<p>Mommathree – some kids really are experiential learners. Maybe D needs the experience of living on her own to better understand what she wants out of life, and what she’s willing to put into life to make that happen. Given the circumstances, I’d encourage her to move out in a semi-supported fashion for the first two months with the following offer: you and dad pay for her share in some existing month-to-month rental situation with housemates (so that there aren’t utility deposits and the like) – pay them directly for the first two months, not through her. Make sure that the place is practical on a job paying not more than $9 an hour (unless you’re certain she can earn more than that) figuring that she can get work for at least 30 hours a week, somewhere. That means that her share of rent and utilities can’t be more than $450 a month. It will be a dump, but that’s okay. Give her a card for the nearest grocery store for $150, and tell her you’ll load it each week (or send her a new one) for $50/week for the next six weeks. Buy her a one month unlimited bus pass. I’d keep her on your insurance, and agree that you’ll purchase any Rx that she needs for the time being, as well as doctor/dentist copays. Help her get a cheap (credit union, probably) bank account, and start it with the minimum balance. Make sure you’re not on it as a cosigner. </p>
<p>Her job is to find work, or find a live-in position, or whatever else she chooses to do – but you’re going to need to be really clear that the parental financing of her life ends with this transition period.</p>
<p>zoozievt— Things changed alot since the summer. Our daughter does not have a curfew of any sort. She is out most nights until at least midnight and two or three nights a week she is either out till 2:30 or not home at all. She does nothing in the home and has all of her bills paid. There was nothing expected of her unfortunately other than the fact that she does her own laundry. She works at a couple part time jobs and attends school. She is late for class most days and did very little school work.</p>
<p>I think it is hard to have a young adult living at home as it is not the same as a teenager. They are ready to live their own lives. My kids don’t have to account to me for every move now that they no longer live at home and are not in high school. If they want to stay out until 2 AM or sleep over a boyfriend’s apartment, they can. They are independent and that’s really the stage of life they are in. It really should not be like high school and with close parental supervision. </p>
<p>I truly believe things would be better if your daughter lived on her own. School is not her priority and so you have to accept that. I would no longer pay for it as it is a waste. Even if she says she wants to go to school, she may be saying that to avoid having to be responsible and earn a living as it is easier as mom and dad pay for it all. She obviously is not into being at school to learn. </p>
<p>It is in her best interests to move toward independence. Have a meeting with her about helping her set that up, find an apartment, create a budget, find enough work to support her budget and so forth. It is not a punishment but rather what she should be doing. She will be happier to not have to be under so much close supervision and can do what she wants, and she will have to become responsible as she has to pay her way. You could give her a month’s time to help with expenses until her jobs and so forth are lined up. Treat this discussion as a support position. School is not an option and parental support is not an option as she isn’t in school and is an adult. My kids don’t see it as a punishment to support themselves, but rather an expectation to do so when not in school. And school was a privilege and they took advantage of that privilege and made the most of it and then some, but had they not cared about college and not done the work, I would not have wanted to pay for it. But they surely know we won’t be paying for their support when not in college. They are adults. Your D needs to be treated as an adult and she’ll have to rise to the expectations set forth.</p>
<p>Another thought is that when you say your D is clueless as to setting up a budget and all that independent stuff…she will remain clueless if you don’t set expectations. The only way to learn it is by doing it and setting an expectation that this is what she has to do. It is not an option. She’ll learn as she goes along. She can’t pay her bills…she’ll have to find more work. For my D, I couldn’t think, “gee, she has never supported herself and wouldn’t know how, so I won’t make her learn how,” but simply she knew come graduation day, she was on her own and what it costs to live and how much she’d need to earn. It did not matter if she had done it before. She had to. She never complained and it was a given…this is what you do when you are an adult and not in college. They learn. Rather than setting a low bar with the assumption of “D is clueless,” set the bar higher and age appropriate and say, “this is the expectation and our limits, you will rise to the occasion, as you have no other choice.” That is not a negative thing to say but it is a parental expectation that a LOT of parents have.</p>
<p>^I agree and have done all of that before. Our three other kids have managed their own finances since they have been at college. In fact one son worked full time while attending his school and another worked as an independant consultant about 30 hrs a week while at MIT. My daughter however just has the idea that this is owed to her and she becomes very beligerant when things do not go her way. It is an entitlement issue.</p>
<p>Madame, you are new to CC I see. Welcome. You have not been a participant on this thread and so coming onto it and suggesting ending it really is not your place. You don’t have to visit the thread if you don’t wish. This mom came asking for advice in a situation that has challenged her. That’s what many do on this site. Visit the threads you deem worthy and participate as you wish. Popping onto a thread in which you have not participated and suggesting it should end is an insult to the member seeking help and obviously there are plenty of members willing to discuss her situation with her. If you are not one of them, that is your choice but please don’t tell others not to. Thanks.</p>
<p>babyontheway…We insisted that she pay for her winter course because we saw where the semester was going. The following day the bill was due for next semester. We are going to try to get that money back, however I love how the bill is addressed to the student and the payment is made by the parent. I suspect a refund will need to be made to the student. I will check with the bursar tomorrow.</p>
<p>Dear momma-three: I’m coming late to the thread. I don’t think there is a “solution” that would take your pain away at the moment. Your love for your daughter and your desire that she have a productive future is the source of the pain, and that’s not going to change any time soon.</p>
<p>First, congratulations to your D for getting her work in. I hope the professors do take it.</p>
<p>I have had difficulties similar to the ones you describe with both H and S at times. There seems to be some genetic weakness that causes them to cave in at obstacles instead of fighting back.</p>
<p>And S was off in a bubble with a GF too, and that made the problem much worse. He scared himself with some of his grades and is doing much better now. He still doesn’t have the “grit” he might. I try to love him for the person he is with many wonderful traits.</p>
<p>Your D does seem to have the symptoms of borderline personality disorder. I am not sure she can do better right now. </p>
<p>I think the most important thing is for you to find a way that it doesn’t hurt so much; the migraine is a symbol, yes? </p>
<p>I don’t think it’s your fault or that you did anything wrong. These things are mysterious.</p>
<p>It’s her own future she is putting at risk, and sadly, there isn’t much you can do to prevent that. I felt sad when I read that all she really cared about was her weekend away with BF.</p>
<p>Sadly, feeling good in the moment is all some people can process.</p>
<p>I hope the situation improves with time. For now, maybe a family therapist can see you all together and negotiate a solution that brings you closer together. I’m afraid that ultimatums usually just divide people.</p>
<p>momma-three…one thing I suggest is to not compare to your three sons because obviously they have not challenged you in this way. She’s harder, let’s face it. She isn’t like your boys. </p>
<p>I think your D can fairly expect you to pay for college if she stays in college and does the work as you did that for your sons. So, that much, I feel she is entitled to. What she isn’t entitled to is your paying for it and she doesn’t do the work or finish out the semester. That needs to be made clear. If she still wants to be in school, you can tell her your offer to pay for it is AFTER she completes each semester successfully as she is too much of a risk right now for your funds for school. She can attend and take a loan or use savings and you will reimburse her. There is no other option for that and just say so. Don’t budge on it. </p>
<p>I’d ask her, “do you want to go to college?” You keep saying it is a low priority for her. If she doesn’t want to go, she should not go! It is only for kids who want to be there and do the work. Now, if she does want to go, my concern would be that she wants to be in school as a way of being supported but for no other reason. </p>
<p>But if she is not in school, it doesn’t matter what she feels she is owed or how belligerent she gets. The financial support ends as she is not in college. You don’t support your sons when they are out of school, do you? So, that is equal in expectation. </p>
<p>Simply tell her what the options are…college on her dime to be reimbursed if she completes each semester, or no college but if no college, she has to support herself. But college or no college, she must live on her own as she is of the age to do so and you will help her find the apartment and set up a budget and support her job search. It’s only entitlement if you actually give in and do what you don’t want to do. And it truly is in her best interests to either be in school and commit to it (which she hasn’t shown on your dime and you can’t waste money) or take a leave and work for a while. In any case, the option to be in school on your dime is not on the table (though you will reimburse her if she lays it out and completes it). The option to live at home is not on the table. She must gain independence and you’ll help her set that up and there is no option for parental support if not in school. It doesn’t matter what she wants. These are the expectations, not options.</p>
<p>I also think it would be a good idea to have a three way meeting with the therapist to problem solve for next semester what your D will do and how to all support that decision. Again, not a punishment but a supportive network to problem solve what she’ll be doing and how she’ll do it and pay for it. The therapist can facilitate the discussion and is an unbiased third party.</p>
<p>Refunds are made to the student- from how it was explained to me- our loan/costs are applied first- then her loans, then if there is anything left over it is refunded to her- however she notifies us- but she is living off campus so we allow her to use to refund to py for her books/housing costs- we still have to put money in her acct for food occasionally.</p>
<p>If you have PLUS loans, I would imagine you can stop further disbursements of the loans-we have taken out a very small loan- but as we are still paying for loans for her sisters school- it is pretty hard to pay for it out of income.</p>
<p>My understanding is that D has been upsetting her parents to no end for a long, long time. D dislikes her mother and apparently a main goal of D’s is to upset her mother. In that task, D has been succeeding masterfully. </p>
<p>A new approach seems to be in order. Rather than try to change D, or rail against her boyfriend, my suggestion is that the parents focus on counseling for themselves. The goals of counseling would include to determining how best to retain calmness in the face of D’s antics, and how best to see that D gains complete financial independence as soon as possible.</p>
<p>We have met with the therapist and I think we are in agreement that my daughter needs to move out. My husband wants to see her finish school because that is what my daughter claims she wants. I feel differently at this point in time, because our daughters actions do not suggest that school is important to her. She appears to enjoy lectures but she does not enjoy the student aspect of studying or writing papers. It is very overwhelming for her and she shuts down, as we just saw once again. I have no idea how the semester turned out with the work being submitted late with little regard to the quality of the work at the near completion. It has become very painful to watch her attend school because she really hates it. </p>
<p>The most obvious repeating theme here is that our daughter freaks out, reacts terribly to those around her, and than has no remorse for her behavior. There is rarely any sign of appreciation and when there is, it is obvious that she knows it is socially necessary to express it but it is not a real part of who she is. She has always had trouble maintaining friendships and I suspect this is in part to her drama and negativity as well as the lack of appreciation she shows to people. There are many aspects of her personality that don’t make sense to us. There is a coldness and distance and a desire to be uncommunicative. </p>
<p>Things had gotton a little better when she came home from living with her boyfriend but than they just started to escalate again. She really does not belong living with us anymore because she makes us feel like she hates us, and is clear that once she graduates she is gone for good and will have very little contact with us. There is only so long a parent can hear this and not feel like a total idiot for allowing their child to basically use our home, money, and love for her purposes and than tell us she will go and have little to do with us. This kid knew how upset we were this weekend and she never tried to call to talk to us. In fact she made it clear that we were to leave her alone. We did and now here we are with Christmas this week and a daughter who has made the holiday season a mess. She has the ability to leave me limp and seems to enjoy doing so. There is no joy with her in our home and I do believe she is not in danger of being on her own (my husband disagrees). The next step is dealing with her this morning or afternoon depending on when she wakes up. I would rather ignore her behavior right now and give her the treatment she gives us. I just can’t keep visiting her drama filled world.</p>
<p>ADaD…I cross posted with you and yes I agree. Now it is time to get my husband on board because he is the one that is having a hard time letting go. He is concerned that she will revisit her old behavior. Little does he realize she never got rid of the behavior she just masks it a little better. It is time for our daughter to be independant and learn how to live with the life she is creating for herself.</p>
<p>Momma-three: may I suggest that you don’t deal with her now? Wait until after the holidays. Your sons are home, and you may not get to see some of them for a while ( I think one of them have a job overseas after graduation). Why fill their time at home with your daughter’s drama? I would ignore her for now and then move her out after the holidays. She maybe surprised that she is not getting all the attention now.</p>
<p>Don’t deal with her now. Since you and H aren’t on the same page, anyway, you can’t deal with her “right now,” anyway.</p>
<p>Enjoy your sons and then get into therapy, like ADad said, with those exact goals, and before you know it, you actually will be “okay” with yourself. I think this is probably the first step, now that you are ready to let her go. It’s a lot easier once you just accept her this way. You’ll feel a lot less stress about it now that you know this is just who she is and you don’t have to do anything to change it. Just enjoy your sons, and don’t let her run the house, emotionally.</p>
<p>Yes oldfort my son is leaving and we will not see him for sometime. I want this time to be so nice and I suspect that my daughter knows that. I told my husband that this is what she has been doing for a long time now. I have to stop myself from falling into the trap.</p>