crises here. Maybe the dau will mouth off to the judge in traffic court and he’ll do something!!</p>
<p>** Just ordered 3 boxes of girl scout cookies form a neighbor. I feel better already :)</p>
<p>
Could be.</p>
<p>In order for M-3 to take back her power, MOWC, she first needs to just take care of herself for a while. Just letting go of the rest of it and doing what she needs to do will bring about confrontations, especially with the husband, who is most assuredly going to get ****ed off and try to force her back into her old role of taking care of things the way he wants.</p>
<p>When he realizes that she is not going to do this, when she stands firm in her own decisions for herself, THEN the others will change. If they do not change? She will make other, appropriate choices, for herself.</p>
<p>Some parents (the father) go on for years like this. There is nothing the spouse can do. We really cannot change what other people are doing. The only thing we can change is ourselves.</p>
<p>jym, that approach is sheer genius. It would get my butt in gear, I know. (Note to self: write check to obnoxious charity and send it unless you start doing your elliptical 4 times a week.)</p>
<p>momma-three, I’d like to say this with kindness and sensitivity. I respect that you are in an awful, awful situation. What you’ve done over the past 2 years - and your threads show us that you’ve tried very hard - has not worked to improve the situation. Perhaps now that you see the limits of your ability to control your d’s actions, you’ll make some fundamental changes to protect yourself and preserve your relationships with the other members of your family. Wishing you continued courage (of which you have plenty!) and happier times soon.</p>
<p>frazzled1
Start with a smaller commitment and then build up to a few times a week. Maybe the first goal should merely be to get on the elliptical if that isnt happening yet. Start low, go slow. You want to succeed, so set goals you know you can accomplish. When I want to get back into working out, by first goal/commitment is to put my gym bag inthe car (I usually go after work). If I dont have my workout clothes, I am not going. Baby steps.</p>
<p>Now that said, that “baby steps” approach can occur when there is a health-growth goal, not in the face of crisis management. DIfferent situations call for different interventions. </p>
<p>Maybe things at m3’s house arent as bad as it sounds. Maybe she comes here to vent , as many of us do, and in the bigger picture it isnt all that bad. That would be great, if it were so, and the small baby steps could work. If however, things are in crisis, a stronger intervention may be indicated. My rule-- safety first.</p>
<p>M-3,
No advice, just support for you in this situation. Sounds like you are taking care of yourself which is very important. I hope today brings a positive change for your family.</p>
<p>
I agree, and I remain worried about momma3</p>
<p>
Again I agree. I am getting concerned that this D’s behavior will escalate and there could be a physical lashing out. The accident should have momma3 on HIGH ALERT. This is getting scarey.</p>
<p>M3 - M cubed (lol - that’s how I say it in my head) - Thinking about your family today. Hope it is a good day in your home.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If she is texting and driving, driving while on cell phone or engaging in other activities which cause distraction, how can your statement even be remotely true?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hell would freeze over before I would so much as buy her a gallon of gas if one of my daughters said this to me. DH would know absolutely that if he were to buy her another car, that would be a serious breach within the marriage that might not ever be repaired. And the day I let a grown adult child’s tantrum force me out of my own home would be the day I know it’s time for some therapy and assertiveness training for myself.</p>
<p>I feel very sad for you, m3, but I’m a little concerned with your rather passive response to the abuse your daughter is heaping upon not only you, but the entire family. I really hope you can get the help and support you need to take back control of your household from the tyrant. She of course needs help as well, but first things first.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I winced when I read that also, but some families aren’t as sensitive to kid backtalk. We have friends whose kids were pretty darn lippy to their parents when young and it would just roll off them and some families allow kids to argue with them…different family dynamics. Same as for both being on the same page with the offspring…some couples are and some are not. I see it all the time if our group. It will certainly help OP if she and her husband can get on the same page. It’s always easier with a “united front.” Every once in a while when H and I are “united” we have to take it away from the kids and figure out what position we’re going to support and whomever looses the argument utters nary a controversial word at the moment with the kids…time for the “I told you sos” in the privacy of the bedroom. Dividing and conquering is a technique children figure out by age 5.</p>
<p>mom 3–you are part of the problem. You need to get some counseling; there is just way too much drama from you. You kind of sound like your D—you make all these plans, almost get ready to actually deal with your D, then NOTHING! Now D has to stir the pot to start the pattern all over again and you’re a sucker for it. I’ll bet this has been going on for many many years but that now the stakes are just getting higher and higher as you’re all becoming more dysfunctional.</p>
<p>Sorry to be so blunt but someone needs to “shake you”. WAKE-UP!</p>
<p>You and H need to get an apartment for D near her work, pay the deposit, first months rent, hook up the utilities, put food in the fridge, and make sure she has the basic necessities. Get your money back for any tuition you have paid for this semester, she has demonstrated over and over again that she cannot deal with the responsibility of school–why do you keep trying “one more time?” I’ll give you a hint–so D can do what she always does and there will be more drama!</p>
<p>Change all the locks on the doors and tell D the only contact you want with her for a while is in counseling. Do her a favor and let her go. She may surprise you at what she is able to do in the absence of the family drama.</p>
<p>Next, set up marriage counseling for you and H–something weird there also.</p>
<p>If you’re not willing to take action then you need to just resign to this being the way of life you are choosing and quit complaining about it.</p>
<p>Another total outsider sharing sympathy to m-3 and really appreciating the enormity of the situation. You have been given such wise support here that there is little I can add except if ever you were handed a justification to just say “that’s it. I’m done.” this incident is it. On a silver platter. Be done.</p>
<p>^Yes that was blunt…and I understand why. The dynamics have been an adjustment to my daughters needs since she had trouble at her first school (LAC). At that time we went into protect mode and than care for the sick kid mode to where the heck are we now mode. I thought we were doing what was best but I had no idea that my daughter would develop a mouth and attitude that would make a sane person cringe. I am also not accustomed to any of this in that I have never had a child back talk me ever no less be nasty and abusive. </p>
<p>I am not at home now and I don’t intend on going home until this evening. This is the time away that I need for me. It has nothing to to with giving my daughter what she wants. I just want the peace and quiet.</p>
<p>^^^^what mtnmomma said. Based upon your own posts, M3. Been there, done that, it works. Said DS is polite, respectful, honest, self-supporting, thankful, and on his own. And still does not have a key to our house.</p>
<p>If I’ve followed this correctly, there was a period when she was at an LAC that was bad and they thought she was in danger, brought her home, etc. I’m not clear when the more outrageous behavior started. I see that she was going to school this semester and the crisis that started this thread began on December 15, which is three weeks ago. I see a lot of frustration on this thread about how long it’s taking for action to be taken and I see it differently. I’m a family therapist, and if I was seeing this family and had started seeing them sometime in the week after the 15th I would not think that a whole lot of time had elapsed. The first session would be a lot of information gathering, intake-type stuff. By now, we’d definitely be looking at the dynamics, implementing changes, etc. but I would not, in my professional capacity, be discouraged that massive change hadn’t happened yet, because three weeks just isn’t that much time in the context of a twenty-year relationship. I think we’re in this thread every day with multiple reports throughout the day and there is an urgency and frustration that comes with that but, in fact, hugely significant change in a family usually takes more than three weeks. Therapists don’t get constant updates throughout the day and a week usually makes it a lot easier to see what’s changing and what is not. </p>
<p>M3 does seem to be making some changes. I think it’s good that she’s leaving the house – and for everyone who questions why she leaves instead of the daughter, I’m guessing you’ve never dealt with a child who refuses to leave the house when asked. If M3 is feeling the need to get out for her own mental health, that is not the time to have a showdown over who leaves, particularly if the husband is not going to back her up. Everyone keeps telling M3 to take care of herself – she is doing that when she leaves. It’s a good thing to do and she is sending a message to the family system by doing something differently than she has done in the past. I think she is telling her husband that she won’t put up with this, that she will leave and dump it in his lap and that he is going to have to step up. She’s also making a statement to the daughter that she won’t tolerate abuse. There is nothing wrong with walking out the door if someone treats you abusively. Sometimes you have to leave.</p>
<p>Anyhow, yes, I know there have been problems for a while, but the abusive talking back, etc. seems more recent. The current crisis that blew things up happened three weeks ago. There seems to be a major paradigm shift going on in M3’s head which is good and her husband may need a little time to catch up. Yes, there are all kinds of things that can and should be happening. But a lot is going on here with the sons home, the holidays in the middle of it all, the car accident, etc.</p>
<p>M-3 – I hope today is both peaceful and quiet for you. A very, very tough couple of weeks. Sending thoughts of strength and acceptance…</p>
<p>Mimk6
I had very similar thoughts but you said them much better that I would have been able to do. I think that M3s actions are very positive and are clearly a step in the right direction. </p>
<p>And I don’t know about where you all live, but around here, it’s pretty darn difficult to find an apartment to move into on such short notice. That will take some time and just because M3 has not mentioned apartment shopping does not mean that it has not already begun to some degree. I highly doubt that she posts everything here. I certainly would not.</p>
<p>Good point about our getting a minute-by-minute update on this stuff. </p>
<p>Understand why m3 wants out of that stressful, chaotic environment but I agree with the posts above. This system is broken and has been for a while. Hopefully it will be on the mend, but m3 can only take care of herself, not others. This thread in and of itself is fraught with drama, splitting, ups and downs, worry, relief, hope, disappointment, support, suggestions, frustration, etc. Its a microcosm of m3’s life.</p>
<p>Another thumbs up for what mimk6 said. M-3 is hurting right now. I can totally see why she is removing herself from the situation. She is tired of trying to make it all right and if the way she needs to focus on herself is to leave, then good for her. Let H try dealing with unruly daughter, and let him be the punching bag for a change, and my guess is he’ll be coming around pretty quickly to join forces with mom. M-3 knows her husband better than anyone, and I’ll bet she’s got this all figured out (as far as getting H on the same page).</p>