<p>Bravo for you and your sons! Any signs that her behaviour is wearing thin on your DH yet?</p>
<p>I know your current strategy is to bow out and let your husband deal with it in hopes he will see the light that D needs limits and boundaries and that she needs to live on her own. I hope for your sake he comes to that realization as I know you are not both on the same page on these matters which makes things far more difficult to deal with. But he may not come around to that and perhaps could be an enabler. Hard to say. </p>
<p>I will just reiterate that things would be simpler and less day to day “conflict” if D lived in her own apartment or dorm…whereby you agreed to pay for college/room/board if she passes / earns credits / or attains a certain reasonable GPA (whatever is a reasonable standard) and if she doesn’t attain that standard, then she pays her own way for college if she wants to attend, or else works and earns her own income as a non-student. THEN, you would not be privy to if she chose to go out the night before an exam, would not have to deal with tantrums, would not have to deal with her transportation issues, etc. etc. etc. She’d be on her own at college on your dime if she is successful or independent as a non-student earning her own way. The day to day stuff would be her own to solve and you would not have to know every little thing as she is a young adult. She so much needs to be on her own and grow up. I think paying for her college makes sense if she earns the credits because if you don’t pay, it is a set up for failure. But if she doesn’t pass or earn credits, then she must pay her own way. To date, she has managed to get decent grades and earn the credits even though I know you are frustrated by her lack of seriousness with her studies. But somehow she has managed to do OK. It would be best for you not to have to observe her every move. It’s too aggravating. Just have general limits and boundaries…she goes to school, lives on her own, earns credits, you support her…OR she doesn’t go to school and lives on her own and earns her own expenses. The day to day stuff would be out of your hands. And really it should be. That would be better for her own growth and better for your own sanity too.</p>
<p>My daughter paid for this course…over $1,000 and still she has done nothing. It means nothing to her. I will never pay another penny of her tuition once the spring semester is over. To answer the question as to why I am waiting for the spring semester to be over …the school does not refund tuition to parents, only to students. I am done paying for someone to attend college who does not want to open a book. This is a joke and I don’t care if she had a 4.0 she is learning nothing. She will never pass her professional certification because that would require study and actually knowing the information. She will need to complete her education when she is ready to grow up and make it on her own. The mom checkbook is closed.</p>
<p>She also has no right to take money from a mother that she speaks to so horribly. When I get treated the way I deserve after she has been on her own the tune may change but not the way things stand.</p>
<p>M3 (M cubed) - I am thinking of you tonight. I’ll say a prayer for your family.</p>
<p>Guess your boy will be hiding his car keys.</p>
<p>I am curious as to how your D manages to obtain decent grades (she even earned Honors last year, I think you posted)? I realize she is not a motivated type learner, but I don’t know if she ever will be the kind of learner you hope to see. If she were away at school, you would not know how often she cracks open a book and would only have her grades and GPA to go by. She seems to still bring home the grades. How does she manage that? Just wondering. </p>
<p>I agree that your D’s attitudes and behavior toward you are out of line but that too would likely be improved if she were not living with you and where you didn’t know her day to day stuff in the way you are able to observe it now. </p>
<p>Right now, your D is living a high school lifestyle (except with no limits). She needs to be forced to be independent. </p>
<p>As far as paying for her school, that is your choice of course. I am not sure your criteria for paying for school as it seems like you are measuring how hard she works or how much she has learned, whereas many parents would measure it by credits being earned/passed, or a certain GPA level. If your D obtains a respectable GPA as you say she has, how do you measure the degree of effort, etc ? If she were away from home, you would not know how much she studied but only her grades, which in your D’s case seem to be decent grades Now, if your kid was losing credits and failing, you should not pay. I just don’t see that as the case here, but rather she is not measuring up to be the kind of student you want her to be, and which she may never be as she is not that type of learner. You said so yourself. Thus, the standard may need to be passing, good grades, getting a degree, as opposed to excelling or giving it 100% or loving learning. That may not be who she is and you may have to accept that. </p>
<p>The fresh attitude, I would not put up with but I see that as somewhat separate from the college issue.</p>
<p>By the way, if the school only refunds the money to the student and not to the parent who paid it, do you mean to tell me you could not get the money from your D after the school mails it to her? I mean she knows it is YOUR money. She’d keep it? If my kid did that, she’d be cut off. I can’t imagine it as she’d know the money is our money, not hers. Also, your D lives at home and so checks from the bursar’s or registrar’s office that arrive at your home should be opened by you. The money is yours. I don’t consider that private mail.</p>
<p>I am with Soozie, can the refund be mailed to you home? I would then take it and deposit it myself, it is YOUR money. I think you still have a joint account with your DDs money anyway.</p>
<p>Or triple check with the finaid dept & burser and ask them to refund to the PAYOR and fund the tuition with student loans. After all you have been though, I would be of the “not a penny more” “prove yourself worthy” school!</p>
<p>I could not sign my name on a check addresses to her and yea she would keep it and reregister for her classes. She wants to remain in school (her words not mine).</p>
<p>Consider checking Craigslist for a “roommate wanted” ad near campus. Often there are openings in January, due to students graduation in December or dropping out. It might be a good time to snag a reasonably priced month-month sublet. </p>
<p>Since your D is a good job hunter, she could probably cover her own food bill and maybe part of the rent too.</p>
<p>One of my sons has had a very busy week taking care of business before he goes back to school. This morning I drove him to the train station 10 minutes away. My daughter needed to take the bus at the same train station only four minutes after my sons train. I offered her a ride since I was going to the same place. She said “no, I will take their car when you get back.” I hid the extra key and when I walked through the door she still had not left for the bus in my town, which takes her to the other bus. She screamed, yelled and told me she hated me. I am deaf now and hear nothing. She gets no reaction, no look of horror, and no feed to continue on. She left and did’nt scream outside the door for our whole street to hear. The door is closed and I have peace…coffee time. The only thing she said was “I am buying a car this week”. She has no idea what that insurance will cost her. </p>
<p>Soozie…Education is not just about grades for me or anyone else in my family. It is about learning. I don’t know how she is managing getting the grades she has this semester. She worked at the CC she had attended, but this is not work. I laugh now when I read threads about specific schools that parents are going into debt to pay for. If parents only knew that if their kid shows up does very minimal work they might rethink the way they choose to spend their tuition dollars. My daughter essentially blew this off again and yet will probably get an A in the class. What has she learned?..zip. I don’t follow the thinking that she is learning without studying…she has short term learning difficulties. Nobody is that smart that they need not open a text. I will never buy a textbook either. If they should become important than she will buy them. A degree to a person who cares little about the process is just a piece of paper…a worthless piece of paper.</p>
<p>M-3, it is not your responsibility to find an apartment for your daughter. I applaud your efforts to step back from the conflict with your daughter. If one of your sons has a conflict with her, the two of them should resolve it without your intervention. If your husband wants her to live at home, then he needs to shoulder the responsibility for dealing with her directly. No one in your family should expect that everything goes through you. I hope, too, that family conversations among you, your husband, and your sons do not all or mostly revolve around what to do about daughter.</p>
<p>Colorado…I suggested that to my husband and daughter. I will not look at a car, apartment, or anything that pertains to her life until she is a civil human being and I don’t mean for a week or a month. This kid will either learn what is appropriate or she will discover how inappropriate she is in the real world when it does not work for her. I am so completely done with her behavior and having my three sons home together these past few weeks just made me realize how crazy I have been for allowing this. My two sons are leaving tomorrow and there has not been one minute of any nasty talk from any one of them. They appreciate everything we do either directly for them or indirectly. My daughter just expects us and her brothers to run around for her like the everready bunny. I am so sad to see my sons leave tomorrow and I know she will escalate again when they are not here to shut her up. The next few days I will be very busy taking care of other business just to stay out of my home.</p>
<p>I cross posted with Farfellena</p>
<p>I am really just venting…nothing new going on just need to get it off my chest.</p>
<p>
Herein lies the problem. Sorry, but as they used to say on Saturday Night Live, your daughter is a selfish porkface. Why does what “She wants” trump what you want? If she wants to stay in school, then fine, but she has to live elsewhere and you , YOU can decide what you will fund. As for a refund check, if it comes in the mail, deposit it in an ATM into your bank account. Is your daughter really likely to go to the bank and yelll fraud? Doubtful.</p>
<p>Momma-three, I’ve been mostly lurking here, but I feel I just can’t remain silent on one item. </p>
<p>If you truly refuse to pay tuition for the Fall, please notify your D now. Don’t save that news for the last minute. It would only give her ammo for a mid-summer outrage. The key is that you must stick to your guns. Tell her now (and perhaps inform the therapist). </p>
<p>I know, there’s a risk with my suggestion: she might change for the better between now and July and you’ll have a change of heart. If you believe that’s possible, I can understand why you wouldn’t want to tell her now. It’s a tough dilemma, and I sympathize. </p>
<p>Best of luck to you. I’m following your story with prayers and concern. May you find peace soon.</p>
<p>Are there dorms at this college?</p>
<p>DougBetsy…I don’t want to say it I want her to understand that by us having her move out we are done funding this education that does not require her to read and study. I hate to say this but I wonder if all state school are similar that offer her program. When she leaves our home I will help her with first and last month rent (for her shared apartment) and other esential items (stocked pantry and toiletries but than she is on her own. She could manage with her jobs to cover her expenses and if she chooses not to make due with what she earns than it will be her problem. She is covered under our insurance plan for health benefits and I would pay for any of her appointments except missed ones. The issue here is school and I am not battling this issue anymore regardless of her grades. She has had the gift of edcation and to throw it away is a waste of her time, and my money. I don’t like to waste money and when I spend it, it is for a worthwhile purchase that brings us joy and some intrinic value. There is neither joy or value to her attending so I will not entertain the notion anymore. This may sound harsh but after all this time I just can’t stand the fact that she enjoys us spending this money and doing nothing right in front of our eyes. It is her way of saying ---- you. She has no guilt, or any remorse for anything that she does…I don’t feel guilty about not paying. She will have a year left after this semester is over, if she wants to go than she will take out the loans to do so but I will not pay them off just because she gets a degree. If she managed to pass her boards I might reconsider but I know for a fact that is not possible without preparation and alot of study (since she has not done so up to this point). Time will tell but the bank of mom is closed and if dad is going to continue to fund this after next semester I would be surprised.</p>
<p>m3-
You have given good parent-child communication advice to legendofmax in his thread. You really should follow your own advice. Communication is KEY and “hoping” that your daughter will “get it” that you won’t pay when she is out the door is , frankly, patently unrealistic. She DOESN’T understand your thoughts or ideas, she has only her narcissistic, myopic view. You simply MUST tell her. She probably won’t hear/listen and your husband will likely disagree, but lack of communication of your plans fuels this ever raging fire.</p>
<p>M-3, I’ve been reading this thread off and on for the past week or so. It must be tedious for you to read through the posts of some people who post the same advice ad nauseum. It reminds me of little children who scream the same thing over and over to get attention. I recognize that this thread is really about your working through your feelings by writing them down. Too bad some others don’t realize that, too. </p>
<p>Best of luck to you and your family as you work through this difficult situation.</p>
<p>Most posters who just want to vent without looking for other posters to take the time to respond/give feedback usually use the “say it here” thread. Posters who start threads usually do a combination of venting and gathering feedback, and do so with full knowledge that that is what the thread is going to provide. M3 commented elsewhere that she finds the feedback, including the harsh feedback, helpful, providing insight and food for thought. </p>
<p>m3 has spoken for herself many times in this thread that she hears and appreciates all feedback. She is not simply venting. She recognizes, from her posts, that she needs to change and is listening to suggestions and recommendations from others. Sometimes people have to hear things multiple times before it sinks in. Posters here are not being childish and certainly not in need of scolding.</p>
<p>I don’t know, being mad that the “entertainment” was ending was pretty childish in my book.</p>