<p>Rising senior DD has her focus on careers that pay a lot of money. This is not a value we tried to instill but we can see how we unwittingly created the monster. Our kids have seen 2 very different lifestyles. For much of their lives DH and I, MDs, had low paying clinic jobs and lived in a city condo. 5 years ago, with college looming, we moved to an affluent area and joined private practices. They went from public to private schools, started going on vacations and we recently bought a dream home.</p>
<p>DD has decided she wants wealth and can think about doing what she really loves (art of many sorts) and helping the world after she gets rich in business. Wharton has moved to the top of her college list.</p>
<p>Actually, I’m not a big “follow your passion” person - I don’t think there are truly that many people who are fortunate enough to be able to follow their passions and raise a family. More of us have interesting jobs, maybe fulfilling jobs, but also have passions that won’t earn us a dime. I worry that emphasizing you gotta love what you do, sets kids up for failure. I think you have to do something fulfilling and meaningful, but it may not be your work, or you may do it at one time in your life, and less so at another.</p>
<p>What I’ve told my D is to pay attention to what you enjoy doing and what you are good at doing, a career is somewhere in there. Learn about what it takes to live, and live on less than you make. Life can never be only about how much money you make, because if you think that way there will never be enough money to make you happy. But there is definitely a level below which you will be unhappy, and so will your spouse and children.
I’ve also told her that making a lot of money at a lucrative, but not fulfilling job, then walking away to follow your passion, is a very reasonable choice. It has to be managed appropriately so you don’t sink into the trap having to work to support your lifestyle, but done right early retirement and an art career could be a very useful way of spending your life.</p>
<p>DS1 (rising senior) wants to get rich by developing some tech idea and having
a start-up company. He equates getting rich with helping the world because
he wants to invent something that will make lots of people’s lives better.</p>
<p>I think he equates productivity (good for all) with wealth (good for him).
The funny thing is he is a very low consumer. Likes old T-shirts and cargo
pants, doesn’t lust after consumer gadgets and is generally content. He
just likes ideas, and technological advances.</p>
<p>Seems OK to me.</p>
<p>Why does your daughter want to be rich? I just visited some friends that
got RICH in the tech bubble. Their house was full of art. So maybe she
sees getting rich as a path to being a patron of the arts. The world could
use more support for the arts.</p>
<p>In general, I tend to be in favor of anything that keeps your options open. If she goes after a big money degree and doesn’t like the career after graduation, she can always change to something less well paid, but it can be a lot harder to do the opposite.</p>
<p>And there’s nothing wrong with being wealthy, so long as she plans to make her money ethically and not let it take over her personality–and it sounds like she’s batting 100% on both scores.</p>
<p>The other thing–if D is still in HS or a college freshman, something like 90% of all college freshmen change their majors. You know that old saying about how if you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans? That goes double for intended majors.</p>
<p>DD would tell you that she wants a nice home (for a CA kid that means having millions to spend), to travel the world, eat at the best restaurants and to live well. In all fairness to her I understand, she loves design and articture and surroundings are important to her. She is a wonderful cook and truly enjoys fine restaurants. Our family trips have been among the highlights of her life. I do get it. I just don’t know if you end up happy because I made such a different choice for myself. I’ll be the first to admit, there came a time in my life that I wanted more for my family than my work was providing.</p>
<p>Conyat, she’s in HS. I don’t think too many Whartonites change major, am I wrong? I’m not against Wharton, I think you can do anything with that degree. I do wonder if she’ll miss taking more art history and fun LAC classes.</p>
<p>The entry level jobs in business (eg investment banking) are very high paying, but the hours are brutal. These young people are literally giving up years of their life to “pay their dues” in this career field. My son has just finished his first year working in IB (graduated college in '06) and the hours are just unbelievable. They work 7 days per week with no break for weeks on end - easily 110 hours a week at least - and this is not an exaggeration. My son is actually very interested in the field itself - he is not in it just for the money - and I would say that unless one is interested, it would not be doable. Personally, there is no way I could do quality work with that little sleep, even when I was in my 20’s. Your daughter should make sure she knows what this type of high paying career entails.</p>
<p>That’s interesting. My DH and I are MD’s ( and African American) as well. Our daughter seems undecided but it’s my impression she sometimes thinks of going into medicine because of the money. Not “rich”; just financially stable. I’m curious about your daughter’s experiences that make her think of business as “lots of money”.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is a right or wrong here. Part of this is a value system and a personal approach. There is nothing wrong if your D is seeking a lucrative career field. However, if that is one thing she is seeking, she should ALSO make sure to NOT pick a field for this reason alone. She should still go after an interest field but if she wants to make sure she is going for a well paying field, she can add that to her criteria in picking a field to pursue. The money alone would not be a reason enough to sustain her interest I am afraid. But she could narrow her options to fields that interest her that also pay well. </p>
<p>I must admit, I never approached my college and career options based on potential earnings and neither have my children. That is not any more right than how your D is going about it. My kids are following their interests and passions, as did I, and for me, that is absolutely a fine way to go about picking college majors and career paths. I feel they will be successful but perhaps what they call success might not be the same as what another values in defining success. I want them to be able to support themselves in their professions but they have never discussed income potential in choosing their intended fields, and neither did I. </p>
<p>She has an uncle who is an investment banker and he and his family were hitting the coast of Italy all of the years we were hitting the camp grounds! Another uncle has a very successful business he started at 25. We are the poor branch of the family.</p>
<p>Shrinkwrap, where does your daughter want to apply?</p>
<p>Soozie, I guess what I don’t know is whether money is enough to make some happy. I don’t mean literally just money, but I don’t know that having money has not been a fine objective for some I know.</p>
<p>Is there anyone else who changed career/practice/objectives because their original ones meant too many family sacrifices?</p>
<p>My advice – encourage your daughter to try get an entry level (clerical) position as a summer job working within the industry she is interested in. In other words, she might be the lowest paid coffee-getter at a financial firm- if she can’t get a job in the same field, she should at least get the same <em>type</em> of work. If she expects her career will be a white collar desk job, then she needs to spend some time working in an office, as opposed to say, spending the summer working as a lifeguard. That will give her a view of the hours and working style experienced by the execs and management level people: does she want to be like them? </p>
<p>My d. has discovered that she really does not like a 9-5 office experience – she wants the flex time she sees her self-employed parents enjoying. She isn’t interested in a money-oriented career in any case, but she’s an active outgoing person who probably will enjoy the types of careers that involve a lot of field work. </p>
<p>A kid really can’t go wrong with a business degree from Wharton, but I am sure that there are plenty who realize that they prefer the more relaxed pace of working for a smaller business or in the government or nonprofit sector, as opposed to the frenetic demands of the high-paying firms that MotherofTwo describes. </p>
<p>But the bottom line is that I think real-world work experience is important to deciding on a career. I found that my daughter’s attitudes toward spending changed radically once she started making the connection between the cost of what she wanted and how many hours were put in toward earning it. Quite frankly the kid discovered that she really didn’t like working all that much and the world is full of pleasures that can be enjoyed for free or quite inexpensively. </p>
<p>Of course, a high paying job is much nicer than a low paying one, but my own daughter has also realized that she really enjoys her $8/hour work study job, and really hates the $20+ hour part time work with a catering agency that she can also get – so while it is nice to have the option of checking agency listings when she needs extra cash, she wouldn’t want to have to do that all day, every day… even if the pay was good.</p>
<p>“Shrinkwrap, where does your daughter want to apply?”
I wish I knew… I wish SHE knew. We visited Duke while visiting family but that’s a big reach. Maybe Spellman. I’d love a UC; dad would love a Claremont (and apparently the loans that go with it!).She’s at a program a UCLA this week and I hope she comes back motivated to move forward. She loves writing (scored 760 on the writing SAT ), but DH doesn’t “approve”. He was impressed with the score, though.</p>
<p>"DD has decided she wants wealth and can think about doing what she really loves (art of many sorts) and helping the world after she gets rich in business. Wharton has moved to the top of her college list.</p>
<p>How would you react? "</p>
<p>I’d be interested, but not enthusiastic – the same reaction that I’d give any career goals. Most young people change their career goals many times anyway.</p>
<p>My older S as a h.s. junior and senior planned to be rich so he could live in a mansion with servants (His values, not ours). Two years later, he was a barely employed, college-dropout punk rock musician.</p>
<p>So, as you may be able to tell from that, no reason to get in a twit over high school fantasies. As someone I know used to say, “There’s many a slip between the cup and the lip.”</p>
<p>Quoting John Grisham’s graduation speech at UVA. He planned to be a tax lawyer because he was convinced he could make a lot of money representing wealthy people.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t pin your actions on your daughter’s mindset.</p>
<p>My family has never had money for fancy vacations, new electronics, nice cars, etc and its BECAUSE of that that I want to make a lot of money by the time I’m 30.</p>
<p>Sure not being able to go to Europe or drive a Lexus isn’t the end of the world. But what if one of us came down with cancer? What if another recession hit? To me, I’d rather have a job that pays well enough that i never have to worry about the future, than have a supposedly <em>fun</em> job, and cringe every time the mail comes.</p>
<p>Well, that’s the thing. I am one to believe that you should seek a field of study and a career in what you love to do. I was saying that IF your D is ALSO seeking something lucrative as an objective, that that ALONE is likely not going to be enough for her to sustain interest or even to be happy. It is important that she is truly interested in doing whatever it is. Having money as a goal alone might not bode well. Having both objectives might work. </p>
<p>In my own case and that of my kids, they have only gone after what they are interested in with no discussion as to the income levels for those professions and so forth. This works for me but I can understand that it might not for your daughter or some others. I see plenty of student posters on CC asking about how much money they can make in X or Y field as they contemplate what field to study. That question never arose for my children. So, that doesn’t make them happier necessarily, but simply the “interest” factor is all they are going by. </p>
<p>Let me add, that I have also seen plenty of parent posters who are not keen or should I say even discouraging of kids going into the arts because they feel they don’t pay well and are a very uncertain field. But as I have a child seeking such a field (musical theater), I also don’t have the same feelings about that either. I would never discourage this pursuit. I do recogninze how hard it is to make it and that it often doesn’t pay well or is not a regular job. However, let me say that already, even without a degree and at age 18, my child has various jobs related to her field where she has been paid extremely well. She has skills and services she can offer in her field and has been sought out for them and paid a lot even on an hourly basis or a job basis, as well as has created her own jobs that earn very good money, especially for someone so young. So, I am not worried. I realize other parents would be with a child who has chosen such a field. Whatever field my kids chose, I was fine with it. It makes me happy that they are happy to be studying what they love. I never felt I had to “approve” what they wish to study.</p>
<p>So, I am of the camp that is “follow your bliss.” But I don’t frown upon someone who wants to follow the money but I think even for someone who is following the money, they need to couple that with some bliss or else they will tire very easily from the job.</p>
<p>I guess I should have included that DD does have some exposure to what she thinks she wants now. She is working for an investment firm in our small (but wealthy) city for the second summer. She has spent several weeks “shadowing” at her unlce’s firm in NYC.</p>
<p>She is not much of a dreamer, she is the pragmatist of the family. She has a history of planning ahead and doing exactly what she said she was going to do. No pun, but I think she means business and I think she has the tools to go to a good business program and be successful.</p>
<p>I keep thinking of Amherst and Dartmouth (OK, OK and Smith and Vassar), they wouldn’t close too many doors either and may well keep her heart open to other ideas.</p>
<p>UCgradmary, I completed my M.A. from a seminary a year ago. Let’s say I took the loooooong route, turning a full-time two-year degree into a six-year venture, mostly because I chose to remain a full-time mom while doing so, and therefore had to take classes either at night (when they were younger) or when it fit into their busy schedules. I also lived 48 miles one-way from the seminary I was attending, so commuting became a major issue.</p>
<p>Back to your original question… I was in my early 40’s when I began, and I would say it was typical that I was in the middle range of ages of my classmates. Yes, there were some 22+, just out of college students, but there were just as many 40+, 50+ and 60+ second career people pursuing a theology degree. Many of the older ones (those with children out of the house) continued to work in their jobs while attending school.</p>
<p>Most of those second-career people were making the transition because they found little personal fulfillment in their current careers. For some, the change to ministry will lessen any sacrifices they’ve had to make to their families, and for some, they will have to make more sacrifices when they enter the ministry; frankly, a lot depends on how one is able to set boundaries in his/her job because the ministry can truly suck the life out of you if you let it.</p>
<p>And for some, the reality of having a post-graduate degree will automatically provide them with an increase in income, and for others who gave up the corporate world, they will take a cut in pay. </p>
<p>UCGradMary…it sounds like your D has a genuine interest in business and has done some work and had exposure to at least have some inkling that she MAY like it. If it also makes mulah, I guess she’ll be happy. I don’t really see a problem here.</p>
<p>However, I read a little other issue into your post. It sounds to me (correct me if I am wrong) that you’d rather her attend a liberal arts degree program, as opposed to a professional degree program as an undergrad. You’d like her to be exposed to many things and have many options and not be locked into a business degree from the get go at age 18. What you could do is explain to your D that she CAN go into the business world by doing a BA, followed by an MBA. That is a great path. Attending a business school as an undergrad is quite specialized and one really must commit to the field ahead of time. But perhaps she really is passionate about business and this is OK. But, she also should explore the BA plus MBA path and articulate to you why she wants the professional undergrad degree. You can articulate to her that she can reach her goal of a lucrative business career through the BA/MBA route as well and that she should have clear reasons why she prefers the other route (she may not truly understand the different educational paths).</p>
<p>Well, UCgradmary, your daughter is already 2 steps ahead on the suggestion I had – she has a good idea of what it would be like to work at an investment firm, and she still wants it.
Yep - my daughter’s the same way even though not so focused on money. My advice: nothing you could say or do will make a difference anyway, so sit back and watch it all happen. Given the difficulty of acceptance at Wharton, your d. obviously will be applying to a range of other schools next years – she probably will target well and have a good set of choices in the spring. She’d probably be bored and frustrated doing some of the things you wish for her – she’s a doer, not a dreamer, and she probably draws her sense of fulfillment from a sense of accomplishment, so a career where success can easily be measured in dollars might be exactly right for her. </p>
<p>I know how you feel – I guess I am a liberal do-gooder at heart who is very relieved that my kids are gravitating toward public service or nonprofit work, I’d probably feel embarrassed if I had to tell my left-leaning friends that any kid of mine wanted to go into I-banking… but it’s your kid’s life, and she sounds like she knows what she wants to do with it.</p>
<p>I can always count on DH to give me the truth whether I want it for not. He thinks that I take DDs interest in such an affluent lifestyle as commentary on the fact that we chose a less affluent lifestyle for them. She missed things her current group of friends…</p>
<p>Oh, and yes, I’m probably the one who would love 4 years at a small New England LAC…</p>