Hey guys, so I’ve been going through the process of applying to colleges in US as an international with financial aid, and so far I’ve been rejected by many schools except 2-3, not because my stats are bad, they are pretty good, but asking for aid kills all of my chances.
Now I have a couple of options. Earlham College in Indiana has accepted me with a significant aid package and I can go there and do a 3+2 SEAS program and transfer to Columbia for last 2 years with the guaranteed transfer program.
Another option is that I can go back to Turkey, since I am a Turkish citizen who completed his entire secondary education in US, I can enter top Turkish Universities such as Middle East Technical University or Bosphorus University without taking the central college entrance examination that every Turkish highschooler takes.
So what would you guys do? I am really conflicted about my options here, as I will definitely come back to US for graduate school where there is a lot more funding and plan to stay and work in US after that.
Only a good option if you can pay for 2 years at Columbia. Columbia cautions that financial aid for international 3+2 transfer students is extremely limited.
I would most likely need 30-35k in grants in order to attend. But I heard that they don’t consider you as transfer but as freshman application while giving aid, but I need to verify. Still, even if I studied at Earlham College, is a non-prestigious college in US is better than prestigious college in Turkey for job prospects and for grad school? As I plan to work in US.
Most certainly not. Columbia explicitly says that they don’t guarantee to meet the financial need of 3+2 applicants, but they do guarantee to meet the need of freshman applicants.
Grad school in what? A degree from a small liberal arts degree can make you a strong candidate for some PhD programs, because it’s much easier to get attention from faculty and the research experience that PhD programs are looking for.
That being said, your odds of becoming an engineer out of a liberal arts college, without money to pay for your graduate degree yourself, are slim-to-none. If you want to go into engineering specifically, you’re better off studying engineering in Turkey than liberal arts in the US.
With a liberal arts degree, your job prospects in the US are also slim-to-none right out of college. It’s non-trivial to sponsor an employee for a work visa and it’s just not worth the effort for a liberal arts graduate who needs to be trained. There’s plenty of American students who’d be happy to take a job that pays above-average wage (a requirement for the work visa) and provides all requisite training.
I’m in a similar situation. I’m a Turkish student accepted to Earlham and nowhere else (yet). It helps to realize that places like Bosphorus University, METU, Koç and Bilkent are feeders to top masters and PhD programs in the US, even more so than most liberal arts colleges. I arbitrarily determined a point of equivalency at around Colgate University. That is, it would be worth studying in the US if I get into my top choices up to Colgate (meaning I’d have to get into Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth,Amherst, Cornell or Middlebury).
Earlham’s financial aid package (15000$ cost remaining for us) makes it so the cost is the same as paying full fare at Koç or Bilkent. When you consider the relative success of the students in my intended field of study (economics) and the increasing USD/TL exchange rate, it makes a lot more sense to stay here for me.
What is your YGS ranking? Are you certain that you will be able to get into the engineering programs of our top schools?
@b@r!um I would most probably get an MBA, with scholarship from a Fulbright program or such. My interests do not lie on engineering per se, I just want the Columbia name on my resume and the alumni network. I plan on going to fields with cutthroat competition such as investment banking or asset management.
@burak96 I agree with that, I’m still waiting on Harvard and Yale, but they’re most likely definite rejections so I’m not keeping my hopes up.
Thing with the YGS ranking, I don’t have one. Since I’ve completed my highschool in US, I can just get into Turkish universities from international quota without taking YGS-LYS, which is a good thing. And again I also planned on majoring on Economics, but with the current predicament I am in, I am not sure which one would be better. Even for job prospects in Turkey, would they consider someone who studied in some unknown university in US in higher regard or someone from METU etc. I honestly don’t know.
Do PM me though, its nice to have someone to share ideas with who is in the same situation.
What is your current visa status here? Is there any chance you could study at in-state rates at the public universities in the state where you are living? That might be the best option of all.
If you are serious about wanting to eventually get a permanent job here, your best bet is probably to go the Turkish University to US post-grad route. The chance of finding an H1B (work) visa sponsor after completing the OPT following your graduate program is significantly better than if you just finish an undergrad degree here.
@happymomof1 thanks, thats probably what I will do, as I will also avoid paying 25k a year that I would’ve paid at US and can save up that money for my graduate school instead.
@EternityWarrior: An issue I see is that you completed your entire schooling in the US. As such, you don’t know what school in Turkey is like - and that can be very, very tough culturally. School in Turkey is nothing like school in the US, Turkey right now is nowhere near as free as the US, and universities are places where you go to sit/listen/take notes (the content is of the highest order, but you see that’s not quite what Americans mean by “college”.) The risk (encountered for real) is that you’ll realize within a year that you really don’t fit in at METU or Bilkent, but will be an international transfer with no chance of returning to the US on scholarship for undergrad and will have to keep your grades up, which for some is very very difficult when in an environment they don’t fit in or even (in some cases) felt as hostile.
Earlham is excellent if your goal is to get a PHD. If you want to get an MBA, you need 2-3 years work experience, and for that you don’t necessarily need engineering, CS is a good choice. Not sure Earlham is best for CS though.
Where else, beside Earlham, have you been admitted?
Like most international students who need financial aid, you always have the choice of doing a gap year and preparing a better strategy for your college application list.
Is there any chance you can become a permanent resident?
@MYOS1634 I only completed my highschool years in the US, so I am used to the environment and culture in Turkey. Opportunities created by METU far outweight the opportunities at Earlham College in my opinion. Top consulting firms such as Mckinsey and Deloitte do recruiting on campus, and even if they don’t, my family connections in Turkey would allow me to get an internship etc. with them as long as I study in a top Turkish University.
Even through my years of schooling in the US, I had turkish culture as a main part of my life, as we have 4 turkish students in my private school in US.
I also read some concerning things about Earlham’s administration and I am not sure what would the possible job prospects be for someone who needs H1B visa, as Earlham is a no-name school.
I was admitted at Union College, Hofstra University and Skidmore College, however their aid package is nowhere near what I need to attend. And I wish I could become a permanent resident, but that is not possible with the current immigration laws.
Earham IS NOT a “no-name” school, it’s a top producer of PHDs :). You’d get an OPT for 1 year, then get into a graduate program, then get an H1B, not before (it’s not possible to get an H1B directly from college due to the current immigration laws, which explains how Canada manages to poach many of the international CS and engineering majors as well as a variety of bilingual, educated international students. )
But your choice of terms indicates you don’t want to go to Earlham.
I understand that Turkish culture is part of who you are, that’s not what I was discussing.
A childhood in Turkey definitely doesn’t prepare you for what’s happened there in the past few years (not that you can really “see” it) - there are serious concerns about it veering from authoritarian democracy to non-democratic, especially after the dissenters’ repression and the increase in corruption levels. You may underestimate how much Turkey has changed (adults who return after a few years abroad are actually shocked by some developments).
It is true that I am really accustomed to the american culture now, and would prefer to not leave it. The problem that I have with that is I don’t want a Ph.D. My original plan was to get a B.S. in Economy, however I am not quite sure if I will be able to get through all the competition for finance fields coming from Earlham as my background, instead of target schools. And I’ve heard that school is super liberal and that people who pursue business are not very fitting to the culture. What is your opinion on that?
I was originally planning on SEAS program with Earlham, however the lack of financial aid from Columbia pushed me to think differently. And I’ve though of doing computer science in Earlham because of OPT extension for 17 months, and that I can go to business school to re-brand myself and then break into finance. I am still conflicted about my options.
What would my job prospects be if I graduated from Earlham, if I’m not planning on going through the academic route? I doubt Earlham has many alums in fields like investment banking, asset management etc.
And you talked about Canada, that could also be a possible place where I want to work, can I possibly get a job in Canada for after I graduate in Earlham? I am also good with sciences, would doing a double major in science/economics or just doing science would increase my chances of employment?
Another popular choice among international students without money is to apply to PhD programs, complete the first two years of the program while being fully funded, apply for jobs, and then drop out with a Master’s degree. PhD programs can be a cheap way to a Master’s degree, even if you don’t care about academia
Science majors are not particularly employable, with the single exception of computer science (which is classified as an engineering discipline at many universities with an engineering school).
The single best thing you can do in college to make yourself employable is to gather qualified work experience. Compete for prestigious summer internships, even if that means using your OPT before graduation. Volunteer for a charity (allowed on an F-1 visa, without need for touching your OPT) and work your way up to real duties. Approach different offices on campus about non-traditional “on-campus jobs”: maybe the budget office or the office of institutional research are willing to work with you.
Why are you so set on these tiny specialty occupations? You can do very similar work in “less prestigious” jobs. I’m a data analyst for Medicare and I make recommendations on how to manage their $500 billion budget. All without working for a fancy management consulting company.
b@rium, would you mind elaborating a little bit more on how that PhD thing works? I thought you needed a masters before you can get a phd? And how does funding for these programs for internationals work?
I also think I can get the work experience, but I heard that it is still really hard to get sponsored for H1B if you are not an engineer etc. I would be happy working as an engineer too instead of finance, are there any engineering related PhD’s that sponsor internationals?
Talking about the specialty occupations, what can I say they are my dream jobs. I would be perfectly content on having a less prestigious job or being an engineer, but personal goal that I set for myself is to make around 500k/year by the time I’m in my mid to late thirties, and these jobs look like places where I can accomplish that.
@b@r!um @happymomof1 @MYOS1634
Is it really difficult for an international student with undergraduate degree from a liberal arts college to seek employment here for H1B sponsor right out of school? What if the degree is in Economics, Mathematics or the sciences like what OP is choosing to do?
I am also an international student who got accepted to a great school in my home country and amazing LACs in the US. Should I just stay home for undergrad and do graduate studies in the US for a better chance of getting sponsored for work visa.
Funding for a PhD student at many schools is independent of being international or not. Generally, you get a stipend and tuition remission (free tuition), and you have to work at least 20 hours per week for the department either as a teaching assistant or research assistant, the latter if your adviser has grant money.
You do not need a MS before a PhD in the US.
As for making 500K per year by the time you are in your mid to late thirties, good luck with that. You either would have to start your own amazingly successful business or be very high in finance. There are people in their 30s who work 80 hours per week and are making 200K per year, but 500K is quite high generally without major connections.
Major connections that would be easier to make in NYC at Columbia than in Turkey, I’d think, based on comparing our financial industries and stock markets…
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