<p>Also, picking up on what Calmom was saying (we cross posted)…I imagine your D is a very good student with a profile that is suited to Wharton, but as you know, getting into Wharton involves difficult odds. With those tough odds, it is best to not pine away for one particular school. I imagine she has a list and I don’t know the list. But if she is a good student, some other fine possibilities are (not inclusive list here but thinking of ones for strong students)…</p>
<p>NYU (Stern)
USC (Marshall)
U of Michigan
MIT (Sloan)
Cornell
Emory (Goizuela)
Washington U in St. Louis (Olin)
UC-Berkeley (Haas)
Carnegie Mellon
Univ. of Texas-Austin (McCombs)
UVA (McIntire)
UNC-Chapel-Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
Boston College (Carroll)
Georgetown (McDonough)
College of William and Mary</p>
<p>BC would be a little bit of that New England small college thing and a business school. Obviously you aren’t the one going but I threw that in there for good measure.</p>
<p>The pragmatist in her would go to an ivy rather than a business program that doesn’t get as much top recruiter interest. She has a list, in order. She is a strong student but her weakest point is math (740 SAT) and that’s important to Wharton. I don’t mean to imply she’s bad at math (in case you’re reading this honey!) but so many of the Wharton applicants seem to be taking college math and she will just complete AP calc.</p>
<p>What it takes for a successful – both personally fullfilling and financially rewarding – career in business is often quite different from what a young person may anticipate.</p>
<p>A degree from a prestigious business program helps, but it’s not the end-all and be-all. Many, many CEO’s and Chairpersons graduated from LACs, BigU’s, or (gasp) didn’t graduate at all. </p>
<p>The common denominators are as I see it: drive, hard work, intellect, vision, amenity to risk taking. People skills help, but are not always apparent.</p>
<p>My advice to your daughter (as someone who’s done okay in business despite a determined lack of business education and a strong prediliction for the arts) is to follow the standard operating procedure on choosing colleges. If Penn fits, then it’s a good choice and will lead to success. If small New England LAC fits, then it’s a good choice and will lead to success.</p>
<p>A degree from Wharton or Sloane or any other name program may or may not lead to success. The downside is that many students become overly confident that a prestigious degree is an end in itself and do not develop their risk taking skills. </p>
<p>The best guidance you can give your daughter is to step outside of her comfort box. If she’s leaning toward Penn because she thinks it’s a “safe” (by that I mean reliable) route to business success and therefore wealth, she may be disappointed. If she embraces a business career with enthusiasm and intellectual drive, money will most likely follow.</p>
<p>Well, your post #22 would concern me. It sounds like your D is trying to figure out which school will be her best ticket to the best paying job. On the one hand she wants a B school like Wharton and on the other she’d take an Ivy over a B school that isn’t the most prestigious. But already those are two very different degree programs/experiences. Of course both can lead to success but it would seem to me that she should decide what kind of educational experience she wants…a BA (perhaps at some point followed by an MBA…maybe not, as some BAs are hired in the financial world), or an undergrad degree in a business program. But RATHER than be looking for the match of educational experience she wants, she is trying to figure out which name schools would be her best “ticket” to the well paying jobs. I think she can reach these well paying jobs from many paths/schools. I’d rather see her picking out the kind of school she would like. She either wants an undergrad B school or doesn’t. I think she is evaluating schools by which school, in her view, will get her to point X. Many schools can get her to point X. What kind of degree does she want for undergrad? That would be what I would focus on. Someone with drive and hard work can make it in business. Certain name schools are not her direct ticket. </p>
<p>By the way, a 740 in Math and taking AP Calculus and scoring a 4 or 5 will look good for most any college.</p>
<p>Wealth will come from saving and investing. Teach your D to “pay herself first” (put some of everything she earns into an interest bearing savings, to start). Even those who make modest incomes can convert their pay into wealth by investing wisely.</p>
<p>It seems like she “talks” about wanting money but isn’t really considering the return on investment of the money being put into her education. Obviously, if she can get into Wharton she should go there. However, in most cases State U would be a much better investment than the other schools you mentioned.</p>
<p>Guess I go against the prevailing thought on this thread…</p>
<p>Maybe money making is a sensible goal in this day and age, but for some reason, it just strikes me as sad to have this as a life goal. Making money while doing something you love, or that helps others, or benefits the world? Great. Making money just to make money and have huge houses or lots oft consumable “stuff” seems like a pretty worthless goal to <em>me</em> (and yes, I know lots of obscenely wealthy hedge fund managers).</p>
<p>My kids will just be poor starving artists, but I hope they will be happy. Oh, and I hope they like eating Ramen noodles.</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with wanting to make money, afterall we do live in capitalist country. However, I do have some reservations about being super focus on something at such a young age. For example, if someone said she would love to be a doctor, I would still have reservation about going the 6/7 year MD route, eventhough I know that route is a lot less hassle, no MCAT, etc… I would suggest completing a BA/BS before committing oneself to 4 years of medical school.</p>
<p>UCgradmary, I think that when people equate being rich with being shallow, they really dont know what it takes to earn a lot of money. To become a highly paid professional in ANY field takes skills, dedication, persistency and extremely hard work. If your daughter has what it takes to get into Wharton (arguably the most competitive undergrad school in the nation), to complete it with decent grades and to survive first several years in business (see post #6), kudos to her - she completely deserves to become rich because shed earn it.</p>
<p>Having said this, unless the person genially likes his job, he/she cant sustain the pressure to become and to remain a highly paid professional in any field. Same applies to running a business. The saying do what you love and the money will follow is absolutely true, but you must be very good at what you love and you must be willing to work very hard and make sacrifices - this is not for everyone, otherwise many more people would be rich. </p>
<p>I completely agree with conyat about keeping all options open in fact, this is almost my life motto. Once she acquires some skills, she can decide whats the best way to apply them, but, just like you, shell be able to adjust her income level to her liking at any time. </p>
<p>To me, money is extremely important in so many ways: it gives freedom of choice, security (both physical and financial), an opportunity to support the others, confidence in future (at least to some extent), more opportunities for better health, it makes it easier to stand for your principles and to make a difference all of these comes way before a lucrative life style that money provide. So, good luck to your D in her endeavors - it seems that she has everything else it takes to succeed.</p>
<p>Remember though, Allmusic, the OP said her daughter was interested in making money and then becoming active in art in some fashion. I think that is a little different goal than making money so that you can have more “consumable stuff”. I think most Americans have plenty of consumable stuff, regardless of income.</p>
<p>Also I appreciate Soozie’s point about her D, but her D sounds like she is very talented, and will be able to make a career of music, perhaps even an extremely lucrative career. I guess I’m speaking about people more like I was in college - I loved music with a passion, but had absolutely no talent, and very little skill except some singing, but had good training. It was obvious that I would never make a living at music, so I found valuable, worthwhile work that is also lucrative, and has allowed be to put music back into my life. I have never been financially able to quit what I do to pursue hobbies or passions, and I don’t particularly want that, but I can see now that it would not be a bad plan to become financially independent, then pursue a dream or a passion - a quite reasoned choice.</p>
<p>Thabnk you for all the comments! My thinking is right in there with most of yours.</p>
<p>Whether daughter can get into Wharton I don’t know. I do know that she would be successful there though, she has exceled in every tough learning environment she’s been in. Really, I think she’ll be successful in most anything because she is a driven hard worker.</p>
<p>I also do not have a problem with her strategy of going to a school that will get her in the door of the jobs she craves.</p>
<p>So I go back to my original question, how much to say? I guess my biggest issue is that I want to see her continued to be exposed to the arts and am most affraid that Wharton (she is applying for Huntsman, a dual program) will not give her the opportunity to take much outside of the program.</p>
<p>Life is too short for “what ifs”, at least in my opinion (I see others really don’t prescribe to the “follow your bliss” way of thinking and that’s fine).</p>
<p>I have seen far too many unhappy people, who made decisions based on what they thought they <em>should</em> do, as opposed to what they <em>wanted</em> to do. I guess I take the POV that you try your dream first, and come to reality if it doesn’t work out, not think that you can eventually come to it much later. It may not always be impossible to work on the dream later, but it sure can be harder.</p>
<p>These are the words of the Tufts University President Bacow addressing new freshman and parents last August. He was pointing out that it doesn’t matter what you start out majoring in…the majority of students change their minds. He then listed a dozen or so very famous grads who started out in very different major fields. For example, actor William Hurt was a Religious Studies major. The president of one of the major pharmaceutical companies was an English major.</p>
<p>Bluecroo, I fully expect my son to have multiple majors before he’s done. I think daughter is likely to stick with her current focus for the next 5 years.</p>
<p>Does anyone know if many kids leave Wharton?</p>
<p>“Rising senior DD has her focus on careers that pay a lot of money. This is not a value we tried to instill but we can see how we unwittingly created the monster.” </p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like a very focused and determined young woman. I think her choice is more a matter of her own personality rather than the “monster” you created. I think it’s wonderful that she has seen two sides of the same career–working in a clinic and in a private practice. </p>
<p>My son cares nothing about cars, houses, or clothes. He didn’t know what he wanted to study in college, or if he even wanted to go to college. He took some time off and is now is school, but is unsure what he wants to major in. He is very bright and enjoys philosphy and English. He is interested in politics and often speaks of the injustices of the government. I suggested he might want to become a lawyer. Well, his reaction was something along the lines that it’s not surprising that I would want him to be in some kind of lucrative, establishment-type job. I told him that I thought he should use his talents and fulfill his interests–public defender or lobbyist? We’ll see.</p>
<p>My daughter, on the other hand, wants to have a job that she enjoys that pays well. Money is important to her. Two kids from the same family, raised with the same values. One thinks we are too materialistic and the other thinks we don’t make enough money to do all of the things she’d like to do. </p>
<p>I think your daughter is doing what suits her personality. She sounds like a real go-getter. </p>
<p>Another thought-- today is so different from years ago. My dad was an engineer for 30 years. At one point in his life he wanted to go back to law school, but didn’t because there was not another person to support the family while he pursued his new passion. Fortunately, I was able to do this. I am in my second career. I loved my first one, but wanted to try something else and did.</p>
<p>Mary, I know many people – personally and by reputation – who are involved in the “arts” and also make plenty of money. Maybe less so in strictly creative careers but seven figure salaries are not uncommon art related jobs that focus on sales, marketing and administration. The “arts” and money are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Have you looked at the current salaries of top museum directors for example? </p>
<p>The direction that I would challenge is that an undergraduate business degree is the best route for those high paying arts positions. I’ve nothing against getting an MBA but I would think that for an art related career an art related undergraduate degree would be a better route.</p>
<p>After that an MBA, a law degree (or less so even architecture or a PhD) could take her into the big money realm (plus all those other attributes like drive, hard work, vision, risk, connections etc.).</p>
<p>What field of the arts appeals to her? Penn has a good art history department. A BA in art history plus an MBA from Penn (or many other prestigious schools) would open a lot of well-paying doors.</p>
<p>Thank you momrath, I couldn’t agree more. We started taking DD to art auctions (not that we could afford to buy much) a few years ago and sent her to shadow an art buyer and a senior exec at Sothebys met with her. In a way one discouraged her, pointing out that she was one of a few art historians she knew to have made it to her level. We’ve really tried to let her see the options. </p>
<p>In all of your comments and those of friends I see the need for me to back off. She does seem to have passion for what she’s pursuing. She has had good exposure. She’s level headed. I had 17 years to make decisions FOR her. I love her. She needs to take charge.</p>
<p>UCgradmary: I like the end of your last post. The more I live the more it feels to me that we do have the kernel of our destinies within us, that we don’t choose, that things choose us. And kids are, of course, more in tune with their destinies than we are.</p>
<p>That said, just for information sake, show your daughter studies that suggest that having money beyond meeting a fairly modest need level, isn’t what makes people happy. Even people who win the lottery big are only happier than they were before for six months. And find out if she is talking about lifestyle or numbers when money is the issue. As a college professor I raised my children myself, full-time, without nannies. I was able to take off four years without losing my job or my place in the food chain. Then they were ready for nursery school. How much money did this save? I was home every day when the school bus got here, also a savings. Summers I was here. They did programs for enrichment but we never needed help. I live in a beautiful house, not a mansion, not new, in a lovely town. Friends with high powered careers in NYC have homes in Hamptons they only go to on weekends that cost four times what my house does in addition to city apartments. My town has an excellent public schools; kids’ cousins go to private schools, which as you know since you send your kids, cost almost college tuitions. So, numbers don’t tell the entire story. </p>
<p>However, I certainly empathize with her enjoyment of new lifestyle. I think most kids and adults would. Money gives us options. So once she knows her options, she will find her destiny.</p>
<p>Other college thoughts for art/business connection: Tufts with museum curating joint degree and Williams, very strong art and economics programs and business connections.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s just me, but as more and more kids zero in on Wharton I think the kids who have something slightly different to offer will start to look very attractive to employers, even in business.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds wonderful. I’m sure she’ll find her way. Oh, I think 740 math is excellent as the strength of a vita let alone the weak point.</p>
<p>I think some of you that actually have money that are trumpeting the “do what makes you happy” line are blissfully unaware of what its like to not have money.</p>
<p>Whoever said “money can’t buy happiness” wasn’t poor. Money absolutely can buy happiness. In keeping with the law of diminishing marginal utility, at some point, more money wont equal more happiness. But I’d like to see the majority of you tell someone who’s REALLY struggling that more income to buy good healthcare, a couple well running vehicles, a house in a safe neighborhood, a good education etc, won’t make them any happier. I doubt you’d be able to keep a straight face.</p>